10 replies to this topic

[Eric P.]

Hello, guest here. I would like to say beforehand that I've only recently gotten into the Baldur's Gate series along with the other games powered by the infinity engine (though BG does impress me the most in near all aspects), and would also like to say that the sheer size of the fanbase community that is still active even today is really what impresses me.

But the thing is when I was (or should I say still am) playing through Baldur's Gate, I think I have to ask can anybody briefly tell me how the whole, universe of D&D is set out? I know barely anything about D&D in terms of, um, 'lore' and I'm sure through my trolling around the forums, I learned that the best source of information would be from reading the numerous D&D books. However I'm not asking for that much, just rather you guys know 'The Galaxy Song' from Monty Python or 'Yakko's Universe Song' from Animaniacs, where they reeaally briefly describe the universe in a 3 minute song? Like; "And we're part of a vast interplanetary system, Stretching seven hundred billion miles long. With nine planets and a sun; we think the Earth's the only one, That has life on it, although we could be wrong." or something of the like?

I mean, there's the whole levels of hell and the "Prime Astral Plane" where most of them are, I'm not sure I'm just drawing from my brief Planescape: Torment experience that was cut short. Are the campaigns separated into different universes, or different planes of existence? Or are there adventures where a party is teleported by a wizard to the far depths of space where they encounter, I don't know, Tyranids and Eldar? I remember you can choose to be a Space Marine in the "Talisman" board game which was pretty interesting. Killing dragons with your bolter cannon.

But yes, in any case. I guess it's not really a quick question at all, not very crucial either BUT just thought I can post it here if anybody wishes to enlighten this old fool.

There are different cosmologies, or collections of planes, that make up any D&D universe/multiverse. the Manual of the Planes describes the standard set of Material, Inner, and Outer Planes, and how some of them are connected while others aren't (but can be reached by moving through other planes). The Forgotten Realms setting has its own cosmology that differs from the standard, and Dungeon Masters may also construct their own, with as little or as much detail as they like. Usually, a cosmology includes at least one Material Plane, which is the familiar physical world, a Positive and a Negative Energy Plane, Astral and Ethereal Plane, Elemental Planes, and Outer Planes. The Outer Planes are where the realms of most deities are located, and are where most races' spirit essences end up after final death. Some Outer Planes are infinite, while others occupy limited space, and many planar boundaries can be crossed to allow travel from one plane to the next.

That's a very basic overview for you

Cheers,
Eric

[Bluenose]

Hello, guest here. I would like to say beforehand that I've only recently gotten into the Baldur's Gate series along with the other games powered by the infinity engine (though BG does impress me the most in near all aspects), and would also like to say that the sheer size of the fanbase community that is still active even today is really what impresses me.

But the thing is when I was (or should I say still am) playing through Baldur's Gate, I think I have to ask can anybody briefly tell me how the whole, universe of D&D is set out? I know barely anything about D&D in terms of, um, 'lore' and I'm sure through my trolling around the forums, I learned that the best source of information would be from reading the numerous D&D books. However I'm not asking for that much, just rather you guys know 'The Galaxy Song' from Monty Python or 'Yakko's Universe Song' from Animaniacs, where they reeaally briefly describe the universe in a 3 minute song? Like; "And we're part of a vast interplanetary system, Stretching seven hundred billion miles long. With nine planets and a sun; we think the Earth's the only one, That has life on it, although we could be wrong." or something of the like?

I mean, there's the whole levels of hell and the "Prime Astral Plane" where most of them are, I'm not sure I'm just drawing from my brief Planescape: Torment experience that was cut short. Are the campaigns separated into different universes, or different planes of existence? Or are there adventures where a party is teleported by a wizard to the far depths of space where they encounter, I don't know, Tyranids and Eldar? I remember you can choose to be a Space Marine in the "Talisman" board game which was pretty interesting. Killing dragons with your bolter cannon.

But yes, in any case. I guess it's not really a quick question at all, not very crucial either BUT just thought I can post it here if anybody wishes to enlighten this old fool.

There's not one quick answer to the question, because there are a lot of different worlds which are D&D settings and they all tend to operate in different ways. A very simple run-down of worlds and planes:

1. The Prime Material Plane. The 'normal' bit. Stars, with planets going round them, live here, as do most mortal races. Most are pretty earth-like, though there are exceptions. If you can travel through fantasy-space, you can fly from one world to another. Somewhat like a galaxy in real-life, though with a heavy fantasy tint, so there are multiple worlds and if you travelled far enough through space you probably could find the world the Tyranids live on. There are in fact a few creatures which remind me of Tyranids in various rulebooks.

2. The Inner Planes. Four of matter, based on the ancient Greek elements of earth, air, fire and water. When you summon an elemental you're grabbing one of the inhabitants of these planes to use on your enemies. And note that early in BG2 in Irenicus' dungeon you head into through a door which takes you into what seems like the elemental plane of air. Two of energy, negative and positive. Negative energy animates undead. Positive eneergy is invoked by healing spells. All these places are very dangerous, simply because they're dominated by one single concept that is basically inimical to life in excess.

