35 replies to this topic

[Calliea]

No, honestly.



First Viconia. I removed her from the party, at loss of what to do (every forum on the net just says it's romance-related or missing patch-related. Well I don't have a romance with her and I have all the patches installed). Now Neht'aniel.

I found some fancy tutorial here http://www.shsforums...ing-stuttering/, but it states clearly:

"This tutorial assumes you know the fundamentals of modding (creating a tp2, viewing/reading game resources and variables, understanding scripts)."

I don't even know what tp2 file does, I know nothing at all. I'm helpless. And there I thought ToB would bring me some bugless entertainment seeing how few mods affect it  

I just... please help me with that thing. I'm really on the verge of giving up the entire thing. I've tried removing some affects in SK or whatever, but it doesn't work. They walk, then stop, then don't attack. No AI helps with that. I've tried to trigger all reactions via ctrl-i but, yeah, it was just a silly idea of mine that did nothing.

[Hoppy]

No, honestly.



First Viconia. I removed her from the party, at loss of what to do (every forum on the net just says it's romance-related or missing patch-related. Well I don't have a romance with her and I have all the patches installed). Now Neht'aniel.

I found some fancy tutorial here http://www.shsforums...ing-stuttering/, but it states clearly:

"This tutorial assumes you know the fundamentals of modding (creating a tp2, viewing/reading game resources and variables, understanding scripts)."

I don't even know what tp2 file does, I know nothing at all. I'm helpless. And there I thought ToB would bring me some bugless entertainment seeing how few mods affect it

I just... please help me with that thing. I'm really on the verge of giving up the entire thing. I've tried removing some affects in SK or whatever, but it doesn't work. They walk, then stop, then don't attack. No AI helps with that. I've tried to trigger all reactions via ctrl-i but, yeah, it was just a silly idea of mine that did nothing.

One, you can try talking to the NPC by the F1 button or dialog button on the interface. It might be a dialog that is not firing but will if you try to talk to her personally because the conditions match but didn't in the script.

Another thing that could be going on is inter-party related stuff with modded NPC's or added content for NPC's related to dialogs (banters and such). If the checks are not strong enough or assume a certain NPC is in the party, then you can get stutters cause the bugged NPC tries to start a dialog with whomever and the receiver is not present.

Items can be a pain for stuttering too but only have equipped effects. Try dumping all equipment on the suspect NPC. If the stutter is still there, then we look at scripts and permanent effects.


You can try removing every single effect with Shadowkeeper in a test save-edit,then you can tell if it is some kind of effect currently applied. If in your test edit that you do not see improvement then you have your normal save point to restore your game to.




Who are the NPC's in your party? Are we talking about Neht'aniel as the problem in this case or Viconia? It could be other members in the party as well or lack of one to fulfill a certain dialog requirement.

Edited by Hoppy, 07 March 2010 - 12:56 PM.

[Calliea]

One, you can try force talking the NPC. It might be a dialog that is not firing but will if you try to talk to her personally because the conditions match.

Another thing that could be going on is interparty related stuff with modded NPC's or added content for NPC's related to dialogs (banters and such). If the checks are not strong enough or assume a certain NPC is in the party, then you can get stutters cause the bugged NPC tries to start a dialog with whomever and the receiver is not present.

Items can be a pain for stuttering too but only have equipped effects. Try dumping all equipment on the suspect NPC. If the stutter is still there, then we look at scripts and permanent effects.


You can try removing every single effect with Shadowkeeper in a test save-edit,then you can tell if it is some kind of effect currently applied. If in your test edit that you do not see improvement then you have your normal save point to restore your game to.

Who are the NPC's in your party? Are we talking about Neht'aniel as the problem in this case or Viconia? It could be other members in the party as well or lack of one to fulfill a certain dialog requirement.

I've tried force-talking as a first resort - no luck. In Viconia's case it was a usual "Viconia has nothing to say to you", in Neht's it's his usual talk when prodded by PC.

To the other point, I can't tell. I don't know Neht'aniel's content and I have Viconia's friendship mod installed, which is, as well, unknown to me when it comes to the ToB part.

Items aren't the issue, I'm afraid, killing NPCs is always my first "debugging" solution for whatever problems I may have Upon resurrection they have no items on, yet still stutter, both of them.

At the moment, I have in my party:

My PC, Kivan, Imoen, Jaheira, Neht'aniel and Viconia/Sarevok - Sarevok came after I removed Viconia because of her stuttering.

Removing affects via Shadowkeeper is... troublesome, in the least, as, contrary to, for example Imoen, they have pleeenty of them. I've removed some random from Viconia and I couldn't say as she got petrified, in a way. In a way, because she was in a party, but ctrl+R couldn't heal her. Damaging her just made her fall into pieces, like stone or the freezed characters do.

I don't know if problem would appear with other NPCs, but from the six that's been in my party since beginning of ToB, these two seem to be affected.

[Hoppy]

Does the stutter only happen in certain areas? Only Pocket PLane, dungeon, outside or is it universal ?

In the case of Viconia, having a look at scripts is a good idea because you may find a global or two to set to speed things up. Kind of like what we used to do in romance cheats manually.

