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Dragon Age 2 Speculation


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#1 Archmage Silver

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 12:06 PM

I'm starting a thread for this since it's obviously an interesting topic here. Discuss anything and everything regarding Dragon Age 2 here.

I've added a spoiler warning about Dragon Age: Origins spoilers in the topic description, but if you feel like using spoiler tags, go ahead.

Let the speculation begin!

Some posts from the favorite companion poll:
http://www.shsforums...post__p__475524
http://www.shsforums...post__p__475681
http://www.shsforums...post__p__475913
http://www.shsforums...post__p__475943
http://www.shsforums...post__p__475953
http://www.shsforums...post__p__475956
http://www.shsforums...post__p__475962
http://www.shsforums...post__p__475964
http://www.shsforums...post__p__475966

Edited by Archmage Silver, 19 January 2010 - 12:11 PM.


#2 Eleima

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 02:00 PM

(continuing speculation from the "Favorite Companion" thread)

(I do not know if the Old God's soul "kills" the soul of the one-day-old unborn baby - that confuses me. But it seems that it's the developers intent to make us believe there's only one soul involved: a soul of an Old God; and an one-day-old child does not have a soul - in that world, at least).

Well, I'm not going to gross out anyone with the details, but from what I know of physiology, there's even a good chance that there would be no "baby" to speak of (it can take from 12 hours to 3 days for the whole migration and fertilization process to take place), which kind of puts the whole ritual into question, in my opinion... And that's from a purely biological point of view, because we could argue til trumpets sound and angels sing about whether or not a two-cell embryo has a soul or not.


To me Morrigan's deal seems rather noble: it is, in fact, saving a soul. Saving a soul of an Old God. An Old God may decide to become a great healer or a great villain - it would, however, be his choice.


I was under the impression, from the Codex and the explanations from other characters, that the Old Gods themselves are not tainted - but they become corrupt the instant the darkspawn find them, as the Old Gods, even uncorrupted, call to the darkspawn, given how intimately the Old Gods and darkspawn are connected.

Presumably, if all the Old Gods are destroyed, the darkspawn will be defeated, or at least forever crippled (I think... depends on what all we learn in Awakening). The price to destroy an Old God is the willing sacrifice of a tainted soul. Grey Wardens are supposed to leave their names and lives behind when they become Grey Wardens - they are not supposed to do things like marry a king or queen. From the beginning, a Grey Warden's life is sacrifice. To attempt to escape that obligation and necessity is cowardice and selfishness - and it's as merciful an end as a Grey Warden could ask for, especially for a woman.


Funny how a single act can be perceived completely differently by different people, that's what I love about these kinds of debates. As for the Old Gods, I completely agree that we're talking about corrupted Old Gods, in the sense that they're not the original Old Gods, and that those gods may very well have been your run-of-the-mill gods, if we can call them thus (all I'm saying is that they weren't necessarily good or evil to start out). The point I was trying to make is that if you account for one corrupted Old God per Blight, and assume that the archdemon was dispatched in the traditional way, well, that would still leave for two more potential archdemon lying dormant somewhere in the Deep Roads, which would leave room for two sequels, one per Blight. But like I said, I'm also waiting to see what Awakening and other expansions will bring, as they will probably bring us more answers to our questions.

Then again, perhaps the folks at Bioware haven't started plotting out the sequels... ^_^

Edited by Eleima, 19 January 2010 - 02:01 PM.

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#3 Tempest

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 02:21 PM

It's explicitly stated that the Old Gods of the Tevinter Imperium weren't really gods - they were old and very powerful dragons that the Tevinter worshiped, similar to the Cult of Andraste in Haven. The entities that may or may not exist with real claims to godhood are the Maker and the Creators. For all the stuff in the Gauntlet, my Dalish elf saw stranger things in the Brecilian Forest, and the Guardian died like anything else when she tired of proving herself to a nonexistent deity and simply walked through the barrier of fire in front of the Urn - and she took the ashes anyhow.

Morrigan's ritual will probably bring nothing but trouble - if nothing else, I don't exactly trust Morrigan's capacity to be a good mother...

"The righteous need not cower before the drumbeat of human progress. Though the song of yesterday fades into the challenge of tomorrow, God still watches and judges us. Evil lurks in the datalinks as it lurked in the streets of yesterday, but it was never the streets that were evil." - Sister Miriam Godwinson, Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri


#4 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 03:19 AM

Morrigan's ritual will probably bring nothing but trouble - if nothing else, I don't exactly trust Morrigan's capacity to be a good mother...

What, you don't trust a witch whose mother was a demon that would have eventually consumed her soul and taken the body as its own? Hmm, who can you trust then?

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 20 January 2010 - 01:44 PM.

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#5 Archmage Silver

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 12:03 PM

To me the possibility of a sequel based on the assumption that you accepted Morrigan's proposition (or Alistair did) and that the child conceived during the ritual will posses the soul of an ancient dragon, sounds a bit too obvious. It's almost as if it's presented like that to persuade people into thinking that's what's going to happen.

