37 replies to this topic

[Miloch]

1. The goblins in irenicus' dungeon no longer drop composite longbows, but instead drop shortbows. This can be more reasonable depending on your point of view, but it also results in the inability to get a longbow (for people like minsc) until you meet the shadow thieves near the exit.

This is intentional. A four-foot creature with a 9 strength should not be able to draw a six-foot-long bow that requires an 18 strength. Even if they had the strength (though their maximum permitted STR is 15 according to the Complete Book of Humanoids) it would be rather impossible for them to draw the bowstring back far enough to shoot it effectively. On top of that, composite bows are rather complex, the use (and certainly the making) of which would be beyond the reckoning of goblins. (If we wanted to be *really* true to PnP, we'd give them all slings instead, since they prefer crude weapons, but they are obviously archers according to their animations.) There should only be one affected goblin from what I can tell - the first one in the corridor below (icgob02). The rest only have axes.

However, if it causes an issue, I guess I could put a longbow somewhere else in the dungeon. Probably just a normal longbow - composite bows should be rather rare in my opinion.

2. also related to the said goblins, they no longer have arrow shooting animations after installing this mod. Instead they stand around waving their axes. (they do still shoot arrows though, although it looks odd)

This is a bug. Fixed locally, cheers.

[Miloch]

There are actually alot of bow goblins in irenicus dungeon

Some of these must be controlled by spawn points, apparently linked to a hardcoded "rdgob" random goblin. I am considering putting in a hobgoblin archer or 3, who might just use longbows (even composite ones according to the Complete Book of Humanoids, though it'd have to be a hobgoblin champion with 18 STR to use it).

While I didn't test if it was specifically because of this mod, the spirit trolls at the druid grove no longer fall on the ground when near death, (I didn't try the spirit trolls elsewhere) and continue attacking you although they are still immune to most forms of damage as if they had fallen.

Aurora does nothing with spirit trolls or the druid grove. Try doing a 'weidu --change-log trolsi01.cre' from the command prompt in your game folder (see the pinned FAQ in the megamod forum if you need more help with that).

It's quite hard to test if this is the specific mod that makes this happen though, because this mod makes all saves made without it unplayable, and all saves made with it are likewise unplayable wihout the mod.

Pretty much all mods that add significant content do this, though Aurora is more intensive than some. You can narrow down the mod causing this by doing change-logs though.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Pretty much all mods that add significant content do this, though Aurora is more intensive than some. You can narrow down the mod causing this by doing change-logs though.

Especially if you upload the files(the backups with .000, .001, .002 ending) that are produced during the change-logging, as they will hold all the changes made to the files.

[Jarno Mikkola]

I supposed I can probably spawn a troll in game and kill it too, I think I'll try that out with and without the mod.

Yes, with the console, just insert this exact line of code, and push enter:

CLUAConsole:CreateCreature("trolsi01")

Hmm, it's actually the ringitem the troll actually has that makes them immune to the spells etc. but I don't have it's name, so it would need to be --change-log'ged too. And the .bcs file the creature is assigned with, as that should make it sleepy...

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 10 February 2010 - 03:31 AM.

[Miloch]

I followed the instructions and according to the console the mods affecting trolsi01.cre:
00000: ~bg2fixpack/setup-bg2fixpack.tp2~ 0 0 // bg2 fixpack - core fixes

That doesn't look right, because you *should* have another line at least for Aurora if you installed it right, because its random item routine touches it. But that's the only change it makes. Maybe you did that after you uninstalled Aurora?

As for uninstalling and reinstalling the mod regarding random stuff, I don't suppose it should make a huge difference. But then I never really tested doing that mid-game.

Can you attach your trolsi01.cre and trolsi01.bcs files from your override. Odd why it would be doing this... obviously something with the scripts and maybe an OnCreation() block in trolsi01.bcs. Maybe it's the one time we should use a Continue() but the troll has gensht01.bcs as its override script, and that doesn't have Continue() on every block, so in theory that should have the same effect as the script we add...

Edited by Miloch, 10 February 2010 - 04:01 AM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

I don't see how I'm supposed to attach the files to this post, there doesn't seem to be the option. I could email it if you like.

There is a requirement of membership and signing in... I think at least, as you then gain an Attachment window under the response one when you go through the "Add Reply" button.

