141 replies to this topic

[Hoppy]

So it could be done, right? I sense a certain resistance to change on the part of you and DavidW, understandable to some extent since your mods are already coded with markers, but that shouldn't stop other modders from using a new cruftless technique going forward.

DW is resistant to change because he is afraid of introducing bugs (a commendable way to act, IMHO). I'm resistant to change because I have to implement it (and I'd rather implement mods that makes the game better and/or make it easier to write mods, rather than optimize 1% of a problem).

Amen on both counts

[Miloch]

MII doesn't support component names currently, but might do so in 221 (if somebody can think of a credible way to handle translations).

English-only. If the mod doesn't support English, it should automatically fail.

In practice, just parse the first .tra file? Which is typically English, but I don't care if it's German or Swahili, as long as there's a text label of some sort. Whatever's easiest (though for you, that would probably be 'not implementing it' ). It's only something a modder would ever use or see, so it doesn't really matter what the label is.

Now I suppose some bonehead could add a new translation before the first listed one, but we can't account for all types of boneheadery, can we...

[Jarno Mikkola]

MII doesn't support component names currently, but might do so in 221 (if somebody can think of a credible way to handle translations).

English-only. If the mod doesn't support English, it should automatically fail.

In practice, just parse the first .tra file? Which is typically English, but I don't care if it's German or Swahili, as long as there's a text label of some sort. ...

boneheadery, can we...

Tra files? The label is in the WeiDu.log, why the cheese not read that file ?
OK, I know nothing of this...

[DavidWallace]

(The WEIDU documentation (dating back to Weimer; this is well before TheBigg took over) implies otherwise.)

Actually, since you tried to nitpick, MOD_IS_INSTALLED is a BiggFeature, not a WeiFeature

I stand corrected.

MII doesn't support component names currently, but might do so in 221 (if somebody can think of a credible way to handle translations).

Not only is there no need to support translations, there's an active reason not to: I don't want to have to change my component-identification code when I tweak the name of a mod component. What's needed is a way to refer to a component that's independent of any specific contingent feature of it (be that number or name).

Theoretically (by which I mean that I'm not convinced this is worth your time) I think the cleanest way to do it is to add a LABEL [string] command, functioning like DESIGNATED, and to be able to identify a component's label by something like MOD_IS_INSTALLED_LABEL Mymod Mycomponent; that in turn, I guess, requires storing the label in weidu.log along with component number and title.

[the bigg]

Theoretically (by which I mean that I'm not convinced this is worth your time) I think the cleanest way to do it is to add a LABEL [string] command, functioning like DESIGNATED, and to be able to identify a component's label by something like MOD_IS_INSTALLED_LABEL Mymod Mycomponent; that in turn, I guess, requires storing the label in weidu.log along with component number and title.

LABEL makes more sense than using the component name, actually.

[dabus]

So what's the quintessence now for the BWP/BWS?

The empty_override removes some files and ...
... some of them are mod-files (bad - breaks mod/game)
... some are markers (bad if user wants to adjust install later)
... some really are leftovers.

As far as I understand the last few pages, the game loads as fast as ever if useless files are left in there, because there are not that many nor big files and maybe the engine just skips them.

If that's correct, the only effect that this batch has in a best case scenario is to remove files from a folder that no normal user will have a look at and save some space that a mediocre website will take if you open it.

So if the effect is near zero but may hurt otherwise, I'd rather remove that (at least from the BWS beta).
So did I understand correctly or missed something?

[the bigg]

So if the effect is near zero but may hurt otherwise, I'd rather remove that (at least from the BWS beta).
So did I understand correctly or missed something?

That's what I and DavidW have been suggesting (although we later the discussion moved to recoding mods so that they avoid leaving 'unneeded' files in the override).

Override cleaning shouldn't be added even to the BiG World Cleanup.bat - after running the cleanup.bat, you can still install a new mod (E.G. for testing purposes) without trouble, whereas after override cleaning you might miss a crucial marker file and thus install the tested mod the wrong way.

