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Fence CTD

Started by Turambar, Aug 29 2010 12:16 AM

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#1 Turambar

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 12:16 AM

A known SOS bug is that selecting the fence kit while creating a new character causes a CTD.

I don't know if it's already known, but I've noticed that by changing the kit description of the fence (for example with the kensai description), it does not CTD any more.

I've noticed that the fence has an extremely long description, i wonder if that can be the problem

Moreover, when the kit is added, its description is taken from a .tra file, but its name isn't:

SAY ~Fence~
SAY ~Fence~
SAY @20802


Last, but that's only esthetic, as the lower case name is the same as the mixed case name, and both are mixed, the letters of the name have different sizes

I'll think about a new and shorter description soon, if you need it

Edited by Turambar, 29 August 2010 - 01:55 AM.

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#2 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 03:12 AM

I don't know if it's already known, but I've noticed that by changing the kit description of the fence (for example with the kensai description), it does not CTD any more.

I've noticed that the fence has an extremely long description, i wonder if that can be the problem

I wouldn't think so, because the description text is moved to the dialog.tlk, and the creature just gets assigned with a number that says which line to use, just like the .tp2 files @number says which line to use from the .tra -file, when it's added to the dialog.tlk .
What comes to the cases in the SAY ~~'s, it's totally situation based thing, as some of the letters look better in the kit choosing menu, so the moder needs to make his own mind. For example I have a few kits which I have written to have all small cases, but the game reads then as if they were large cases. <_<

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#3 10th

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 03:39 AM

@Jarno
Remember the Find Familar spell crashes with the BG2 Fixpack in an older version? The text was too long.

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#4 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 04:32 AM

@Jarno
Remember the Find Familar spell crashes with the BG2 Fixpack in an older version? The text was too long.

OK then, if you like to try Turambar, try to keep the new description under 1400 mark, as the Conjure Lesser Air Elemental has ~1400(1398) that many marks in the description... easy way to read the exact measure is to use this site, and just copy paste the text.

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#5 Turambar

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 04:40 AM

I wouldn't think so, because the description text is moved to the dialog.tlk, and the creature just gets assigned with a number that says which line to use, just like the .tp2 files @number says which line to use from the .tra -file, when it's added to the dialog.tlk .
What comes to the cases in the SAY ~~'s, it's totally situation based thing, as some of the letters look better in the kit choosing menu, so the moder needs to make his own mind. For example I have a few kits which I have written to have all small cases, but the game reads then as if they were large cases. <_<


What I meant with the case is that I have noticed, always in kitlist.2da, whose columns are

ROWNAME            LOWER              MIXED              HELP               ABILITIES          PROFICIENCY        UNUSABLE           CLASS
that some mod-added kits have the same stref in the second and third column, which never happens with normal kits. For example:

12                 SWASHBUCKLER       25191              25162              25216              CLABTH04           40                 0x00100000         4
32                 FENCE              79183              79183              79184              CLABFNCE           53                 0x00080000         4

If the second name contains capital letters, the other letters are smaller; it's not a problem, but I think it's ugly:

case.jpg

OK then, if you like to try Turambar, try to keep the new description under 1400 mark, as the Conjure Lesser Air Elemental has ~1400(1398) that many marks in the description... easy way to read the exact measure is to use this site, and just copy paste the text.


Thanks for the link. Well, the Italian description has 4763 marks... that is actually quite a lot

the berserker has around 1400 as well

Edited by Turambar, 29 August 2010 - 05:15 AM.

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#6 Turambar

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 05:06 AM

OK then, if you like to try Turambar, try to keep the new description under 1400 mark, as the Conjure Lesser Air Elemental has ~1400(1398) that many marks in the description... easy way to read the exact measure is to use this site, and just copy paste the text.


I've tried messing a bit with that.

The maximum number of marks is 4096 (at least, in my game, but I don't think any mod changes that).
Spoiler


The first marks after that are not displayed in the box: if the string is 4098 marks long, the two last are not displayed.