[Miloch]

You'd have to register to attach a CRE, though you could post the contents of the script without doing that (decompiled with NearInfinity or DLTCEP). But you may as well register - only takes a few seconds and the forum doesn't spam you or anything unless you ask it to .

Edit: Jarno beat me by a fraction of a minute .

Edited by Miloch, 10 February 2010 - 04:19 AM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Edit: Jarno beat me by a fraction of a minute

Hih. Fast, the Imp is fast.
Or he could attach the file to somewhere else, like into here, especially if the files etc become too large to be in 512Kb's.

[persocom01]

Ok done.

Attached Files

•  trolsi01.bcs   806bytes   324 downloads
•  trolsi01.cre   1.17K   304 downloads

[Miloch]

Ok done.

I see, though I'm still not quite sure I understand why it's doing this.

Edit: can you see if putting this in your override folder helps. Overwrite the existing one if it asks, then try console-spawning a spirit troll.
 agrandbr.bcs   944bytes   307 downloads
If it doesn't, then delete the file and try again (it's the mod's file, so you're not deleting a game-critical file or anything).

Edited by Miloch, 10 February 2010 - 04:53 AM.

[persocom01]

mm the spirit troll didn't lie down with or without the file.

[persocom01]

I just installed the scs 2 (sword coast strategems) mod, but nothing related to trolls, so this probably (but might not) apply. Ice trolls at the druid grove do not fall when near death, but unlike the spirit trolls, the ice trolls remain standing but do not move or attack. I suspect this has to do with the animation (much like the goblins) rather than them actually not falling. Oh here's the lower part of my weidu log. (the rest is the same as the prevous post, except that 1 or 2 tactics components were removed in favor of scs 2)

~AURORA/SETUP-AURORA.TP2~ #0 #0 // Aurora's Shoes and Boots: v5
~AURORA/SETUP-AURORA.TP2~ #0 #10 // Small portraits for NPCs -> Merchants and minor NPCs: v5
~AURORA/SETUP-AURORA.TP2~ #0 #130 // Change store buying prices -> Increase by 150%: v5
~AURORA/SETUP-AURORA.TP2~ #0 #235 // Change gem and jewelry prices -> Increase by 150%: v5
~AURORA/SETUP-AURORA.TP2~ #0 #257 // Change quest gold rewards -> Fixes only: v5
~AURORA/SETUP-AURORA.TP2~ #0 #490 // Change creature gold carried -> Increase by 200%: v5
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #1000 // Detectable spells (required for most other components): v11
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #1020 // Bugfix: Fix the Mirror Image spell so it doesn't block area-effect magic: v11
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #1030 // Bugfix: Fix the Dispel Magic spell so it correctly allows for caster's level: v11
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #2070 // Blade Barrier and Globe of Blades only affect hostile creatures: v11
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #2080 // Cap damage done by Skull Trap at 12d6: v11
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #3530 // Faster Bears: v11
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #4010 // Make Freedom scrolls available earlier: v11
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #4030 // Retrieve Dropped Items from Hell: v11
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #4040 // Improved shapeshifting: v11
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #4050 // Make party members less likely to die irreversibly: v11
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #5000 // Ease-of-use party AI: v11
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #5010 // Remove animation from the Cloak of Mirroring (leave it for other spells and effects that use the same graphic): v11
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #6000 // Smarter general AI: v11
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #6010 // Better calls for help: v11
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #6020 // Potions for NPCs -> All of the potions dropped by slain enemies are recoverable: v11
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #6061 // Smarter genies -> Genies cast spells like normal wizards: v11
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #6081 // Smarter celestials -> Celestials cast spells like normal wizards: v11
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #6090 // Give dragons more staying power by increasing their hit points: v11
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #6101 // Smarter dragons -> Dragons cast spells like normal wizards: v11
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #6108 // Enemy mages (and Elder Orbs) use Simulacrum and Project Image spells (this component will have no effect unless you install Smarter Mages or Smarter Beholders): v11
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #6120 // Smarter mind flayers -> Illithids have only original-game resistances; Illithids cannot see invisible enemies (matches original game): v11
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #6135 // Smarter githyanki: v11
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #6136 // Add high-level abilities (HLAs) to ToB mages -> Only selected ToB mages get HLAs: v11
I didn't install the rest of it at the time of testing but yes there are more parts to that mod.

