29 replies to this topic

[Fennek]

Can anybody tell me if BP-Ascension is, if installed without BP-AI, compatible with SCSII and SCSII-Ascension related components? It does, if I understood it right, not need the BP-AI component, doesn't it?
And if yes, is the same true for the optional components? They also do not need the BP-AI component, do they? And SCSII should be able to patch without problems those optional components which are installed with its own Ascension related AI (while failing to do so if the Ascension component is not instlled), or did I get something wrong here?
So, is it all the same as it was with the old Ascension?

(I actually tried - without using BWP-Fixpack and BG2-Fixpack) to install all this stuff. I could, however, not install Smarter Mages because of errors with ipolt0 ... .itm (there are, as I have seen, several of these items and they come from BP).

Edited by Fennek, 08 December 2010 - 08:13 AM.

[Miloch]

Can anybody tell me if BP-Ascension is, if installed without BP-AI, compatible with SCSII and SCSII-Ascension related components? It does, if I understood it right, not need the BP-AI component, doesn't it?
And if yes, is the same true for the optional components?

It does not require the main component as far as I can tell. Turambar is or was working on making the other optional components independent.

And SCSII should be able to patch without problems those optional components which are installed with its own Ascension related AI (while failing to do so if the Ascension component is not instlled), or did I get something wrong here?

This is more of an SCS2 question, as I don't know how it handles patching modded resources. If they're also vanilla game resources, it should work in theory.

So, is it all the same as it was with the old Ascension?

No idea. Someone would have to install each version on two different (otherwise unmodded) games and run a diff or something like that to be sure.

(I actually tried - without using BWP-Fixpack and BG2-Fixpack) to install all this stuff. I could, however, not install Smarter Mages because of errors with ipolt0 ... .itm (there are, as I have seen, several of these items and they come from BP).

No, they are vanilla game resources that are messed up if you don't have the Fixpack installed. BP probably used to overwrite them to correct this but does not anymore AFAICT, probably because the Fixpack handles them better by patching. If you're getting a BP error, post it here. We can probably include the Fixpack's patching code to account for installs that don't use the Fixpack (or just skip patching those items, as I don't think they're used).

[Fennek]

I tried it again, this time with the fixpack etc. I could install all BP-Ascension componenten together with the SCS-Ascension related components. However, for example Illasera's henchmen (Black Talons) did not get SCS-AI (and the AI-script of the cleric was totally messed up, causing him to stand around without doing anything).

I thought that on should / could install the SCS-AI for Illasera, Yaga-Shura etc. only if one had installed the additional components from Ascension (since otherwise SCS general AI and SCS mage Ai take care of Illarsera and Yaga-Shura, skipping Yaga-Shura and Illasera AI components). If this is true (and I'm quite sure it is true), BP-Ascension additional components (at least Illasera component) cause some problems, at least for SCS.

[Miloch]

Can you post the .cre names of those creatures you think are messed up. Something for Turambar to look into .

If you're saying the CREs aren't getting the SCS2 AI (and should be) then obviously that'd be something SCS2 would have to handle. The best we could do is make sure if BP-Ascension is installed independently from the main component of BP, that they have some sort of AI at least.

[Fennek]

Well, to be honest I have no idea if SCSII changes the AI, but if it doesn't, what is it doing instead? It's certainly not adding new enemies.

Here's a changelog on the cleric:

[WeiDU.exe] WeiDU version 22400
[WeiDU.exe] Using scripting style "BG2"
override/zilarc01.cre
override/ZILARC01.CRE BPv180/BACKUP/19/ZILARC01.CRE

Mods affecting ZILARC01.CRE:
00000: /* from game biffs */ ~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ 0 0 // BG2 Fixpack - Core Fixes: v9.01
00001: ~SETUP-BPV180.TP2~ 0 19 // Improved Illasera: v180a BWP Fix

He was not affected by SCSII, what might mean that SCSII dod not recognize him or that it did not touch him at all, meaning that he actually comes with a broken script.

Anyway, the guys are the Black Reavers (just noticed I wrote Black Talons above... wrong part of the game... ):
ZILARC01 (cleric with broken script)
ZILFGT01
ZILFGT02
ZILMAG01

I've also posted at G3 and hope to get an answer from DavidW regarding the SCSII components.

Edit: Here's also an old changelog on the cleric when BP-Ascension was not yet split into parts (where he was affected by SCSII):

[WeiDU.exe] WeiDU version 21700
[WeiDU.exe] Using scripting style "BG2"
override/zilarc01.cre
override/ZILARC01.CRE BPv179/BACKUP/15/ZILARC01.CRE
override/ZILARC01.CRE scs/backup/5024/ZILARC01.CRE
override/ZILARC01.cre scsII/backup/6180/ZILARC01.cre
override/ZILARC01.CRE BG2_Tweaks/backup/3020/ZILARC01.CRE
override/ZILARC01.CRE xpmod/backup/0/ZILARC01.CRE
override/ZILARC01.CRE aurora/backup/0/ZILARC01.CRE
override/zilarc01.cre aurora/backup/470/zilarc01.cre
override/zilarc01.cre infinityanimations/backup/8000/zilarc01.cre