If the string exceeds that number by too much (around 100-200), then the crash occurs.

Edited by Turambar, 29 August 2010 - 05:09 AM.

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#7 Hoppy

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 03:52 PM

My FENCE kit doesn't crash so it has nothing to do with the description. Actually my refinements adjustments of FENCEtf and FENCEtw don't crash either which would have the same descriptions. Maybe I did something that I forgot about. I did spend some time on this a little while ago and as soon as I remember it I will post the fix.

Just way too much S#!@ in my head right now.

FYI:

I just looked at this for TDD and the same string numbers for the Fence mean that both say FENCE or Fence, whichever the str ref says. In BG2 normally we have berserker, Berserker, and BERSERKER: (descript.). That's three strings in vanilla and the Fence kit and other TDD kits use the same string for the two names. It is a matter of what's in caps or what's not in caps basically. Nothing crash causing anyway.

12                 SWASHBUCKLER       25191              25162              25216              CLABTH04           40                 0x00100000         4
32                 FENCE              79183              79183              79184              CLABFNCE           53                 0x00080000         4

EDIT: Confirmed no crash with starting BG1 or BG2 fresh games. If I am correct, the crash happens when the character creation is complete and the character is created in Chateau Irenicus or wherever the character starts?

I know I did something, just gotta remember :doh:

Edited by Hoppy, 29 August 2010 - 04:50 PM.

?May God defend me from my friends; I can defend myself from my enemies.? - Voltaire

"If you think that a size of the mod indicates an amount of bugs that it introduces and their severity you're totally wrong...
Try not to use next time a load of shitty "super-mega-improving-tweaking-revising" small mods that you have installed and try to meet Wulfgar once again." - King Diamond


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#8 Turambar

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 02:14 AM

My FENCE kit doesn't crash so it has nothing to do with the description. Actually my refinements adjustments of FENCEtf and FENCEtw don't crash either which would have the same descriptions. Maybe I did something that I forgot about. I did spend some time on this a little while ago and as soon as I remember it I will post the fix.


what language do you have? could you paste your fence description, or check its length? the same texts, if translated, are usually much shorter in their English version than in many other languages, so the English text might be all right.

I just looked at this for TDD and the same string numbers for the Fence mean that both say FENCE or Fence, whichever the str ref says. In BG2 normally we have berserker, Berserker, and BERSERKER: (descript.). That's three strings in vanilla and the Fence kit and other TDD kits use the same string for the two names. It is a matter of what's in caps or what's not in caps basically. Nothing crash causing anyway.

12                 SWASHBUCKLER       25191              25162              25216              CLABTH04           40                 0x00100000         4
32                 FENCE              79183              79183              79184              CLABFNCE           53                 0x00080000         4

What I'm saying is not that the cases cause the crash, this is another thing; that only causes the name to appear uglier, because in the character creation screen some letters are bigger than others

EDIT: Confirmed no crash with starting BG1 or BG2 fresh games. If I am correct, the crash happens when the character creation is complete and the character is created in Chateau Irenicus or wherever the character starts?


no, it occurs during the character creation. when you select class, then thief, the list of thief-kits appears. whenever you select one of the kits, the description is displayed on the right and you can select ok to continue.

when you select the fence kit (not the ok button after selecting the kit, just when you click on the fence button), the CTD occurs

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#9 Hoppy

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 08:43 AM

I have English game texts. My Fence description has 3655 so I guess you are right. This will need to be re translated with some abbreviations or paraphrasing with Italian and Spanish too. I know the same problem exists with Spanish as well.

If you want to do it and post here or PM me I can release it with my SOS update. If not I can ask ilot to do it and Ancalagon el Negro for Spanish. They are pretty fast.

Here is the English text:

FENCE:
The Fence is a black marketeer, a seller of stolen or otherwise illegal goods. He is almost always found in a city setting, where there are large numbers of people to serve as customers as well as prey for the thieves who supply him. A good Fence needs a sharp mind to appraise people as well as goods, and to stay ahead of the law. To take this kit, therefore, a thief needs a minimum Intelligence of 12.