If my understanding is correct the original game replaced the trolls with another creature when they were near death, which is the reason your party changed targets when they fell. While I think you already know, the tactics mod says some things about how trolls are handled in game. (I didn't install this part of the mod though, so it has no effect on my game) From the tactics readme:

"This component changes the way the game handles trolls, substituting one
arbitrary hack job for another. In the unmodded game trolls carry a
special item that makes their minimum hit point value 1 (so they cannot
be killed). Their AI script constantly looks to see if their actual hit
points are below some value (usually 12). If they are, the troll is
replaced by a special alternate troll creature (the "lying down" one)
that has one hit point and lacks the special minhp item but is immune to
most types damage. Unfortunately, any number of situations can cause the
game to fail to check that script condition (e.g., the troll is held, or
many party members are beating on it at once), resulting in an
"unkillable" troll that sits arond soaking up blows until (e.g.) your
party walks away to give it time to "breathe and fall over"."

Edited by persocom01, 11 February 2010 - 04:55 AM.

[persocom01]

I don't think it's Aurora that's causing your trolls issue. I've made it through SoA and into ToB with a BWP 8.2 and Aurora v4 (with the fixes) and Aurora's WAY at the bottom of my install order.

I did notice that you didn't have this component installed:
~SETUP-TACTICS.TP2~ #0 #37 // Streamlined Trolls: BWP v8.2 Fix

Is it possible that lacking this component is causing your trolls issue? Try installing it and see if it works. If not, try installing:

~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #7020 // More resilient trolls: v11
or
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #7051 // Improved d'Arnise Keep ("Tactics Remix") -> Enhanced spirit trolls (as in Tactics): v11

and see if one of those components will fix your trolls issue.


Also, in my game, the Shadow Thief that Irenicus ganks in the opening cutscene had a longbow on his corpse. Seriously, though - Minsc?! Full plate and packing birchwood? WTF?!

Tactics streamlined trolls component actually changes the way trolls are handled in game. In tactics you can actually kill trolls using any form of damage, as far as my understanding goes, and they do not need to fall over anymore unlike an unmodded game. Tactics makes up for this by giving trolls resistances instead of minimum hp:

"This component changes that. Trolls lose their "minimum hit points = 1"
item, so they can be killed outright. As a result you will never end up
with an "immortal" troll. To compensate, trolls gain 66% physical
resistances to non-fire, non-acid, non-poison sources. This component
doesn't particularly make the game harder or easier, but it does mean
that troll group fights require less "constant vigilance" (to make sure
that your party isn't "wasting time" attacking a troll that isn't going
down)."

I did not install any component that modified trolls, thus my changelog for trolls only records the fixpack change. I also tested the spirit troll with and without aurora and it was more or less confirmed to be the cause. scs 2 more resilient trolls supposedly increases the hp of the fallen troll, as well as troll regeneration and is not completely compatible with tactics in the sense some aspects do not apply. (since trolls in tactics do not fall over at all) From the scs 2 readme:

"Compatibility between Tactics and SCS II depends on the components:

* Components which have a direct SCS II analogue: common sense applies, only install the ones you want. These are: Improved Bodhi, Improved Irenicus in Hell, Improved D'Arnise Keep, Improved Kangaxx, Improved Mind Flayers, Smarter Dragons, Smarter Beholders, Slightly Smarter Mages and Liches, Slightly Tougher Demons, Streamlined Trolls (which overlaps with SCS II's "Resilient Trolls"), Tougher Druid Grove (the Faldorn part ovelaps with SCS II's) Improved Faldorn, Improved Sahuagin City, and Improved Demon Knights (which overlaps with SCS II's Improved Fiends component)."

The shadow thief in the opening cutscene is supposed to drop nothing since he was disintegrated as far as I know. (did you install a no item loss on disintegration mod?) It's also possibly because you installed BWP on your game since aurora is part of the big world program or something. For me though, I'm wary of mega mods since the last time I had some on my game, it broke it. (that though, was some time ago and I'm sure things have been fixed) In an unmodded game ranged attackers are strong since they are able to target an enemy most of the time instead of colliding with each other half the time. I dislike having more than 2 melee, (which in my game, was my pc and jaheira, who has better tanking abilities than minsc) but to each his own. Minsc aside, I'm sure there will be players who will start as an archer pc with longbow specialisation.

Edited by persocom01, 11 February 2010 - 09:07 PM.