34 replies to this topic

[Tempest]

With more and more folks getting ME2 and hoping to survive the suicide mission with everyone still alive, I thought I'd offer my thoughts and experiences - I think this is a complete list in the final section.

Spoiler Warning

The Point of No Return

Spoiler

Eventually in the campaign, you will be asked to go to the Hawking Eta cluster for the next major storyline mission. This mission is the point of no return - once you do the mission in Hawking Eta, a timer will start for the endgame sequence.

Do EVERYTHING before traveling to Hawking Eta - you will have just enough time to earn the loyalty of the party member you recruit at Hawking Eta before the endgame starts.

Things to do before the point of no return

Spoiler

First, you want to do the personal missions of everyone - you will not have the time to do more than one personal mission after Hawking Eta, and you will need that time for the personal mission of the final party member, whom you recruit at Hawking Eta. Doing everyone's personal mission is not required, but it will dramatically raise their chance of survival. If absolutely nothing else, do Tali's, Miranda's or Garrus', and Samara's or Jack's - otherwise, their chance of dying in the suicide mission will be much higher.

You will want the following Normandy upgrades at minimum:

Silaris Plating (Talk to Jacob or do his personal mission - apparently you can just talk with him, but I always had to do his mission to unlock this research)
Cyclonic Shielding (Talk to Tali or do her mission)
Thanix Cannon (Talk to Garrus or do his mission)

I say again, do everyone's personal missions before Hawking Eta

After the point of no return

Spoiler

Talk to Legion, you should immediately get its personal mission. Do it - you should have just enough time to do it before everything goes to hell.

After everything goes to hell

Spoiler

Head to the Omega-4 Relay IMMEDIATELY - if you do anything but head for the Relay immediately, almost all of the crew will die - and coincidentally, make it harder to keep one particular pesky party member alive. If you ignored my advice and didn't make everyone loyal, it's your call - save the Normandy crew, or get your team a higher chance of survival?

The mission itself

Spoiler

Note that I'm assuming you've made everyone loyal.

First, you will need to choose a tech specialist. I have personally seen Legion and Tali do this successfully. However, know that whether they live or die doesn't depend on who the tech specialist is, but who the strike team leader is.

For the strike team leader, Garrus, Miranda, and Jacob all do well - if you make a bad call with this choice, your tech specialist will die.

If the Normandy crew is still alive, you should send someone to escort them back - otherwise, they will all die. Any party member can do this successfully, provided they are loyal. However, unless you are using him in your active party, I highly recommend Mordin to do this - if he's not in your party and isn't escorting the Normandy survivors, he will die.

You will need a diversion team leader - again, I've used Garrus, Miranda, and Jacob for this, and they did it successfully.

You will need a biotic specialist - I have used Samara and Jack, and they did it well. Note: despite what she claims, choosing Miranda for this job will NOT end happily.

After this, you have to choose your team for the final battle - it's possible for party members to die in the ending cutscene. Your chosen teammates must be loyal, or they will die in the ending cutscene. If Mordin wasn't sent to escort the Normandy survivors and wasn't in your active party, he has a habit of dying in the ending cutscene - don't know how to prevent this beyond sending him with the survivors.

Mind you, I don't guarantee any of this - it's possible I'm wrong on some things, but this is my experience, and hopefully it will be of use.

Edited by Tempest, 07 February 2010 - 08:34 PM.

[Darziak]

For the first part I chose

Spoiler

Tali for tech and Garrus for strike.

For the second part I chose

Spoiler

Jacob to go back with team, Garrus for diversion and Samara for biotics.

For the final team I chose

Spoiler

Tali and Garrus.

I didn't have grunt with the team.

[Tempest]

Updated my list of the people I've seen do each job successfully. Completed my third run, got everyone out alive.

[SConrad]

I lost two party members on my first (and currently only) play-through, despite having done all loyalty quests and ship/personal upgrades. I didn't do all of the armor/shield/weapon upgrades, so that might have had something to do with it.