Role: The Fence is the linchpin in the complicated web of the black market. Thieves sell their illicit acquisitions to the Fence, for some amount of money below their actual value. The Fence then resells the "hot" goods on the black market. If the city in which he operates is large and the goods are minor enough (not the crown jewels of the local royalty), they may be sold directly to local buyers. If the Fence thinks they're "too hot," though, he will probably arrange to have them smuggled and sold elsewhere.
Power for Fences is rarely measured in terms of character level. Instead, it is a matter of the breadth of the Fence's network and the reliability of his contacts. Of course, to acquire or retain an extensive network, a Fence needs much cunning and experience which may coincidentally result in a high character level.
Fences may be of any social background, though wealthy and noble Fences are rare. Certainly those that do exist diligently keep their identities well-hidden, for obvious reasons. The stakes must be high to claim the attention of the socially and financially elevated.
The black market network transfers information as well as goods. Fences are probably the best-informed figures of the underworld.

Weapon Proficiencies: Any.

Skill Progression: Less powerful Fences (that is, those lower in the network hierarchy, with fewer contacts) may need to make use of thiefly skills. Picking pockets may provide a little income when business is slow; its use for sleight-of-hand may also have value (though it is dangerous to cheat clients). Opening locks and finding and removing traps are useful skills for inspecting merchandise. It is not unknown for Burglars, unable to open a strongbox, to simply cart off the whole thing and hope their Fence can get it open. Read languages is also sometimes useful in examining merchandise. The stealth skills (move silently, etc.) have some value on the street; Fences who have direct contact with their clients may put some time into cultivating them, but more powerful Fences often neglect them.

Special Benefits: Because of his contacts, a Fence is probably the best person for locating and hiring thieves and smugglers, especially in territory not claimed by a guild.
Also, Fences generally command a lot of respect from the underworld in their home territory. Unless a thief has a serious vendetta, he will probably court a Fence's favor for business reasons. Fences receive a bonus of +3 on reactions with NPC thieves if their profession is recognized.

Special Hindrances: Fences are relatively prominent in the underworld. And, unlike freelance burglars and smugglers who can move from place to place, the Fences' black market network requires a stable home locale, so that they can stay in touch with their contacts. This also means that the local authorities may be aware of a Fence's identity and activities. These authorities may periodically harass a minor Fence, or demand bribes, or may shake him up for information every once in a while.

Races: Fences may be of any race. Some demihuman Fences prefer to deal only in certain goods. Dwarf and gnome Fences, for instance, are known as shrewd appraisers of stolen gems and jewelry.



EDIT:

What I'm saying is not that the cases cause the crash, this is another thing; that only causes the name to appear uglier, because in the character creation screen some letters are bigger than others


I understand what you meant and it means that SOS and TDD will have to add different strings for the "no capitals". SOS and TDD use a lazy way of using the same string twice. The only fix is to introduce new strings in the TRA file and modify the 2da. It could have been a way to keep the dialog.tlk file smaller, I don't know.


EDIT2: I am assuming that spaces count for a character as well.

Edited by Hoppy, 30 August 2010 - 08:54 AM.

?May God defend me from my friends; I can defend myself from my enemies.? - Voltaire

"If you think that a size of the mod indicates an amount of bugs that it introduces and their severity you're totally wrong...
Try not to use next time a load of shitty "super-mega-improving-tweaking-revising" small mods that you have installed and try to meet Wulfgar once again." - King Diamond


Posted Image The Definitive Guide to Trolls

"Finding food and a place to sleep is your own business. I imagine Paul the Cat should have some fun with you, too" - Potencius in The Darkest Day
"You have been warned, little bastard!" -Khelben to a young <CHARNAME>in Check the Bodies
There are those who will snivel, and offer nothing in return except criticism, meanwhile never lifting a finger to do other than to cut other peoples labor down simply for the fact that they lack the capability to put anything of their own together. -erebusant

#10 Turambar

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 09:52 AM

I have English game texts. My Fence description has 3655 so I guess you are right. This will need to be re translated with some abbreviations or paraphrasing with Italian and Spanish too. I know the same problem exists with Spanish as well.

