821 replies to this topic

[sotona]

I think those more complex requests might fit with gemrb better.

yes, they probably are. I'll post it on the gemrb forum then it's up and running again.

BTW sotona, i'm trying to do something similar to your altered knock spells, but essentially for all non-modal thief skills.

http://www.shsforums...s-in-characters

I want to more or less replace thieves (almost) completely.

well, good luck to you! the altered knock came to existence just because i hated to drag along the rogue just to be able to disarm some stupid traps. the well-trained mage should be able to do it himself with his spells. heck, he should be able to do almost anything.

[i30817]

Edit: this request is useless, see next post.

Still wont be able to do the quests that check for thieves class. Class is my most hated D&Dism, right after alignment.

Ascension64 I don't supposed you'd accept a request for a simple new action?

ModuleGlobalIncrement(String, Type, Int (or unsigned int) ).
variable set to + 1 modulus of the int.

Why? Because if you want to do a cycle of settings by hotkey in scripts, say:

Spoiler

	IF
                Hotkey(F)
	Global("bla","LOCALS",0)
	THEN
		RESPONSE #100
	SetGlobal("bla","LOCALS",1)
	END
	IF
        Hotkey(F)
	Global("bla","LOCALS",1)
	THEN
		RESPONSE #100		 SetGlobal("bla","LOCALS",2)
	END
	IF
                Hotkey(F)
	Global("bla","LOCALS",2)
	THEN
		RESPONSE #100		 SetGlobal("blah","LOCALS",0)
	END

All (must) have the same conditions.

The point is that the script should continue after setting the flag, to do whatever the flag is supposed to do in this round.
However, letting it continue would fuck up the flag.

A elegant solution would be:

	IF
                Hotkey(F)
	THEN
		RESPONSE #100
		ModuleGlobalIncrement("bla","LOCALS",3) //0, 1 or 2 range
                Continue()
	END

Though maybe a even better solution would be a HotkeyClear() action, since that would allow displaying option specific things in the response. Though maybe that is risky if you don't know what is going to run next...
On second thought, HotkeyClear() is a bad idea.

Edited by i30817, 06 November 2011 - 07:52 AM.

[i30817]

Found a silly (and easy) alternative to the above

        IF
        HotKey(~M_KEY~)
        THEN
        RESPONSE #100
        IncrementGlobal("gt#thief_scout","LOCALS",1)
        Continue()
        END

        IF
          GlobalGT("gt#thief_scout","LOCALS",2)
        THEN
        RESPONSE #100
          SetGlobal("gt#thief_scout","LOCALS",0)
          Continue()
        END

Request rescinded!

Edited by i30817, 05 November 2011 - 04:44 PM.

[10th]

It's true that thieves skills beyond 100 are useless?

No.

Stealing difficulty in stores gets sustracted from your pick pocket skill value. Take Bernard.sto for example, stealing difficulty of 128 substracted from your pick pocket skill value. Which means, that you'd need at least 228 to steal with 99% success, 100% is impossible as there's always a 1% failure chance.

Same goes for items changed by item revision's allow thieving skills in armor and similar components.

10th

[i30817]

Ah, ok. Stealing in shops is hardcoded to the engine by class, so it won't be in my mod though (unless Ascension64 does some magic )

Edited by i30817, 04 November 2011 - 06:04 PM.

[i30817]

Another terrible idea for TobEx.

Edit: removed useless request;



Totally missed
SetTokenGlobal(S:GLOBAL*,S:Area*,S:Token*)





But here are some other action requests i'd like:
Even with the set token, there is no actual way of setting a dynamic value there.

For instance, I want to put in the value of the LOCKPICK skill in a token? There is no function that returns stats (there don't seem to be any returns at all in bg script).

Sooo... I think it's still needed to go the WeiDU route of generating lots of strings, and a huge state machine, just to display a string because of the possible ranges, just because some CRE values can't be put in the globals. That would be a nice action.

SetGlobalFromStat(S:Name*,S:Area*,S:Object*,I:StatNum*Stats)
And maybe (but not necessary)
SetTokenFromStat(S:Token*,S:Object*,I:StatNum*Stats)


Naturally, i want the above to be able to compare them directly without writing out a slow state machine. So maybe:
CheckStatLT(O:Object*,S:Name*,S:Area, I:StatNum*Stats)
CheckStatGT(O:Object*,S:Name*,S:Area, I:StatNum*Stats)
CheckStat(O:Object*,S:Name*,S:Area, I:StatNum*Stats)
Would be better

Naturally, on the write side, a "SetStatFromGlobal(I:StatNum*Stats,S:Object*,S:Area*,S:Name*)"
"IncrementStatFromGlobal(I:StatNum*Stats,S:Object*,S:Area*,S:Name*)"
would be nice too, instead of using effects.

Being able to call effects in dialog would be cool though.
MultiplyGlobals(S:Name*, S:Name*) would be nice too (like AddGlobals).