Since we are talking ToB, the BALDUR25.BCS and the NPC xxxx25.BCS are reasonably smaller than the the preexpansion scripts.

I myself, for debugging purposes, would start deleting the content of scripts, say VICONI25.BCS, after making a backup of course. This will eliminate all triggers and actions for her to test.

Using Near Infinity would be easy here to just open the BCS you want to modify, and delete all the text as you would in any other text editor. Compile and save that bugger and load your game. See if he or she is still tweaking out. If not, then you know there is a trigger and action stalling in that script. Since you said AI was not the cause, then it is her personal script that I would test.

If you find the cause relating to her personal script, then restore the original from your special place (backup) and then the detective work begins. Using in game debugging like

CLUAConsole:GetGlobal("whatever","GLOBAL") will give you the current value of said global. For NPC's and dialogs it is more common to see "LOCALS" instead of "GLOBAL" and you would highlight the character or portrait to get that LOCALS variable. I usually do this work with my script open and the game and alt+tab back and forth to see the globals I want to check.

It sucks trying to debug stuff in your own game but if you find the cause it helps the modders update their babies for better compatibility. I think the rewards are great after the effort put in because you can potentially stabilize your game. If you screw things up, you made backups so you don't ruin anything permanently.

Good luck!

EDIT: With testing effects on the character, I would remove everything again to see if it is something related to that. Removing only one my result in not having a reciprocate effect like Stone to Flesh, Freedom or something similar.

Edited by Hoppy, 07 March 2010 - 03:28 PM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

I found some fancy tutorial here http://www.shsforums...ing-stuttering/, but it states clearly:

"This tutorial assumes you know the fundamentals of modding (creating a tp2, viewing/reading game resources and variables, understanding scripts)."

I don't even know what tp2 file does, I know nothing at all. I'm helpless. And there I thought ToB would bring me some bugless entertainment seeing how few mods affect it

Well, why don't you use the subset I made of it... and uploaded it into here: the LStest.zip that you need to download, exract and install... and I though that you read all the 23 points of the 'Mini infopack to avoid lags v1.7.8' guess who was wrong, big time... YOU!

CLUAConsole:GetGlobal("whatever","GLOBAL")

The ancient approach suitable for mod makers that get themselves killed doing that...

[Calliea]

I thought it was for the stutter as in a game lagging, not a character stopping to walk My bad, I guess

[Jarno Mikkola]

My bad, I guess

Näh, don't get discoraged... I actually don't know what to actually call either of them, but it's both in either case, but anyway... the lagging is usuaslly caused by other files making a havic of things, but some of them are also partly the AI's faults so that's why the advice is there in the FAQ.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 08 March 2010 - 03:35 AM.

[Hoppy]

[quote name='Jarno Mikkola' date='08 March 2010 - 02:28 AM' timestamp='1268044084' post='481018'

[quote name='Hoppy' date='08 March 2010 - 01:25 AM' timestamp='1268004320' post='480977']CLUAConsole:GetGlobal("whatever","GLOBAL") [/quote] The ancient approach suitable for mod makers that get themselves killed doing that...
[/quote]

Sometimes it is good to start simple I guess. It's a bitch debugging a megamod game whether it's a personal one or someone else's.

[Calliea]

I removed all affects from Viconia and she keeps stuttering (a reply to your edit above, Hoppy).

What's peculiar though, is that as long as she's in party (with her affects or not) Neht'aniel is not affected by the stutter. Does that give you guys any clue or should I still purge their .bcs files piece by piece?







"Näh" awesome, love that spelling

[Hoppy]

I removed all affects from Viconia and she keeps stuttering (a reply to your edit above, Hoppy).

What's peculiar though, is that as long as she's in party (with her affects or not) Neht'aniel is not affected by the stutter. Does that give you guys any clue or should I still purge their .bcs files piece by piece?







"Näh" awesome, love that spelling

I would try purging the script for Viccy and try the same techniques with Neh'Taniel, although I assume you tried booting him from the party and such. I have never played with him so I can't tell you if it could be related to his scripts as well. Anything is worth trying at this point.


EDIT: I reread your quote and it seems that it could be interrelated between Neh't and Viccy. Does one of them face the other when this stutter is taking place?

Edited by Hoppy, 08 March 2010 - 10:39 AM.

[Calliea]

Weird thing is, it only started in ToB. Before that, it was all good

I'll try purging them then... And that lstest thingie if purging doesn't work since it would require outer-intevention...

Edited by Calliea, 08 March 2010 - 10:41 AM.

[Hoppy]

Weird thing is, it only started in ToB. Before that, it was all good

I'll try purging them then... And that lstest thingie if purging doesn't work since it would require outer-intevention...

I see strong relationships between these two and their scripts. Probably a banter is trying to play out.