If you want to do it and post here or PM me I can release it with my SOS update. If not I can ask ilot to do it and Ancalagon el Negro for Spanish. They are pretty fast.

Here is the English text:

I could do it in some weeks time.

Anyway, I think that's a strange kit description: normally, there's just a short description, and a list of benefits and restrictions; this description is not so clear in my opinon: do they have particular abilities? or what? I think we could write it again like that

EDIT2: I am assuming that spaces count for a character as well.

Yes, as well as new lines ... and any ASCII character

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#11 Hoppy

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 11:38 AM


I have English game texts. My Fence description has 3655 so I guess you are right. This will need to be re translated with some abbreviations or paraphrasing with Italian and Spanish too. I know the same problem exists with Spanish as well.

If you want to do it and post here or PM me I can release it with my SOS update. If not I can ask ilot to do it and Ancalagon el Negro for Spanish. They are pretty fast.

Here is the English text:

I could do it in some weeks time.

Anyway, I think that's a strange kit description: normally, there's just a short description, and a list of benefits and restrictions; this description is not so clear in my opinon: do they have particular abilities? or what? I think we could write it again like that

EDIT2: I am assuming that spaces count for a character as well.

Yes, as well as new lines ... and any ASCII character



The kit description is a bit wordy and strange but I prefer to keep it faithful to what CBisson used for the mod. That's just my personal credo. ;)


EDIT: It is strange that the kit crashes for character creation and the game does not crash when Selence is created in Waukeen's Promenade as she has the kit. :blink:

Or does it in Italian and/or Spanish? :unsure:

Edited by Hoppy, 30 August 2010 - 11:42 AM.

?May God defend me from my friends; I can defend myself from my enemies.? - Voltaire

"If you think that a size of the mod indicates an amount of bugs that it introduces and their severity you're totally wrong...
Try not to use next time a load of shitty "super-mega-improving-tweaking-revising" small mods that you have installed and try to meet Wulfgar once again." - King Diamond


Posted Image The Definitive Guide to Trolls

"Finding food and a place to sleep is your own business. I imagine Paul the Cat should have some fun with you, too" - Potencius in The Darkest Day
"You have been warned, little bastard!" -Khelben to a young <CHARNAME>in Check the Bodies
There are those who will snivel, and offer nothing in return except criticism, meanwhile never lifting a finger to do other than to cut other peoples labor down simply for the fact that they lack the capability to put anything of their own together. -erebusant

#12 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 12:32 PM

The kit description is a bit wordy and strange but I prefer to keep it faithful to what CBisson used for the mod. That's just my personal credo. ;)

Can't you just put that description to the readme, and put the rule abiding to the kit creation window ? As it's a bit more informative than say that thing about what not and then some about this and that but still not about the book on creation of cheese and rum or was it champagne the cheep kind yet not the really poor cheep kind tasty and what-not good for the late nights and early mornings that one has to try to sleep with a coughing child on your arms still a word of caution not to drink that stuff too much or, and that was just about the drinking now we can go back to the cheese with Cheddar Emmental Blue and Red Castello although I suspect the Red is just as blue as the Orange is White besides which colors theres purple gold... :P

EDIT: It is strange that the kit crashes for character creation and the game does not crash when Selence is created in Waukeen's Promenade as she has the kit. :blink:

Or does it in Italian and/or Spanish? :unsure:

Well, it actually should only crash when you look at the kit description, after Selence has joined the party... but try if you wish.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 30 August 2010 - 01:14 PM.

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#13 Hoppy

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 04:09 PM

Well, it actually should only crash when you look at the kit description, after Selence has joined the party... but try if you wish.


I can't because mine doesn't crash at all but I wasn't sure if there had been any reports of SOS crashing because of Selence in the other languages, which remains a mystery I guess.