If you decide to do this, you can ditch the S:Area* and only use globals since these are transitory operations. If the value must be stored into private space, you could do a
CopyGlobal(S:Name*, S:Area*, S:Name*, S:Area*) to transfer to one namespace, do something there, and back, since bioware for some reason decided to make LOCALS and AREA read/setonce only.

I'd like a opcode to enable/disable the level up button like the others. The ChangeClass command seems useless for the party without it (but that's a personal idea that might not even work).


If i'm not missing anything else.

Edited by i30817, 14 November 2011 - 03:52 PM.

[Sasha Al'Therin]

It's true that thieves skills beyond 100 are useless?

No.

Stealing difficulty in stores gets sustracted from your pick pocket skill value. Take Bernard.sto for example, stealing difficulty of 128 substracted from your pick pocket skill value. Which means, that you'd need at least 228 to steal with 99% success, 100% is impossible as there's always a 1% failure chance.

Same goes for items changed by item revision's allow thieving skills in armor and similar components.

10th

I was under the impression that you needed to just be +1 over in order to have any chance of being successful. and in either case the example you give means that bards will NEVER be able to steal from that store since their default pickpocket caps at 100... which lends one to believe that the stat value is in % and even thieves when leveling up have their skills displayed as %. Are you sure that the store in your example can be stolen from? Have you done it? Can you even reach that many points without cheating? I'm more inclined to believe that the stores with a difficulty of 100 or 128 (most of which are the many bags/containers) are not meant to be stolen from. Just like containers that can't be unlocked have a difficulty of 100. The stat skill has to be a % with 100 as max. anything over doesn't make sense....

[Dakk]

you'd need at least 228 to steal with 99% success

Can you even reach that many points without cheating?

Discounting being an elf, half-elf or halfling, and also the DEX-bonus (all of which makes this easier) - reaching 228 is not even hard. As a basic thief you start with 40 points, and get 25 per level. So you need to be what, a level 7 thief? Of course, that thief wouldn't have points in anything else, but you can do the math.

Edited by Dakk, 07 November 2011 - 08:53 AM.

[i30817]

Edit: removed the drama, requests are above.

Edited by i30817, 13 November 2011 - 12:27 PM.

[The Cow King]

Would it be possible to make "Launchers with No Ammo" component optional during ToBEx install, instead of automatically installing it with the core ToBEx fixes?

The reasoning behind this, is that without the ammo "exploit", no bow (or crossbow) can compete with Tuigan's bow, which I consider a bit silly, seeing Tuigan is a +1 bow found right out of chateau irenicus. With the ammo stacking exploit, Gesen Bow and Firetooth at least become viable alternatives vs. Tuigan, even though they're still behind (slightly).

Here's the math for average damage WITH ammo exploit, using level 34 Archer as an example (with Gauntlets of Extraordinary Specialization and ***** in corresponding weapon proficiency), comparing Tuigan vs. Firetooth and Gesen bow.

Tuigan's Bow with Improved Haste & Critical Strike = 10 APR: [+3.5 (arrow) +1 (Tuigan bonus) +9 (archer bonus) +4 (proficiency bonus) +2 (gauntlets)]x2 x10 = 390 average dmg per round.

Gesen Bow with Improved Haste & Critical Strike = 8 APR: [+2 (Gesen base) +3.5 (extra arrow) +9 (archer bonus) +4 (proficiency bonus) +2 (gauntlets)]x2 x8 +4.5x8 (Gesen's electrical dmg) = 364 average dmg per round. As you can see, even with ammo stacking, it still falls behind Tuigan.

Firetooth +5 with Greater Whirlwind = 10 APR: [+4.5 (Firetooth base] +4.5 (extra bolt) +5 (Firetooth enchantment) +2 (Firetooth fire damage) +9 (archer bonus) +4 (proficiency bonus) +2 (gauntlets)]x10 = 310 average dmg per round. Damage can increase with Bolts of Lightning, or critical hits, but still falls behind Tuigan on average.

Here's the math for average damage WITHOUT ammo exploit, as you can very well see, every missile weapon falls light years behind Tuigan +1, even though they're ancient artifacts in comparison.

Tuigan's 390 average damage remains the same.

Gesen Bow with Improved Haste & Critical Strike = 8 APR: [+2 (Gesen base) +9 (archer bonus) +4 (proficiency bonus) +2 (gauntlets)]x2 x8 +4.5x8 (Gesen's electrical dmg) = 308 average damage per round.

Firetooth +5 with Greater Whirlwind = 10 APR: [+4.5 (Firetooth base] +5 (Firetooth enchantment) +2 (Firetooth fire damage) +9 (archer bonus) +4 (proficiency bonus) +2 (gauntlets)]x10 = 265 average dmg per round.

Without the ammo exploit, Gesen Bow and Firetooth +5 are simply obsolete in comparison to a +1 short bow found in the back room of the Copper Coronet. It would be better to keep this component as an optional install, seeing many players would probably prefer to keep the launcher ammo bug, in order to have viable alternatives vs. Tuigan. Besides, ranged weapons are extremely weak in comparison to melee weapons anyway, which further makes this bug preferable.