[Lollorian]

Deviating from the current hot topic (hopefully for the greater good ) I'll make a small mention that the current Trimpack build IS BORKED!!! And if the BWS should download a trimpack, it should be the one attached here (until one of the Leo's or anyone else can make .patches out of the package here)

Also, randomizer's hotfixes got updated and alternatives has some fixes mentioned here (yea I'm modding the files according to jastey's posts too but thought it won't be necessary to upload them cause berelinde said she'll be checking them out this weekend ... so the mod itself would be updated soon )

Also, another bump of how old the fixpack's hotfixes for SpellRevisions are

[dabus]

Well if you want to update that every now and then after a mod came out...
Asking Leonardo for the script to create the files would probably be better.

And at least I think those are just some simple unified patches. I remember White Agnus telling me something in that way.

Quick and dirty example how to do make working patches yourself (by looking at the patch-structure):
Get some good unix-utils frim here. (They are useful on a regular basis, so give it a whirl even if you don't want to create patches...)
Then repeat those steps until you're done:

Create the patch.

diff -u Basefile NewFile > Patchfile

Remember to adjust the path at the top of the patch-file if your files are a bit scattered.

--- BGT\Install\EndSetup.bat	Sat May 08 00:27:48 2010
+++ C:\BWP Patchstudio\patched files\BGT\Install\EndSetup.bat	Sat May 08 16:27:10 2010

The first line tells you that the file is located in the sub-folder BGT\Install relative to the current path/the trimpack-batch is located.

--- Setup-AzenMOD.tp2	Thu Jan 01 10:52:38 2009
+++ C:\BWP Patchstudio\patched files\Setup-AzenMOD.tp2	Fri Apr 16 11:28:07 2010

The first line does not contain a subfolder, so file is in the same directory.

Put the file into BiG World Trimpack\%folder_that_matches_your_setup-name%

Edited by dabus, 16 September 2010 - 03:46 AM.

[Lollorian]

Thanks for the primer dabus

I'd tried my hand at patching using diffutils but the outcome was so AWESOME () I'm not too inclined to try that again

Basically, I know how to diff but unless there's an easier direct method to creating individual small li'l patchety-patch files by diffing 2 folders, the stuff I did to create that pack was downright tedious

[Wisp]

Basically, I know how to diff but unless there's an easier direct method to creating individual small li'l patchety-patch files by diffing 2 folders, the stuff I did to create that pack was downright tedious

You can probably do that with diff as well. See the documentation for comparing directories.
Dunno about adjusting the paths, but there are ways to batch-do that as well.

[dabus]

Basically, I know how to diff but unless there's an easier direct method to creating individual small li'l patchety-patch files by diffing 2 folders, the stuff I did to create that pack was downright tedious

Asking Leonardo for the script to create the files would probably be better.

You can use the -r -switch to get all diffs in a folder, but you'll have to split the output to match the current format. Or maybe use another diff/patch-program.

[Lollorian]

You can use the -r -switch to get all diffs in a folder, but you'll have to split the output to match the current format.

Yea it produces a HUGE block of output if you diff 2 folders that must be split manually You can prolly imagine the horror I got seeing a diffed output of the biffmeister folders with 27 files in 9 folders (and I phailed at splitting that too ... resulting in the monstrosity I linked in my last post)

[dabus]

BWP Installpack 9.4.1:
Guess that there are some quotes missing in the BiG World Install.bat:

IF EXIST ".\BiG World Installpack\BWP_Smoothpack.installed" copy ".\BiG World Installpack\BWP_Smoothpack.installed" "."

I guess

%IFN% bwp_test %IFXS%NeJ2.exe Call %INST% NeJ2v602 "0 2"
%IFN% bwp_test %IFXS%NeJ2%IFIF%TS-BP.exe Call %INST% NeJ2v60 "2"

should be

%IFN% bwp_test %IFXS%NeJ2.exe Call %INST% NeJ2v602 "0"
%IFN% bwp_test %IFXS%NeJ2%IFIF%TS-BP.exe Call %INST% NeJ2v602 "2"

BiG World Clean-Up.bat still nukes files that it should not (if you guys are right and I remember correctly, it deletes mod-files if the generalized_biffing is not installed/installed with small settings):

%OV%dw#*
%OV%ION*
%OV%IOUNX*

Edited by dabus, 22 September 2010 - 02:10 PM.