[Calliea]

I don't know... When ToB starts, Neh'taniel isn't present in the party, he leaves right before Irenicus is killed. I've checked that first save, before Illasera even, and Viconia lags there already. I kicked Neht later on, she still lags, but as long as she is present in the party he doesn't, when she is gone he takes up on the quest of stuttering. I haven't yet checked the bcs (was sleeping), but I wanted to see these options and least to say they make no sense to me

EDIT: Argh, I have no idea how to use NI. I don't even know what file to open (well .bcs, but where are they? I remember being able to view them all once, but it was long ago...) and how. Gods I feel like a moron now

Installed the LStest too, but I see I'm in the same moron-hole with that one

Edited by Calliea, 08 March 2010 - 01:47 PM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

EDIT: Argh, I have no idea how to use NI. I don't even know what file to open (well .bcs, but where are they? I remember being able to view them all once, but it was long ago...) and how. Gods I feel like a moron now

The FAQs to the rescue, answer #11.

[Calliea]

Oh I had it running, I just don't know what to do with it and where to find the .bcs files and all... Do I have to unbiff the game? I don't remember unbiffing it last time around though.

EDIT: Okay, found *something*. I ran the game and opened two saves... One where Vici lags, and one where Neht lags...

Moved to the planar sphere in both saves. It gives me a looped:

For Viconia:

Running block 4 of M#RUAD.BCS
Running block 2 of VICO25.BCS

Sure enough for Neht I get:

Running block 81 of M#RUAD.BSC
Running block 43 of SK#NEHT25.BCS

So then they *are* running *something* that causes them to lag.

Also brings another question - is this healthy that Ruad is constantly running these checks? No other character in planar sphere does that...

Edited by Calliea, 08 March 2010 - 02:06 PM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Oh I had it running, I just don't know what to do with it and where to find the .bcs files and all... Do I have to unbiff the game? I don't remember unbiffing it last time around though.

You do not need to unbif the game... you just open the NearInfinity....jar with the Java application, and then as it opens, do the configuration with Game -> Open Game... -> Get the path to the CHITIN.key file -> Open, you then push either the BCS folder, or the Override folder in the main view and search and take the file into further from the drop down tree.

Also brings another question - is this healthy that Ruad is constantly running these checks? No other character in planar sphere does that...

Uu-h, how I love to give the annoying answers that help no-one: It's not.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 08 March 2010 - 02:24 PM.

[Hoppy]

Running block 2 of VICO25.BCS

Running block 43 of SK#NEHT25.BCS

[/quote]

There are your ToB scripts

Open those with NI and the blocks will pertain to something that looks like this but yours may be different:

IF
	Global("ViconiaRomanceActive","GLOBAL",2)
	OR(2)
		Global("AerieRomanceActive","GLOBAL",2)
		Global("JaheiraRomanceActive","GLOBAL",2)
THEN
	RESPONSE #100
		SetGlobal("ViconiaRomanceActive","GLOBAL",3)
END

is a block

[berelinde]

Are you using any romance tweaks or cheats?

[Calliea]

@Imp

OH there you go. I didn't know I had to pick CHITIN.KEY and I was wondering why must I pick a .KEY file and nothing else gives any reasonable result. Thank you

So what to do with him? Ctrl-y? Poor fella...

@Hoppy

Thanks for clarifying that! Everyday I learn something new... Going to see about this.

@Berelinde

I think so. I haven't changed anything concerning those, but I'm pretty much sure BG2 Tweaks has their romance cheat picked as a default input least I have Saerlieth installed. Could that be an issue?



EDIT:

IF
	InParty(Myself)
	Global("I#ViconiaFriendship","GLOBAL",2)
	Global("I#ViconiaToBTalks","GLOBAL",0)
THEN
	RESPONSE #100
		ActionOverride(Player1,DisplayString(Myself,190236)) // Running block 2 of VICO25.BCS
		RealSetGlobalTimer("I#ViconiaToBTimer","GLOBAL",SIX_HOURS)
		SetGlobal("I#ViconiaToBStart","GLOBAL",1)
END

Party talk, is that the problem? Should I delete it or can I trigger it somehow so it would shut up?


WOW it makes AWESOME sense. No really, I'm astonished

IF
	InParty(Myself)
	InParty("Sarevok")
	Global("SK#NehtRomanceActive","GLOBAL",2)
	RealGlobalTimerExpired("N#LoveTalkTimeTOB","GLOBAL")
	Global("SK#SecondTalk","GLOBAL",2)
	Global("SK#SarevokTalk","GLOBAL",0)
	!StateCheck(Player1,CD_STATE_NOTVALID)
	!StateCheck(Myself,CD_STATE_NOTVALID)
THEN
	RESPONSE #100
		ActionOverride(Player1,DisplayString(Myself,184952)) // Running block 43 of SK#NEH25.BCS
		SetGlobal("SarevokTalk","GLOBAL",1)
END

There. And it DID start when I replaced Vici for Sarevok. Brilliant tool! BRILLIANT TOOL I tell you.

Now just how to trigger these... Or am I doomed?

Just to make sure - two of Neh'taniel's talks have activated and they worked fine.

Edited by Calliea, 08 March 2010 - 04:29 PM.

[Himself]

I probably missed the part where this started to be allowed, but SK#NEHT25.BCS is a 9 letters .bcs ^^