For more details, see:

Spoiler

I lost Thane and Mordin. I used Thane as my tech specialist, Miranda leading both strike and diversion teams. Samara was the second specialist and Jacob escorted the crew back. Next time up, I'll go with Legion and Samara as specialists.

I wonder if game difficulty has anything to do with who dies and doesn't. Anyone know?

[Tempest]

It doesn't. You made two bad calls - your tech specialist (you sent someone without any tech skills as the tech specialist...), and you didn't sent Mordin on the job guaranteed to keep him alive. As I've noticed, Mordin is tricky unless you use the one job that is guaranteed to be done by anyone, so long as they're loyal.

[SConrad]

Well...

Spoiler

I thought Thane would be well suited for an infiltration mission. Clearly I was wrong and will send Legion next time. As for Mordin--had no idea that you had to send him back.

[Tempest]

Well...

Spoiler

I thought Thane would be well suited for an infiltration mission. Clearly I was wrong and will send Legion next time. As for Mordin--had no idea that you had to send him back.

Spoiler

The game specifically asks you to sent a Tech Specialist - that's what the person you choose for that job is tagged as on the party selection screen. As for Mordin: he's tough to keep alive, for precisely that reason. Not sure why he dies if he's neither in your active party for the final battle nor was sent back with the Normandy survivors, but that's the way it is. My second game got everyone but Mordin out alive because I did the same thing. Now I - and you - know better.

[Philiposophy]

I lost two on my first run.

Based on what has been said above I think I know why:

Spoiler

I picked Legion as my tech specialist but he (it?) was killed. I guess it was because I chose Thane as the leader. I chose him because the suggestion was for an experienced leader, hence I picked the veteran assassin. Miranda criticized me for it, and I guess there was more to what she was saying than I thought (that she would say something for whoever was picked).

Spoiler

I also lost Jack since she was killed on the way out. I lost her loyalty earlier for siding with Miranda when they had an argument. I didn't have enough Paragon or Renegade points at the time to get them to reconcile.

[Darziak]

Spoiler

I picked Legion as my tech specialist but he (it?) was killed. I guess it was because I chose Thane as the leader. I chose him because the suggestion was for an experienced leader, hence I picked the veteran assassin. Miranda criticized me for it, and I guess there was more to what she was saying than I thought (that she would say something for whoever was picked).

Well...

Spoiler

Thane usually works alone so I think him more of a follower than a leader.
Also pointing out his background shows: From Thane's perspective, his body is the weapon wielded by his employers

[Vicen]

Well I beat it last night thankfully nobody died...but then again I followed your advice right when I got to the Relay...One thing to note though however is that in the begin when you choose the 2nd team's leader I choose Zaeed to lead a team...but after reading your note I reloaded and then choose Garrus...However Miranda said the same thing to me about Garrus as she Did Zaeed...so Im quite sure its ok to use him to lead the 2nd team in the begin if you choose too

[Tempest]

I lost two on my first run.

Based on what has been said above I think I know why:

Spoiler

I picked Legion as my tech specialist but he (it?) was killed. I guess it was because I chose Thane as the leader. I chose him because the suggestion was for an experienced leader, hence I picked the veteran assassin. Miranda criticized me for it, and I guess there was more to what she was saying than I thought (that she would say something for whoever was picked).

Spoiler

I also lost Jack since she was killed on the way out. I lost her loyalty earlier for siding with Miranda when they had an argument. I didn't have enough Paragon or Renegade points at the time to get them to reconcile.

Spoiler

Yes, Thane is a bad choice as either team leader, and anyone who isn't loyal tends to die on the way out.

[vilkacis]

Just beat it

Lost one. Annoying.

Spoiler

Jack seemingly-randomly decided to get herself eaten by bugs at the end of the "biotic barrier" section. I had Jacob as my barrier-maintainer; he seemed like the natural choice given that he actually has the barrier tech, but he was completely worn out towards the end, so my guess is that he just fails at that. Will replay using someone else at a later date.