As it's a bit more informative than say that thing about what not and then some about this and that but still not about the book on creation of cheese and rum or was it champagne the cheep kind yet not the really poor cheep kind tasty and what-not good for the late nights and early mornings that one has to try to sleep with a coughing child on your arms still a word of caution not to drink that stuff too much or, and that was just about the drinking now we can go back to the cheese with Cheddar Emmental Blue and Red Castello although I suspect the Red is just as blue as the Orange is White besides which colors theres purple gold...


Yeah, well...you know, that's just like, uhhh...your opinion, man. :lol:


Edited by Hoppy, 30 August 2010 - 04:24 PM.

?May God defend me from my friends; I can defend myself from my enemies.? - Voltaire

"If you think that a size of the mod indicates an amount of bugs that it introduces and their severity you're totally wrong...
Try not to use next time a load of shitty "super-mega-improving-tweaking-revising" small mods that you have installed and try to meet Wulfgar once again." - King Diamond


Posted Image The Definitive Guide to Trolls

"Finding food and a place to sleep is your own business. I imagine Paul the Cat should have some fun with you, too" - Potencius in The Darkest Day
"You have been warned, little bastard!" -Khelben to a young <CHARNAME>in Check the Bodies
There are those who will snivel, and offer nothing in return except criticism, meanwhile never lifting a finger to do other than to cut other peoples labor down simply for the fact that they lack the capability to put anything of their own together. -erebusant

#14 Hoppy

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Posted 30 August 2010 - 06:32 PM

I put the new spanish translation in the 1.12 bug reports pinned topic(originally 4446 characters, so CTD). Please put the new italian translation as well as the other requested languages: German and Russian.

Here is the version 1.13 @20802 in the setup.tra

~FENCE:
The Fence is a black marketeer, a seller of stolen or otherwise illegal goods. He is almost always found in a city setting, where there are large numbers of people to serve as customers as well as prey for the thieves who supply him. A good Fence needs a sharp mind to appraise people as well as goods, and to stay ahead of the law. To take this kit, therefore, a thief needs a minimum Intelligence of 12.

Role: The Fence is the linchpin in the complicated web of the black market. Thieves sell their illicit acquisitions to the Fence, for some amount of money below their actual value. The Fence then resells the "hot" goods on the black market. If the city in which he operates is large and the goods are minor enough (not the crown jewels of the local royalty), they may be sold directly to local buyers. If the Fence thinks they're "too hot," though, he will probably arrange to have them smuggled and sold elsewhere.
Power for Fences is rarely measured in terms of character level. Instead, it is a matter of the breadth of the Fence's network and the reliability of his contacts. Of course, to acquire or retain an extensive network, a Fence needs much cunning and experience which may coincidentally result in a high character level.
Fences may be of any social background, though wealthy and noble Fences are rare. Certainly those that do exist diligently keep their identities well-hidden, for obvious reasons. The stakes must be high to claim the attention of the socially and financially elevated.
The black market network transfers information as well as goods. Fences are probably the best-informed figures of the underworld.

Weapon Proficiencies: Any.

Skill Progression: Less powerful Fences (that is, those lower in the network hierarchy, with fewer contacts) may need to make use of thiefly skills. Picking pockets may provide a little income when business is slow; its use for sleight-of-hand may also have value (though it is dangerous to cheat clients). Opening locks and finding and removing traps are useful skills for inspecting merchandise. It is not unknown for Burglars, unable to open a strongbox, to simply cart off the whole thing and hope their Fence can get it open. Read languages is also sometimes useful in examining merchandise. The stealth skills (move silently, etc.) have some value on the street; Fences who have direct contact with their clients may put some time into cultivating them, but more powerful Fences often neglect them.

Special Benefits: Because of his contacts, a Fence is probably the best person for locating and hiring thieves and smugglers, especially in territory not claimed by a guild.
Also, Fences generally command a lot of respect from the underworld in their home territory. Unless a thief has a serious vendetta, he will probably court a Fence's favor for business reasons. Fences receive a bonus of +3 on reactions with NPC thieves if their profession is recognized.