Mods affecting ZILARC01.CRE:
00000: /* from game biffs */ ~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ 0 0 // BG2 Fixpack - Core Fixes: v9.01 BWP Fix
00001: ~SETUP-BPV179.TP2~ 0 15 // Ascension for BP
00002: ~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ 0 5024 // Potions for NPCs -> Three quarters of the potions dropped by slain enemies break and are lost: v14 BWP Fix
00003: ~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ 0 6180 // Smarter Priests -> Priests cast some short-duration spells instantly at start of combat, to simulate pre-battle casting: v13 BWP Fix
00004: ~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ 0 3020 // Identify All Items: v9
00005: ~SETUP-XPMOD.TP2~ 0 0 // Creature XP Reduction -> Reduce to 75%: v6 BWP Fix
00006: ~AURORA/SETUP-AURORA.TP2~ 0 0 // Aurora's Shoes and Boots: v5 BWP Fix
00007: ~AURORA/SETUP-AURORA.TP2~ 0 470 // Change creature gold carried -> Reduce to 50% (recommended): v5 BWP Fix
00008: ~INFINITYANIMATIONS/SETUP-INFINITYANIMATIONS.TP2~ 0 8000 // BG1 Animations for NPCs -> 25% of relevant creatures: v5

Edited by Fennek, 13 December 2010 - 04:04 AM.

[Miloch]

Well, to be honest I have no idea if SCSII changes the AI, but if it doesn't, what is it doing instead?

I don't know either, but I'm pretty sure it doesn't assign new scripts to every creature in the game. Typically, it replaces vanilla scripts with its own versions. But in this case, the creature (zilarc01) has a custom script (carch20b) so I'm not sure if that's handled by SCS2. But it should be "smart enough" of an AI without it. Maybe BP overwrote it with a blank script or something? Check the default script slot on your .cre file.

[Fennek]

The default script is GPHEAL.bcs and in grey, meaning that it is broken, I guess (since the guy doesn't do anything, that should be the explanation).

Other scripts:
Class Script GRPSHT01
Override ILLAGRP

[Miloch]

The main problem is that BP still overwrites some creatures in the subcomponents.

COPY ~BPv180/ASCEND/TOUGH/ILLA/COPY/ILLASERA.CRE~ ~override/ILLASERA.CRE~

COPY ~BPv180/ASCEND/TOUGH/ILLA/COPY/ZILARC01.CRE~ ~override/ZILARC01.CRE~

COPY ~BPv180/ASCEND/TOUGH/ILLA/COPY/ZILFGT01.CRE~ ~override/ZILFGT01.CRE~

COPY ~BPv180/ASCEND/TOUGH/ILLA/COPY/ZILFGT02.CRE~ ~override/ZILFGT02.CRE~

COPY ~BPv180/ASCEND/TOUGH/ILLA/COPY/zilmag01.CRE~ ~override/zilmag01.CRE~

In this case, the overwrite wipes the combat script from the CRE for some reason. It should be patching the CREs instead. I've done this for the main component but haven't got to the subcomponents yet (Turambar was helping but probably got fed up with the sheer volume of work to do here ).

[Fennek]

Actually, that's funny. Well, take your time then and hopefully Turambar will still help you.

[Turambar]

Turambar was helping but probably got fed up with the sheer volume of work to do here

Actually, that's funny. Well, take your time then and hopefully Turambar will still help you.

I've already corrected something like that in other components and I'll correct this as well.
I have really little time to work on that now, but I hope I'll be able to do something more during the holidays. Has anyone modified any other component, in the meantime?

[horred the plague]

That was always the problem with BP and Weidu. The sheer amount of work put into conversion was staggering. It's a shame when the old-school manual GUI modding process is quicker and easier than automation, but that's the size of it when looking at the sheer volume of material here. Definitely gotta tip my hat to these two, Miloch and Turumbar, for taking over such a huge task.

I just did an install recently w/ the BWP, and had an issue pop up. When choosing the "AI" option, my stats.ids entries were hosed and I got a bunch of empty stat checks---CheckStat(Myself,0,0) and so on--in all the BP component scripts. "BI" was fine on the install. This could possibly what's happening to you, as well. I also had to remove the defunct tooltip.2da code as well (with the 'int of string' error, from some previous mod's influence) before BP main component would install. Maybe you had this happen too, or something very similar?

[Miloch]

I hope I'll be able to do something more during the holidays. Has anyone modified any other component, in the meantime?

I don't think so. I'll make it a goal to finish the main component by next year, if you finish all the subcomponents. Sound fair?

Edit: oh and I've got some automatic CRE-patching code, so that is the easy part (it's the scripts and spells that are hanging me up). I can post it if you want, or just run the patcher for the remaining CREs.

Edited by Miloch, 15 December 2010 - 01:59 PM.

[Hoppy]

I also had to remove the defunct tooltip.2da code as well (with the 'int of string' error, from some previous mod's influence) before BP main component would install. Maybe you had this happen too, or something very similar?