Other choices were Legion as tech specialist, Grunt as bodyguard for the crew, and Garrus as leader for the second team (both times), and no problem there.

[Tempest]

Just beat it

Lost one. Annoying.

Spoiler

Jack seemingly-randomly decided to get herself eaten by bugs at the end of the "biotic barrier" section. I had Jacob as my barrier-maintainer; he seemed like the natural choice given that he actually has the barrier tech, but he was completely worn out towards the end, so my guess is that he just fails at that. Will replay using someone else at a later date.

Other choices were Legion as tech specialist, Grunt as bodyguard for the crew, and Garrus as leader for the second team (both times), and no problem there.

Spoiler

Yes, you lost Jack because you chose Jacob to maintain the barrier - like Thane, he is biotic, but isn't a very powerful one. You need someone of Samara's or Jack's caliber to maintain the barrier. The party member who dies if the biotic specialist is a bad call is randomly chosen.

[vilkacis]

Well, poopie.


Anyway, switching the biotics' positions worked better.

Spoiler

(Also, need avatar change for the lulz.)

Edited by vilkacis, 13 February 2010 - 10:15 AM.

[Philiposophy]

Got everyone out alive on my second playthrough (as a renegade soldier).

Spoiler

Tali was my tech specialist and Samara held the biotic barrier. Miranda led the fire team both times. Mordin escorted the crew back to the Normandy. Took Miranda and Samara to deal with the Human-Reaper embryo. Everyone was loyal.

[Eleima]

Wow, guys!! Thanks for the extremely useful thread! I just finished my first playthrough and lost a single crew member, and I couldn't quite figure out why, but now I (kinda) get it. Here's what I did:
Tech specialist:

Spoiler

Tali

Strike team leader:

Spoiler

Garrus

Biotic specialist:

Spoiler

Samara

Diversion team leader:

Spoiler

Miranda

Escorting Normandy team:

Spoiler

Garrus

(this is where I went wrong, I believe)
Squad to take out final boss:

Spoiler

Grunt & Thane

As you can probably guess, the team member I lost was

Spoiler

Mordin

.

*runs off to try and get the "No One Left Behind" achievement*

[WeeRLegion]

Hm.

Third playthrough finished a lil while ago. Yet to succeed with 0 casualties.
1st run went right except for picking the wrong specialists.
2nd run went right, except I was RPing a Shepard with a functional moral compass, so she failed at getting Zaeed's loyalty >>> Zaeed kicked the bucket.
3rd run, I wasn't playing an extreme enough Shepard to get the necessary renegade/paragon points to properly settle team disputes, so Legion & Miranda bought it.

4th run now, Hardcore difficulty, and I'm thinking the renegade/paragon point gains are reduced for harder difficulties, which sucks ass. I want harder combat dammit, not more coffins. xD
***Jjust wrapped up the second recruitment round, and though I've played a far meaner shepard than on my first run, my scores are still hanging halfway through the second block... *sigh* xD


I'm starting to very much dislike the simplistic mechanic of 'everyone who is not loyal dies'. Success should depend on able leadership, not so much on silly likes and dislikes.
Except for Jack, I couldn't imagine anyone being damaged enough to bother with hating Shepard in the middle of a bullet rain. xP

[Tempest]

It's not based on likes and dislikes - that's not exactly what the loyalty system is about. A character not loyal is a character not completely focused on the mission and what's at stake. Jacob will still be wondering about his father, Jack will still be the loose cannon without any catharsis, Grunt will be trying and failing to contain his irrational rage, etc.

[WeeRLegion]

Well, I failed at eloquence there.

It's still an unnecessarily straightforward system; not loyal/loyal ===> dead/not dead.

Once you know what specialists to send where, you'll know beforehands which team members are going to die and which are going to live, which is annoying.

[Dark-Mage]

Quick question regarding Mordin. Going to mput it in spoiler tags though, just in case :-)

Spoiler

Does in die in the final fire fight even if he is loyal? And are there any other examples of loyal characters dieing?