3. The Astral and Ethereal Planes. The Astral plane is 'between' the Prime Material and the Outer Planes, touching all of them. Powerful spellcasters can move themselves and others to the Astral plane and then to either an Outer Plane or a different world. The Ethereal is in many ways the same sort of thing, but is 'close enough' to the Prime that you can see creatures within it and creatures within it can see you. Interaction is mroe of a problem. It can be used to bypass locked doors, simply because you can walk through walls as if they aren't present.

4. The Outer Planes. These vary, a lot, depending on which setting you use. Mostly you find they have an alignment of some sort. So the Nine Hells are Lawful Evil, and are occupied by devils which combine being evil with being highly organised. The Abyss is Chaotic Evil, occupied by demons which are as evil as devils but a lot less organised (and much more numerous). The Seven Heavens are lawful good, with their Archon inhabitants - in Baldur's Gate the Solar is an example. The Forgotten Realms deviates from the classical structure, in that most of the outer planes are associated with a deity or group of deities and their servant creatures. So Bhaal, before he died, had his plane the Throne of Blood and various servants inhabiting it.

This is somewhat simplified, by the way. There are planes that don't exactly fit in with this 'standard cosmological model' and worlds/settings where the planes work differently (FR is one, in some respects). There are for example planes of dreams/nightmares, the Far Realms where some really strange rules apply, and Faerie/the Fay Realm which may or may not be one plane but certainly attaches to different settings. I hope this is some help, and if you've got more questions ask away.

[Miloch]

On a somewhat smaller level, BG and such games take place on the planet of Toril (aka "the Forgotten Realms" on the continent of Faerun) which has its own star system called Realmspace on the "Prime Material Plane" (what we would call the "known universe" though of course there are other planes and dimensions beyond it). Presumably Earth and other worlds are contained in the same "universe". Unlike Earth's solar system, most of the other planets in Realmspace are inhabited (rather oddly in some cases).

[Bluenose]

Does anyone know what the stars in the Forgotten Realms campaign are? I presume they are not actual stars because Realmspace is contained in a Crystal Sphere and if Spelljammer setting coexists with FR setting, the Crystal Sphere must be relatively small in order for Spelljammer to make sense (Spelljammer is canon in BG2 at least, there was this Spelljammer Beholder in Ust Natha IIRC). How long does it take anyway for a Spelljamming ship on Toril to get out of the Crystal Sphere?

Stars are 'holes' in the crystal sphere, which look out into the phlogiston. The phlogiston is the medium between the crystal spheres, highly flammable, that spelljamming vessels travel through to reach other crystal spheres. And note that the holes are the only way they can get through a sphere, which is otherwise impermeable. I'd have to get my spelljammer books out, and I will, but journey times vary according to the type of ship - some are noticeably faster - and the power of the spellcaster driving it. It's several days, certainly. A few weeks to a nearby sphere, such as Greyspace or Krynnspace.

[NiGHTMARE]

Also note that the planes have been radically reshuffled in 4th edition D&D. The ethereal plane and positive energy plane no longer exist, the outer planes are now all domains/planets in the astral sea, the elemental planes have been lumped into a singular plane called the Elemental Chaos (which also incorporates the Abyss), the plane of shadow and the negative energy have been merged together to become the Shadowfell, and the former demi-plane of faerie is now a full plane known as the Feywild. The Feywild and the Shadowfell are "sideways" to the campaign world (both being distorted echoes of it), while the Astral Sea is "above" the world, and the Elemental Chaos is "below".

Unlike in 3rd Edition, the Forgotten Realms cosmology and the generic setting cosmology are pretty much the same, the main difference being that FR has different domains within the Astral Sea due to the different deities in the setting.

AFAIK it hasn't entirely been made clear whether Toril is now a world in the Astral Sea, or if the Prime Material Plane and the Astral Sea are still separate. Spelljammer doesn't "officially" exist in 4th Edition (yet?), though many Spelljammer elements have been incorporated into the Astral Sea.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 18 August 2010 - 02:06 AM.

[Bluenose]

I'm sure I've seen a reference to 'astraljammers', which seem to be the equivalent to the old spelljammers. This would imply that the Astral is comparable to the old Phlogiston/Crystal Sphere system.

I'll add, Ravenloft also seems to have migrated. Instead of being a demiplane of its own, it's now a series of regions in the Shadowfell.

[Eric P.]

At the risk of necroposting here, I advise ignoring all Spelljammer-related materials in a BG context, as that whole idea was rendered obsolete at some point, development halted, etc.

[Eric P.]

Also, the changes to Abeir-Toril (and any other cosmologically specific changes) after the year 1369 DR don't apply in a BG context.