The Darkest Day, Check the Bodies and Region of Terror were/are messing up the tooltip.2da, only RoT does now but the old code was a ruse to get WeiDU to install the mods (Apparent in BP, TDD, CtB, RoT and probably more). I applied modified fixes in TDD 1.13+ and CtB1.12+ and will update Region of Terror soon but may-hap this was the issue?

Edited by Hoppy, 15 December 2010 - 05:05 PM.

[Turambar]

The Darkest Day, Check the Bodies and Region of Terror were/are messing up the tooltip.2da, only RoT does now but the old code was a ruse to get WeiDU to install the mods (Apparent in BP, TDD, CtB, RoT and probably more). I applied modified fixes in TDD 1.13+ and CtB1.12+ and will update Region of Terror soon but may-hap this was the issue?

Another mod which messed up tooltip.2da was Item revisions. There's a fix which prevents that but no new version

[Hoppy]

The Darkest Day, Check the Bodies and Region of Terror were/are messing up the tooltip.2da, only RoT does now but the old code was a ruse to get WeiDU to install the mods (Apparent in BP, TDD, CtB, RoT and probably more). I applied modified fixes in TDD 1.13+ and CtB1.12+ and will update Region of Terror soon but may-hap this was the issue?

Another mod which messed up tooltip.2da was Item revisions. There's a fix which prevents that but no new version

Well he might have been trying to make up for the old errors with TDD and CtB but RoT and maybe BP are trying to do the old workaround so the 2da gets trashed to the point that BP can't decipher it.

Dunno if BP has been updated to use this code but TDD and CTB are flawless with it. I had to check RoT a second time and sure enough, it uses the old code so it is fixed now in my TP2. I just put the block after all writing to the Tooltip.2da is complete.

http://www.shsforums...post__p__482796

[Miloch]

I just did an install recently w/ the BWP, and had an issue pop up. When choosing the "AI" option, my stats.ids entries were hosed and I got a bunch of empty stat checks---CheckStat(Myself,0,0) and so on--in all the BP component scripts. "BI" was fine on the install. This could possibly what's happening to you, as well. I also had to remove the defunct tooltip.2da code as well (with the 'int of string' error, from some previous mod's influence) before BP main component would install. Maybe you had this happen too, or something very similar?

Might want to do a weidu --change-log stats.ids from the command prompt to see which mod hosed it. It is fine on my BWP "Expert" install, though I don't have BP installed (yet, because I'm working on it). Maybe we need to use the newer Detectable Spells code (revised by DavidW as used in both SCSes) and also the tooltip.2da fix while we're at it.

In other news, I ran the CRE patcher on all the optional components. There aren't many CREs needed to patch in them until we get to Ascension and the "Tougher" components, then there's some major patching necessary. I think the only other thing I found was in here:

BEGIN @396 //Improved Kangaxx Encounter by Kensai Ryu

COPY_EXISTING ~hldemi.cre~ ~override~
  ADD_CRE_ITEM ~vampreg1~ #0 #0 #0 ~NONE~ ~AMULET~
BUT_ONLY

That was the only apparent change to that CRE. The other CREs in that component can just be COPYied, as they don't exist in the vanilla game (that also goes for the other optional components also I haven't mentioned).

[horred the plague]

I made the 2da fixes manually, and I did have RoT installed (haven't gotten to play it yet, in all these years). So Hoppy may be right, that this was the cause. It's actually an added fourth entry column causing the problem, I'd wager. Even the column headers were mixed up.

If there's good code for patching this 2DA freely available, by all means we should slap it in the BP as well.

EDIT: That reminded me too--in all my work on the BP Series scripts, I forgot to get the actual "BP Items" added into the code. How silly of me. I might have a small update for these scripts, for this and a couple other things I've noticed, in the near future.

Edited by horred the plague, 20 December 2010 - 10:51 AM.

[Ithildur]

Wow... sounds like BP is a bit of a mess... It sounds like a mod that I really want to like/try out, but after reading this... I think not, especially as I always use SCSII.

After looking at various threads related to BP, BPAscension, and SCSII, it looks like the way to go in order to play Ascension with SCSII AI/improvements reliably is to use Weidu Ascension. Rather sad, but various posts I've checked seem to support this thought.

Looking forward to an update to BP Ascension that doesn't overwrite files and will play nice with SCSII... someday.


Oh, and someone needs to update BWP to honestly reflect that BP/BP Ascension and SCSII don't play well together.

Edited by Ithildur, 01 August 2011 - 05:52 PM.

[Miloch]

Oh, and someone needs to update BWP to honestly reflect that BP/BP Ascension and SCSII don't play well together.

That is really just speculation - many people have installed both BP and SCS2 and have said they work together just fine (Chev has for example).

[Ithildur]

Well, DavidW seems to have a less optimistic view on that... regardless, from various posts I've seen, it does seem confirmed that BP Ascension without BP Core will not work, with or without SCSII added. What I understand is that BP Ascension adds/overwrites Ascension creatures with it's own versions that look to use BP core AI scripts, and since SCS replaces only the vanilla scripts, the result will be creatures that stand around with no scripts at all. So the only option currently is to install BP core as well, and hope that it doesn't mess with SCS too badly...