16 replies to this topic

[Miloch]

I've finished coding "phase 2" of the installer. Phase 1 was detailed here. It included the main .exe patch, necessary patches for mod-added creatures and a few optional component prototypes. Phase 2 has finished the optional components which use all possible existing animations in any type of ToB engine install (BG2, Tutu, BGT, BWP). Phase 3 will handle animation sound slots. There probably won't be much development necessary after that, except documentation and ongoing work (new animations, fixes etc.).

As of phase 2, the installer includes the following components. The number is the component DESIGNATED number which gives it a fixed install position, lets other components detect it and so on. These can be changed, rearranged etc. (before release anyway).

All subcomponents require the main component (they need to since it's the one that installs new content). All components are otherwise optional. Also note that no component affects joinable NPCs, something best left to individual modder discretion. (Hence, if something says it affects all female tieflings, it doesn't include Amber and Fade in that.) Some sections are provisional for now, unless or until someone comes up with a more fitting animation (though I think they're all better than the unmodded alternatives, or they wouldn't be there at all).

0. Infinity Animations
Requires ToB v26498
- Checks mod files and .exe validity
- Backs up and patches the .exe
- Restores and necessary mod-overwritten animations
- Copies new animations (any extracted to /content folder)
- Fixes any affected creatures
- Updates .ids files

50. Distinctive Genies
Requires IA_Fiends_Genies.rar
- Uses djinn, efreet, dao, jann and marid animations where sensible

100. Distinctive Fiends
Requires IA_Fiends_Genies.rar, IA_IWD.rar and IA_PST_Abishai.rar
Requires IA_NWN_01_Modron.rar only if certain mods are installed
- Nabassus get a green-grey tanar'ri animation
- Chromatic Demon gets a somewhat more colourful base animation
- Bebiliths (Longer Road and Drizzt Saga only) get the NWN animation
- Some mariliths get a darker animation
- Gelugons (only if added by a mod) get the NWN osyluth animation
- Yochlols (except those in drow form) get a dark otyugh-based animation
- White, green and red abishai get the relevant IWD or PST animations
- Manes get the IWD drowned dead animation
- Erinyes get a black-winged elf avatar
- Succubi get a red-winged elf avatar
- Maurezhi get a black lich animation (almost always the case anyhow)
- Glabrezu get the proper glabrezu animation

Pit Fiend Animations
150. All get the NWN animation
175. Some get the NWN animation
Requires IA_NWN_01_Modron.rar
- Choice of subcomponent (or none); "some" = roughly half, randomly selected

Cambion/Isair Animation
200. All cambions and male tieflings
210. All cambions only
220. Some cambions and male tieflings
230. Some cambions only
Requires IA_BGII_IWDII.rar
- Same logic as Pit Fiend component

Alu-Fiend/Madae Animation
260. All alu-fiends
270. Some alu-fiends and female tieflings
280. Some alu-fiends
290. Some alu-fiends and female tieflings[/b]
Requires IA_BGII_IWDII.rar
- Same logic as Pit Fiend component

400. Distinctive Undead
Requires IA_Base_Anims.rar, IA_IWD.rar, Shadows_harpy_frostgiant.zip
(and perhaps an as-yet unnamed archive for MSH1 and MSH2 slots)
- Banshees get the wailing virgin animation
- Floating skulls get the demilich animation
- Greater ghasts get the IWD ghast animation*
- Generic ghosts get the IWD ghost animation
- Greater ghouls get the IWD ghoul animation*
- Greater liches get the IWD lich animation
- Apparitions get the mist creature animation
- Revenants get the revenant animation
- Shadow Beasts get the shadow animation
- Wraiths get the IWD large shadow animation
- Spectres get the IWD large shadow alternate
- Shadows get the IWD small shadow animation
- Some shadows get the IWD small shadow alternate
- Greater skeletons get the skeleton0 animation
- Skeleton warriors get the skeletona animation
- Moon horrors get the skeletonb animation
- Wights get the IWD grey wight animation
- Green zombies get the IWD green wight animation
- Zombie lords get the IWD yellow wight animation
- Undead knights and similar get the IWD barrow wight animation
- Greater zombies get the IWD yellow zombie animation
- Lacedons and sea zombies get the IWD blue zombie animation
(*Not sure about ghasts and ghouls - should this be swapped; i.e. should the "greater" ones have the BG2 animation, which is more beast-like or the IWD one which is more human-like?)