Special Hindrances: Fences are relatively prominent in the underworld. And, unlike freelance burglars and smugglers who can move from place to place, the Fences' black market network requires a stable home locale, so that they can stay in touch with their contacts. This also means that the local authorities may be aware of a Fence's identity and activities. These authorities may periodically harass a minor Fence, or demand bribes, or may shake him up for information every once in a while.

Races: Fences may be of any race. Some demihuman Fences prefer to deal only in certain goods. Dwarf and gnome Fences, for instance, are known as shrewd appraisers of stolen gems and jewelry.~



the tildes ~ are only necessary for the tra file and won't count for the total characters displayed.



EDIT: Translations are being completed as we speak.

Edited by Hoppy, 31 August 2010 - 06:32 PM.

?May God defend me from my friends; I can defend myself from my enemies.? - Voltaire

"If you think that a size of the mod indicates an amount of bugs that it introduces and their severity you're totally wrong...
Try not to use next time a load of shitty "super-mega-improving-tweaking-revising" small mods that you have installed and try to meet Wulfgar once again." - King Diamond


Posted Image The Definitive Guide to Trolls

"Finding food and a place to sleep is your own business. I imagine Paul the Cat should have some fun with you, too" - Potencius in The Darkest Day
"You have been warned, little bastard!" -Khelben to a young <CHARNAME>in Check the Bodies
There are those who will snivel, and offer nothing in return except criticism, meanwhile never lifting a finger to do other than to cut other peoples labor down simply for the fact that they lack the capability to put anything of their own together. -erebusant

#15 ilot

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 06:14 AM

EDIT: Translations are being completed as we speak.



@Hoppy: I would like to know if the new (small Posted Image ) italian translation about "fence kit" is completed!!


Let me know

Edited by ilot, 06 September 2010 - 06:19 AM.

Italian mods tanslator!!!!

#16 Hoppy

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 08:54 AM

Go ahead ilot as Turambar said it would take him some weeks time. Can you please PM him and collaborate about the Italian? I don't want to make him feel like we ignored him regarding this translation. I am sure whatever you guys decide will be excellent :D

Edited by Hoppy, 06 September 2010 - 08:56 AM.

?May God defend me from my friends; I can defend myself from my enemies.? - Voltaire

"If you think that a size of the mod indicates an amount of bugs that it introduces and their severity you're totally wrong...
Try not to use next time a load of shitty "super-mega-improving-tweaking-revising" small mods that you have installed and try to meet Wulfgar once again." - King Diamond


Posted Image The Definitive Guide to Trolls

"Finding food and a place to sleep is your own business. I imagine Paul the Cat should have some fun with you, too" - Potencius in The Darkest Day
"You have been warned, little bastard!" -Khelben to a young <CHARNAME>in Check the Bodies
There are those who will snivel, and offer nothing in return except criticism, meanwhile never lifting a finger to do other than to cut other peoples labor down simply for the fact that they lack the capability to put anything of their own together. -erebusant

#17 ilot

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 01:36 PM

Go ahead ilot as Turambar said it would take him some weeks time. Can you please PM him and collaborate about the Italian? I don't want to make him feel like we ignored him regarding this translation. I am sure whatever you guys decide will be excellent Posted Image



Don't worry Hoppy, I've PM him, and I let you know quickly about the translation!! Posted Image

Italian mods tanslator!!!!

#18 ilot

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 01:56 AM

Don't worry Hoppy, I've PM him, and I let you know quickly about the translation!! Posted Image



@Hoppy: Turambar will take care of the Translation!!! Posted Image

Edited by ilot, 07 September 2010 - 01:57 AM.

Italian mods tanslator!!!!

#19 Turambar

Turambar
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Posted 07 September 2010 - 08:57 AM



Don't worry Hoppy, I've PM him, and I let you know quickly about the translation!! Posted Image



@Hoppy: Turambar will take care of the Translation!!! Posted Image



Here I am, I've posted it in the bug thread.

I think all translations are ready now :)

Turambar

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