32 replies to this topic

[the bigg]

I've coded another component for tb#tweaks (code attached) that allows characters to gain +1 to a stat of their choice at certain level ups (justified as training). This training cannot exceed the character's natural stat limit (so a Human warrior can't get Str > 18, an Half-Ogre can advance to 19 but not higher, and an hypothetical Halfling Avenger can't get more than 15). Exceptional strength can't be acquired or increased in this fashion.

The thresholds in the attachment are: 50k XP, 1.5M XP, 5M XP (roughly middle of BG1, middle of SoA, middle of ToB), but they're very open to suggestion.

There are also story-related stat boosts: one during the SoA -> ToB transition and one during the BG1 -> SoA transition (the latter only in BGT). Any NPC will receive that as soon as he is loaded during that section of the game.

All in all, both Sarevok and a new ToB-only character will receive 4 stat boosts as soon as they are created / join the party.

Does anybody have comments to give? Three areas I'm particularly interested in are: thresholds (I can offer different sets via SUBCOMPONENTs and/or depending on the platform), a way to check versus the base stats (rather than the current ones - there's an "ask me later" option that allows you to sleep off spells and remove belts, but you can still E.G. cast Ray of Enfeeblement on yourself to boost Strength over the standard max), and improving the dialogue, but at this stage I'm open on suggestions even regarding other things (other than "this component sucks and should be removed", I suppose).


To install, uninstall the previous build (more_hacks.tp2), extract in your BG2 directory (eventually overwriting the pre-existing tb#tweaks folder) and then run setup-tb#tweaks.exe as usual to install the new component (this doesn't break uninstalling for previously installed components of tb#tweaks).

 tb#tweaks.7z   79.79K   547 downloads

Edited by the bigg, 03 September 2010 - 10:51 AM.

[berelinde]

Absolutely love the idea. It is unreasonable that a character can never improve his or her stats during the course of the game. It might be cool to allow a stat increase at the start of ToB, as well, but that's just a wild suggestion.

Some suggestions for the dialogue, changes in blue. They are very minor.

SAY ~Indeed, <HESHE> has trained diligently to improve <HISHER> %Stat%.~
SAY ~No, since <HESHE> already is as %adjective% as possible for a <RACE>.~
= ~But <HESHE> has also utilized <HISHER>...~
IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~<GABBER> is as %adjective% as possible for a <RACE> only because of a magical enchantment, but <HESHE> could still increase <HISHER> natural %Stat%.~
SAY ~<GABBER> will try again in eight hours, after removing items and spells affecting <HISHER> %Stat%.~
SAY ~Will that be enough for <HIMHER> to become %comparative%?~

[the bigg]

Cheers for the dialogue suggestions/fixes.

And yes, it shouldn't be too hard to add an increase at the ToB transition (and SoA for BGT players).

[the bigg]

I've added a stat boost during both BG1 -> SoA and SoA -> ToB transitions in the first post.

[berelinde]

Will players who import characters from Tutu or who begin new games in ToB get boosts too? Just asking...

[GeN1e]

The attachment doesn't seem to open for me... Well, whatever.

For the dialog, I personally believe that within dialog interface blunt tech description is less 4th wall breaking than a half-assed attempt to make it somewhat immersive.

One caveat is that, if a character could gain multiple stat point in a sitting (E.G. ToB-only NPC), he'll only gain the latest stat advance and forfeit the earlier ones.

Eh, why so? Append DPLAYER\([23]?\).BCS with this and be done?

IF
XPGT(Myself,50000)
Global("stats","locals",0)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
SetInterrupt(FALSE)
SetGlobal("stats","locals",1)
StartDialogOverride("statsdlg",Myself)
SetInterrupt(TRUE)
END

IF
XPGT(Myself,1500000)
Global("stats","locals",1)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
SetInterrupt(FALSE)
SetGlobal("stats","locals",2)
StartDialogOverride("statsdlg",Myself)
SetInterrupt(TRUE)
END

IF
XPGT(Myself,5000000)
Global("stats","locals",2)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
SetInterrupt(FALSE)
SetGlobal("stats","locals",3)
StartDialogOverride("statsdlg",Myself)
SetInterrupt(TRUE)
END

a way to check versus the base stats (rather than the current ones - there's an "ask me later" option that allows you to sleep off spells and remove belts, but you can still E.G. cast Ray of Enfeeblement on yourself to boost Strength over the standard max)

Well, short of force-dropping items and dispelling effects I can think of nothing else. Trying to track down what PC's real stats should be imo is a waste of time. Besides, 3rd edition doesn't have a maximum cap on improving stats.

Edited by GeN1e, 25 August 2010 - 02:22 PM.

[Galactygon]

I really like this idea; I was thinking about it ever since playing PS:T.