Seer Animation
450. Some beggars and slaves
455. Some beggars
460. Some slaves[/b]
Requires IA_IWD.rar
- Same logic as Pit Fiend component

480. Svirneblin Animations
Requires IA_IWD_Svirfneblin.rar
Skipped if Aurora's Shoes installed (does the same thing)
- Uses all svirfneblin variants for Underdark deep gnomes

500. More Base Animations
Requires IA_Base_Anims.rar
- Histachii get the IWD histachii animation
- Lizardman warriors get the brown lizardman animation
- Lizardman shamans get the green lizardman animation
- Lizardman chiefs get the lizard king animation
- Variant trolls (normal, blue, ice, snow, small) where relevant
- Greater umber hulks get the IWD umber hulk animation

550. More Icewind Dale Animations
Requires IA_IWD.rar
- Animated Plates get animated plate animations
- Archdruids get the IWD Arundel animation
- Variant barbarians (brown, red, tan and shamans)
- Greater elementals make use of variant BG2/IWD animations
- Some fire giants get the IWD fire giant animation
- Iron golems get the IWD iron golem animation
- Adamantite golems get the BG2 iron golem animation
- Sahuagin priestesses get the IWD sahuagin animation
- Sahuagin royal guards get the BG2 large sahuagin animation
- Sahuagin chiefs get the IWD large sahuagin animation

600. More Icewind Dale II Animations
Requires IA_BGII_IWDII.rar
- Greater fire giants and firbolgs get the fire giant variant
- Variant goblins (worgriders, leaders, browns, greens, elites)
- Hook horrors get the hook horror animation
- Shadow druids get the Malarite animation
- Death tyrants get the death tyrant animation
- Wererat gets the wererat animation
- Worgs get the IWD2 worg animation

650. More Neverwinter Nights Animations
Requires IA_NWN_01_Modron.rar
- Greater basilisks get the NWN basilisk animation
- Modrons get the modron animation

There is supposed to be some logic to these components . Some of the groupings might not make much sense, but apart from the larger components (such as fiends and undead) I have tried to group them to have as few requirements as possible, which mainly involves downloading the large archives. Other components need to be separate because they require a choice of subcomponents. Even with broad groupings for the rest, there are 13 components. But they could be separated, combined or rearranged further if it makes sense. If you really want this installed properly, you will need to download and extract all archives anyhow.

I can upload a phase 2 package for testing and archival purposes, but I want to make sure there aren't any flames objections first . Also, I need some questions answered that I've asked in various threads here before finalising this phase and moving on to the sounds, which we'll need to address one way or another.

If you wait with the succubi for a bit, that's one of the NWN animations I've mostly ported.

Any word on this? I don't really need the actual animation just now, but the slot ID and the name you're going to call the archive would be helpful for coding purposes. And is there anything that could be used (perhaps a recolour) for an erinyes?

There is another issue with the IWD Marilith too. It freezes in about mid cycle. When it rotates from right to left and back to center, it'll pause there for about 3 seconds. Very noticeable and unnatural-looking, and the BG2 animation doesn't do it. Maybe a missing frame or sequence or something? I've noticed the same sort of thing with other IWD animations (like the svirfneblin) though for smaller ones it's not nearly as noticeable.

I haven't noticed the freezing thing, will test later.

Is it fixable? I've used the IWD animations anyway, but I don't really like the freezing at all.

You're right about the MSH1/MSH2 references. I must've missed the slots when I wrote the list? I don't know. I guess I might fill them with slight variants/recolours.

did you get around to editing the duplicate IWD shadows yet? I haven't used those slots yet either - just the default MSH1 and MSH2 ones. I think we could use greyish versions of them though, since the existing ones are black and the IWD Ghost looks like just a white version of MSH1.