[Lollorian]

Wow the new install.bat looks kookie (damn I need to overhaul my own install.bat )

Anyway, the v9.4.1 Fixpack borks the Tactics mod .tp2 patch (again a caae of missing NULL chars)

[Eric P.]

There are still several mods missing from the 9.4 BiG World installation instructions (the .pdf), most notably some kit mods, as well as the point-based spell system PO_SpellSystem and the psionics system Deadly Thoughts (AKA Complete Psionic). So, during my current attempt at an "expert" installation, I added the kit mods that are not mentioned at the end of the section in the instructions for installing the kits that are mentioned, and I added the two mods mentioned above just before Spell Revisions. I notice some changes to which components of some mods should not be installed due to conflicts with other mods, so I'm being careful to follow the guide. I'm currently at the point where we install the additional 1PP mods (flaming short swords, colourable quarterstaves, etc.), so it shouldn't be long before I finish installing the ~150 mods I have, and then start playtesting to see if everything will work together.

Happy modding,
Eric

[Jarno Mikkola]

There are still several mods missing from the 9.4 BiG World installation instructions (the .pdf), most notably some kit mods, as well as the point-based spell system PO_SpellSystem and the psionics system Deadly Thoughts (AKA Complete Psionic). So, during my current attempt at an "expert" installation, I added the kit mods that are not mentioned at the end of the section in the instructions for installing the kits that are mentioned...

Well, nobody has confirmed to have a play through with the kits and mods installed... and there's a lot of mods that aren't in general use, it's generally suggested that one installs them with the knowledge that the BWP is tried to be kept as bug free as possible... but a few bugs might lurk in, and those take priority to any added content. Just like it's quite impossible to make an fully usable installer for the Level 1 NPCs mod's NPC components, the BWS still installs the few components it can.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 23 September 2010 - 07:30 AM.

[Lollorian]

I must say, the new install.bat is MUCH easier to understand (and edit!) Awesome stuff dabus!

Some notes from my editing spree :

1) Innershade gets installed with component #5 (no worldmap icon) when it should probably be #3 (worldmap icon without overwriting) - prolly the reason or the small note in the BWPGuide about not being able to see the map icon

2) Imnesvale still seems to be installing component #1 (hard mode) rather than #0 (normal) - shouldn't hard mode go in tactics and above type BWP installs??

3) Small recommendation about Weimer's item Upgrade to change to "10 11" rather than "0 1" - but I figure this would be jarring for non-english installs

4) Wild mage additions still installs #4 (Rhialto pansy-mode) - this really shouldn't be installed for tactics+ BWP modes, "recommended BWP" with pansy Rhialto is understandable though

5) Divine Remix could also install #610 (Nigthcloak Viconia) if it currently installs #600 (Battlepriest Branwen)

6) Similarly, Paladins of Faerun could make use of an additional "18 19 21 24 25"

7) The BP-Balancer is known to delete some important items and stuff so it might help to not install most of the item-deleting components

All of Taimon's ToB_Hacks is now encompassed in patchy form in A64's ToBEx so it could be wise to fully shift to the more patchy (and feature-rich ) platform with all of its components installed, whether the player needs them or not

9) Please include Turambar's Fixes n Tweaks in the next BWP, I have this line right before crefixer

Call %INST% Turambar_fixes_tweaks "11 12 13 14 15 2000 2003 2004 2005 2010 2020 2023 5010 5012 5013"

Cheers and awesome work!

[Marvin]

@Lollorian

Hmm really BP-Balancer deletes important items? What kind of items? Quest related ones?
But if it really does, we need a new way of ensuring balance in the game, becaue a lot of these items are pretty damn overpowered.
I remember one playthrough without it and I was just rushing through BG1. No one could stop me, but once I was in BG2 without my items, I was screwed in the first dungen =)

Marvin

[dabus]

Would be helpful if someone would maintain that package.
I know someone wanted to create a new balancer some time ago... think it was OneEyedPhoenix.

Critical (for Russian users)
Russian install stalls because there's no line that tests for essential (Russian) BWP-files.