This training cannot exceed the character's natural stat limit (so a Human warrior can't get Str > 18, an Half-Ogre can advance to 19 but not higher, and an hypothetical Halfling Avenger can't get more than 15). Exceptional strength can't be acquired or increased in this fashion.

I'd remove this limit for CHARNAME simply because (s)he is special.

Does anybody have comments to give? Three areas I'm particularly interested in are: thresholds (I can offer different sets via SUBCOMPONENTs and/or depending on the platform), a way to check versus the base stats (rather than the current ones - there's an "ask me later" option that allows you to sleep off spells and remove belts, but you can still E.G. cast Ray of Enfeeblement on yourself to boost Strength over the standard max), and improving the dialogue*, but at this stage I'm open on suggestions even regarding other things (other than "this component sucks and should be removed", I suppose).

You could have the dialogue apply an ultrapowerful dispel and have the character drop all items, with an explanation I cannot come up with right now. Except for CHARNAME of course, because you wouldn't need to have to check any limits.

EDIT: GeN1e was there earlier.

-Galactygon

Edited by Galactygon, 25 August 2010 - 02:19 PM.

[the bigg]

Will players who import characters from Tutu or who begin new games in ToB get boosts too? Just asking...

Importers will receive the 32k boost during Tutu (of course) and the transition boost (after I code it up). ToB-only games will only receive the 1.5M boost (since I'd like to reward the effort of playing through he games rather than just give you the rewards.

For the dialog, I personally believe that within dialog interface blunt tech description is less 4th wall breaking than a half-assed attempt to make it somewhat immersive.

Hm, I'll see if more people are of this opinion - I'd rather not shoot technicalese in the face of players mid-game, though.

Eh, why so? Append DPLAYER\([23]?\).BCS with this and be done?

I know how to code (in fact, it was coded like that and I reversed the loop order on thresholds.2da because of my personal preference)
I made it like so because I prefer not to give players a ton of boosts just for starting a game (see above), but given that the majority of people prefer this I'll make boosts cumulative and retroactive (ToB-only game = 4 boosts). I only play BGT, so this doesn't affect me.

Well, short of force-dropping items and dispelling effects I can think of nothing else.

I don't like force drops and dispels (what if you cast the last copy of a vital buff and you're on a timed quest?).

Besides, 3rd edition doesn't have a maximum cap on improving stats.

I'd remove this limit for CHARNAME simply because (s)he is special.

The limits are there to avoid downclassing the Tomes (and to protect you from accidentally going over 25 Strength and the like). SUBCOMPONENT to the rescue I guess...

and all I wanted to do was to dual class Gavin to Fighter without having to NI his strength up...

Edited by the bigg, 25 August 2010 - 02:46 PM.

[the bigg]

New build: boosts are cumulative and retroactive (2 if starting in SoA, 4 if starting in ToB), and you can choose who is exempt from racial maxims via SUBCOMPONENT. Also packaged and added to tb#tweaks (from more_hacks.tp2), so you need to uninstall more_hacks, extract this to your bg2 directory (eventually overwriting what was before in tb#tweaks) and then install tb#tweaks (this doesn't break uninstalls for other tb#tweaks components).

[berelinde]

Very nice! A 4-point stat gain across the series isn't going to be unbalancing, especially if the player can decide where to spend them, but it really does promote a sense of accomplishment throughout the games. Well done!

[the bigg]

That's 5 actually - you get the last one at 4.5M XP (the 4 I keep mentioning are the ones you'll get spammed as soon as you finish character creation / joining dialogue in a ToB-only game).

[the bigg]

Can do pretty easily, since the system is designed to allow custom thresholds.

[the bigg]

Coded, in git.

[Quester]

I love the idea of this component, but I would rather that stat increases weren't retroactive. There should be a sense of accomplishment associated with reaching a stat-boost. Besides it's silly to be able to raise an NPC's attributes immediately after having them join the party in the latter parts of the game.

Would it be possible to provide the option of not having the gain be retroactive?

[the bigg]

Yes, the next version will offer this choice.

[Quester]

Excellent! Looking forward to the next version.

[Quester]

Another request: could there be an option to set it so everyone can advance just 1 point over their normal racial maximum? So a human could reach a 19 INT, a half-orc could reach a 20 STR, etc. Also, it's not really clear from the current documentation how often this component will give you a stat increase.

[the bigg]

Another request: could there be an option to set it so everyone can advance just 1 point over their normal racial maximum? So a human could reach a 19 INT, a half-orc could reach a 20 STR, etc.

that's possible.

Also, it's not really clear from the current documentation how often this component will give you a stat increase.

the component description should say it.

[the bigg]

Both features implemented; release TBD.