Do you have time to repalette these or do you want me to butcher them? It looks like Arkenor's "Shadows_harpy_frostgiant" archive that should be updated with the alternates though, and the original MSH1/MSH2 animations should be added to IA_Base_Anims, since those are all slots that can be used pretty much as-is. Regardless, I need to know the animation IDs and archive names.

I don't know how either IWD handles creature sounds. There's no equivalent .2da files, and the few CREs I looked at (such as svirfneblin) had nothing slotted for sounds - only a few animals like bears did (though I only looked at a few CREs). And I wouldn't know where to start looking in NWN - don't even have it installed, though I think I do have it somewhere.

So how do we want to do this? I could just assign the CREs the closest thing in BG2 unless there are known sound clips to be ported, but it seems a bit suboptimal. Belhifet, for example, clearly has sounds in IWD (belh_01.wav, belhif1a.wav, etc.) but they are referenced neither in the CRE file nor in 2DAs. There's no sound references even in his scripts. While it's easy enough to grab the sounds by prefix for some, I'm not sure there's even a logical correspondence of suffix number to sound slot, though there could be.

[Chevalier]

[Erephine]

- Skeleton warriors get the skeletona animation

Not sure about this one... I loved the skeleton warriors in BGI using the BGI skeleton animation because the animation supports character shield/helmet/weapon animations where the Skeleton A animation doesn't. It's a matter of taste, I guess

- Banshees get the wailing virgin animation
- Archdruids get the IWD Arundel animation

I'm not sure about the Wailing Virgin, but I know the Arundel one doesn't originally have a full animation series. I did fill the "Placeholder" frames from IWD but make sure these animations have sensible content for the needed sequences (at the very least casting, dying, attacking for those two I imagine).

Any word on this? I don't really need the actual animation just now, but the slot ID and the name you're going to call the archive would be helpful for coding purposes. And is there anything that could be used (perhaps a recolour) for an erinyes?

It's still coming. The animation will have three weapon overlays, so it takes a while to build (effectively four animations).

Is it fixable? I've used the IWD animations anyway, but I don't really like the freezing at all.

I've given it a look, and I see what you mean; basically it's intentional. It's just extra frames in the SD/SDE .BAM files that were taken out for the BGII variants.

Do you have time to repalette these or do you want me to butcher them?

I'll see if I can edit his upload(?). If so, I'll see about adding some recolours.

So how do we want to do this? I could just assign the CREs the closest thing in BG2 unless there are known sound clips to be ported, but it seems a bit suboptimal.

The easy way would be assigning neutral .2da files (filling in nosound or something fairly generic for the walking sequence) and assigning .cre sounds where it makes sense for the problematic animations. For a more in-depth solution, one would have to look at all animations added with the identifier and then figure out a sound scheme that fits for all of them.

Note that this is only an issue for 'µ' prefix animations, all other prefixes can currently have their .2da files without problems.

[Miloch]

Consult sounds.ini for clues. This tends to get scrambled in TotL, resulting in default beetle crunchy sounds for everything, but it's easy enough to read the entries here back onto the creature files. It's basically a composite of foo.2da sound assignments.

Cheers, never thought to look at biffed INIs. Looks like PST has a similar file resdata.ini. (All this should really be in the IESDP somewhere...) So I guess I just need to install and hack around NWN for the few animations we use from it, if I can find the disk space. (Then think of some lazy way of autogenerating all the necessary code...)

- Skeleton warriors get the skeletona animation

Not sure about this one... I loved the skeleton warriors in BGI using the BGI skeleton animation because the animation supports character shield/helmet/weapon animations where the Skeleton A animation doesn't. It's a matter of taste, I guess

This is a consistency thing, because the greater number skeleton warriors already get the skeletonA animation. I suppose the skeleton animation might also make sense, but only if they're all wearing full armour (didn't check) because really, they shouldn't look like normal skeleton rabble. They're quite different - a lot more powerful and can't be turned, so they should look different IMO. I could also make it a separate component with different choices (adding to the number of components but whatever).