Edited by The Cow King, 13 November 2011 - 01:34 PM.

[i30817]

Why don't you just do that on your own install?

[The Cow King]

Why don't you just do that on your own install?

I don't know how to, it's not very wise to assume that every person using IE mods knows how to alter the installation options.

Edited by The Cow King, 13 November 2011 - 01:17 PM.

[Isaya]

The Cow King, where in your math do you take into account that of 8 or 10 attacks, a +3 or +5 weapon will increase your chance to hit, compared to a +1?
If you fight a creature that requires 17 or more to hit with the +1 weapon, you can hit starting from 13 with the +5, so you double your chances to hit. In my example, you will only 20% of the time with the +1 weapon, and 40% with the +5. You'll get higher damages with the +5 weapon in that case.

[i30817]

Go to the TobEx_ini folder and there are some files there with the runtime options. In your case, that would be TobEx_ini\TobExCore.ini
Remove Projectile Mod=1
set to 0

[The Cow King]

The Cow King, where in your math do you take into account that of 8 or 10 attacks, a +3 or +5 weapon will increase your chance to hit, compared to a +1?
If you fight a creature that requires 17 or more to hit with the +1 weapon, you can hit starting from 13 with the +5, so you double your chances to hit. In my example, you will only 20% of the time with the +1 weapon, and 40% with the +5. You'll get higher damages with the +5 weapon in that case.

Critical Strike = automatic hits.

Tuigan with Quiver of plenty +2 gives +3 thac0 total. That's -3 with a thac0 capped fighter. -5 with ***** with the weapon in question. -7 with 18 dex. -8 with Gauntlets. -9 with Helm of Balduran. -12 with Gesen. -2x if the person using it is an archer.

Thac0 is simply irrelevant, unless we're talking about some kind of mod introduced super AC monsters that you have to fight against in mass numbers.

Go to the TobEx_ini folder and there are some files there with the runtime options. In your case, that would be TobEx_ini\TobExCore.ini
Remove Projectile Mod=1
set to 0

Actually, after reading through the TobEx_ini, it's Non-Ammo Launcher Damage Fix=0.

Btw I honestly think TobEx is like the best mod for BG2 along with G3 Fixpack and widescreen mod, should be like a core component of G3 fixpack tbh.

Edited by The Cow King, 13 November 2011 - 02:40 PM.

[GeN1e]

It's true that thieves skills beyond 100 are useless?

Never tested it, but I thought that difficulty of 100% is hardcoded, while anything else, lower or higher, can be picked with sufficient skill. Of course, there has to be a door with >100% lock found ingame, but that's a matter of modding it in.

Setting traps - take a look at this.

[Daulmakan]

It's true that thieves skills beyond 100 are useless?

Never tested it, but I thought that difficulty of 100% is hardcoded, while anything else, lower or higher, can be picked with sufficient skill. Of course, there has to be a door with >100% lock found ingame, but that's a matter of modding it in.

IIRC, vanilla Neb's portrait trap had a difficulty rating way above 100.

[GeN1e]

The reasoning behind this, is that without the ammo "exploit", no bow (or crossbow) can compete with Tuigan's bow, which I consider a bit silly, seeing Tuigan is a +1 bow found right out of chateau irenicus. With the ammo stacking exploit, Gesen Bow and Firetooth at least become viable alternatives vs. Tuigan, even though they're still behind (slightly).

I must point out that you're setting arguments to extreme values here.
The archer bonus is the first thing to go - I don't think you can find a 34th archer early in game, and if you do play this kit, then it is obvious that he benefits from higher ApR more than any other character does, else what's the point? Gauntlets belong here as well - if you don't want a fighter to wear them, then why be surprised they work as intended?
The second thing is the critical double - by the time to can use it more than 1-2/day, every opponent is wearing headgear since long before.

[The Cow King]

The archer bonus is the first thing to go

The reason I used Archer in the example, is because without ammo stacking, using ranged weapons as primary instead of secondary (without being an Archer) is completely useless in comparison to melee to begin with.

If you use ranged weapons as secondary, well, you probably end up using them once every 20 days of game time (for the occasional dispel magic), seeing they are completely overshadowed by melee weapons.

Gauntlets belong here as well - if you don't want a fighter to wear them, then why be surprised they work as intended?

Tuigan > Gesen whether you use the gauntlets or not (again, without ammo stacking).

The second thing is the critical double - by the time to can use it more than 1-2/day, every opponent is wearing headgear since long before.

If the enemy is using headgear, using ranged weapons without the Archer bonus (or ammo stacking) is pointless in comparison to 2h or dual-wield, which do more damage, and have devastating on-hit effects. The only exception to this is an Assassin with poison weapon, or a Kensai using throwing weapons.

The only way to keep ranged weapons from falling light years behind melee, is by either being an Archer, or with ammo stacking.

If you are an Archer, you still want ammo stacking to have other alternatives to Tuigan (at least I would).

Edited by The Cow King, 14 November 2011 - 07:57 AM.