Obviously it would completely disregard the continuity for players who didn't go along with the Dark Ritual, so it wouldn't be my first choice as it would probably mean that BioWare would use their own "canon" story to make other decisions of the same magnitude as well.

Of course, I realize that continuity will be sacrificed in some respects for DA2, but I just think that the whole dragon spirit thing is a bit too obvious to be the center piece of the DA2 plot.

#6 Eleima

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 01:53 PM

Gosh, I *really* hope they won't go with that... I only had *two* playthroughs (out of 8, I think) in which I opted for Morrigan's Dark Ritual. Old God or not, corrupted or not, you're still messing with nature by putting another soul in a human's body, and that's just wrong. Not to mention waaaay obvious as Archmage Silver pointed out.
The only way they can avoid setting a canon ending, I believe, would be to fast forward a few hundred years in the future and tackle the sixth Blight, I think. But of course, that's just me.

And I agree with Tempest. Morrigan would be a *horrible* mother. ^_^

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#7 Kulyok

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Posted 20 January 2010 - 10:24 PM

I've heard Morrigan might be present in the sequel, as so far she's kind of the "symbol" of the Dragon Age universe.

By the way, you guys and ladies ever thought of Valygar in connection to her? I mean, Valygar-Lavok story and Flemeth-Morrigan story; it sometimes seems to me they tried to take the "yummy" things out of Baldur's Gate and place them into Dragon Age universe. Well, the difference being that Anomen would've never dumped PC for the crown. :)

#8 Tempest

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 05:12 AM

I hope Morrigan isn't in the sequel - for all that she's considered a symbol of Dragon Age, I feel she's the character who runs counter to the primary theme of Dragon Age: duty, to the point of self-sacrifice when need be. It's drummed into you from the moment you're taken in by Duncan that you're a Grey Warden now, not a human noble or city elf or Dalish - your duty and responsibility as a Grey Warden must be your highest concern, and Wynne also reinforces this theme, explicitly forewarning you that you might have to make a choice between love and duty, and that as a Grey Warden, it is your responsibility to choose duty because no one else can.

Then Morrigan comes along ten minutes before the end and lets you make a mockery of everything the Grey Wardens stand for.

"The righteous need not cower before the drumbeat of human progress. Though the song of yesterday fades into the challenge of tomorrow, God still watches and judges us. Evil lurks in the datalinks as it lurked in the streets of yesterday, but it was never the streets that were evil." - Sister Miriam Godwinson, Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri


#9 Archmage Silver

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 09:37 AM

Well, since her involvement in the sequel appears to be so obvious (too obvious) you could think of it like this:

Scenario I:
The Dark Ritual is performed
Morrigan is with child (The Dark Ritual)
The child has a dragon soul
Result: Morrigan is in

Scenario II:
The PC romances Morrigan
The Dark Ritual isn't performed
Morrigan leaves pre-final battle
Morrigan is with child (PC romance)
BioWare establishes a plot line of Morrigan following the player secretly to Denerim during the final battle
In the end Morrigan absorbs the dragon soul into her child using Flemeth's ritual
The child has a dragon soul
Result: Morrigan is in

Scenario III:
The Dark Ritual isn't performed
Morrigan leaves pre-final battle
Morrigan is with child (BioWare writes her having an affair with some random NPC)
BioWare establishes a plot line of Morrigan following the player secretly to Denerim during the final battle
In the end Morrigan absorbs the dragon soul into her child using Flemeth's ritual
The child has a dragon soul
Result: Morrigan is in

Basically I'm just outlining how BioWare can screw continuity and get away with it. Now that I've thought of it, it does seem like a plausible option. Not a one I would prefer though.

#10 Tempest

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 09:55 AM

Not possible. The way the ritual seems to work, Morrigan's presence anywhere in Denerim (you can leave her at the city gate) keeps a Grey Warden from dying at the cost of potentially dooming the world and spitting on everything the Grey Warden's stand for in one phenomenally selfish and short-sighted act. Exactly one subset of the endings, the least satisfying and one with no emotional impact, has no Grey Warden die.

I really hope DA2 moves to a different part of the world or to a large time-jump, so we can forget that Morrigan and her deus ex machina (or would it be diabolus ex machina...) ever happened.

Edited by Tempest, 21 January 2010 - 09:56 AM.

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#11 Archmage Silver

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 11:35 AM

Never say never, I've seen stranger continuity fumbles.

#12 Tempest

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 11:55 AM

I have higher hopes for Bioware than, say, Blizzard.

"The righteous need not cower before the drumbeat of human progress. Though the song of yesterday fades into the challenge of tomorrow, God still watches and judges us. Evil lurks in the datalinks as it lurked in the streets of yesterday, but it was never the streets that were evil." - Sister Miriam Godwinson, Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri


#13 Archmage Silver

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 12:08 PM

So do I. It just concerns me that they'll start dumbing things down to gain added mainstream popularity on the expense of quality (like Blizzard and WoW).

Maybe I'm just unnecessarily pessimistic, but that seems to be the way with the industry these days, not counting indie developers.