- Banshees get the wailing virgin animation
- Archdruids get the IWD Arundel animation

I'm not sure about the Wailing Virgin, but I know the Arundel one doesn't originally have a full animation series. I did fill the "Placeholder" frames from IWD but make sure these animations have sensible content for the needed sequences (at the very least casting, dying, attacking for those two I imagine).

Another consistency thing for the banshees - 4 out of 8 of them already use the wailing_virgin animation. 3 others use the sirine and 1 the female vampire . It is already in BG2, and has at least attack and casting sequences. I can't tell if it has proper death animations. It could be it isn't supposed to; as an insubstantial being it shouldn't leave a corpse, or fall down or the like.

Arundel has an attack sequence, casting, death etc. AFAICT. But you are the expert in determining if it's missing something.

The easy way would be assigning neutral .2da files (filling in nosound or something fairly generic for the walking sequence) and assigning .cre sounds where it makes sense for the problematic animations. For a more in-depth solution, one would have to look at all animations added with the identifier and then figure out a sound scheme that fits for all of them.

Note that this is only an issue for 'µ' prefix animations, all other prefixes can currently have their .2da files without problems.

Only those? I'm not sure about MTAN and maybe others - wouldn't they get shared between the female mariliths and male balor tanar'ri?

And is it necessary to assign walking sounds? None of the other 2DAs have them, so I thought the engine handled that somewhere. Or does it only do so for existing animations? Also, do you know offhand which animations might be "problematic"?

And before I forget, are there any existing dragons/wyverns who might use the IWD dragon or wyvern you just uploaded? Not sure, since dragons are a special case and there's an existing wyvern animation.

[Erephine]

Only those? I'm not sure about MTAN and maybe others - wouldn't they get shared between the female mariliths and male balor tanar'ri?

And is it necessary to assign walking sounds? None of the other 2DAs have them, so I thought the engine handled that somewhere. Or does it only do so for existing animations? Also, do you know offhand which animations might be "problematic"?

Yes, but they're already properly set up by the game. I meant conflicts where new slots are concerned.

The engine does handle them if they're not set from the .2da, which we want to avoid for animations where the hardcoded references mismatch. So yes, we'd want to set them. Problematic animations would be the µ prefix ones, since two might share a .2da.

Arundel has an attack sequence, casting, death etc. AFAICT. But you are the expert in determining if it's missing something.

Okay, I quickly checked. The issue I remembered with it was in fact the death animation... it's a special one (originally used in a cut-scene) in that it starts from the sleeping animation rather than the standing one. It might look weird, but feel free to check if it's okay.

You can cycle through animation sequences with Ctrl-S (and play them with Ctrl-A) if you have debug keys enabled.

And before I forget, are there any existing dragons/wyverns who might use the IWD dragon or wyvern you just uploaded? Not sure, since dragons are a special case and there's an existing wyvern animation.

I don't know. The wyvern is a recolour of the BGII one in a white/ice scheme so if there's any frost wyverns or wyverns in icy climate it would be appropriate.

I can't think of any white dragon in the game as it is.

[Miloch]

The wyvern is a recolour of the BGII one in a white/ice scheme so if there's any frost wyverns or wyverns in icy climate it would be appropriate.

I can't think of any white dragon in the game as it is.

Nothing like that even in a BWP install either. Closest thing to a white wyvern is a "Spirit Wyvern" added by "Azure NPC's Nature's Ally Druid Kit" which otherwise uses the wyvern_big animation. Not sure if it's worth bothering with. And no white dragons, ice drakes or anything either, only silver dragons which have their own slot (MDR3). Hmm there is a Yellow Dragon that uses the dragon_red animation, though maybe it has a colouring effect or something, dunno.

Edit: quick question as long as I'm looking at this archive - should the Lady of Pain be that size in BG2? Only the Planar Sphere mod uses it (as-is out of PST) so not a big issue... just wondering since I'm not sure what her height is supposed to be, but she looks a bit large.

Edited by Miloch, 22 December 2009 - 07:08 PM.

[Erephine]

She is whatever size she wants to be.

Click.

[melkor_morgoth75]

About Skeleton Warriors:

They're quite different - a lot more powerful and can't be turned, so they should look different IMO. I could also make it a separate component with different choices (adding to the number of components but whatever).

Yes please, if u can, optional component when there is a choice are always welcome

mm75

[Miloch]

She is whatever size she wants to be.

Doesn't really answer the question but... whatever. Not important right now, I guess.

Yes please, if u can, optional component when there is a choice are always welcome

Well it is part of an optional component but the argument is for making it a separate component with subcomponents (like there are for the seer, cambion components etc.). Which is fine for this one animation, but if we did it for every single animation here, it would be incredibly spammy if you ask me, as you'd have to answer hundreds of questions just to get this installed.

Erephine said the skeleton animation supports helm/shield/weapon animations. Does it support armour animations too? I can't recall seeing armour on a skeleton, but if not, then that animation isn't really appropriate either. A skeleton warrior is more like a fighting lich than a skeleton, and the closest thing we have that looks like it is the IWD barrow wight (which is more of an armoured skeleton than a wight in a PnP or Tolkien sense). Not that that's incredibly appropriate either, but it does support weapon/shield animations from what I can tell (and is already helmed and armoured).

Anyway, on a separate note regarding sounds. Do we want to convert them to .ogg and convert them back at install time as is the modding standard, or leave them as .wav (.wavc if possible)? The argument for the former is that it saves space but the latter is it avoids loss (.ogg is a lossy format) and batch file conversion. I would lean toward .wavc if we can do that for all files and the archive size isn't terribly different. Arkenor's Shadows_harpy_frostgiant.zip has sounds in both formats, so one or the other will need to be changed. Or both.

Which brings us to another question. Do we want to package the sounds and .2da files with the relevant animations or in a separate package? I suppose there are arguments for either approach there too but the former might make more sense.

NWN's file system is a complete mess by the way, from what I can tell. Moreover, there isn't a great tool I've found that allows you to search and browse files easily like NI or DLTCEP. The closest thing I found is NWN Explorer and its search function seems to do nothing at all. I've found the pit fiend and succubus soundsets, but nothing like a bebilith, osyluth, scarecrow etc. Oh and that reminds me, we still need that axe-wielding cow or whatever it is slotted, for complete compatibility. I doubt we'll be getting a soundset for that one easily .

Edited by Miloch, 23 December 2009 - 07:56 AM.

[Erephine]

I don't see the problem with NWN's file system? You can use NI just fine with the game, and from what I can see the sound references are quite neatly sorted in the corresponding .ssf files. (e.g. c_deer.mdl --> c_deer.ssf)

Doesn't really answer the question but... whatever. Not important right now, I guess.

Look at the image I linked.

[Jarno Mikkola]

She is whatever size she wants to be.

Doesn't really answer the question but... whatever. Not important right now, I guess.

Look at the image I linked.

Yeah, the Lady can be what ever size she wants to be, as she is the only god-like creature(she is not a god) in the 'city', so can be as small as a fly or as big as a giant, or the whole 'city'. But usually she is the size shown in the picture(a giant size).

[Miloch]

Like I said, it's not important about the Lady of Pain. Only one mod uses it and I doubt it even ported it properly (and I'm fairly certain it didn't resize it).

I do actually need some questions answered though, to proceed here. Hate to repeat myself, but:

Erephine said the skeleton animation supports helm/shield/weapon animations. Does it support armour animations too? I can't recall seeing armour on a skeleton, but if not, then that animation isn't really appropriate either. A skeleton warrior is more like a fighting lich than a skeleton, and the closest thing we have that looks like it is the IWD barrow wight (which is more of an armoured skeleton than a wight in a PnP or Tolkien sense). Not that that's incredibly appropriate either, but it does support weapon/shield animations from what I can tell (and is already helmed and armoured).

Anyway, on a separate note regarding sounds. Do we want to convert them to .ogg and convert them back at install time as is the modding standard, or leave them as .wav (.wavc if possible)? The argument for the former is that it saves space but the latter is it avoids loss (.ogg is a lossy format) and batch file conversion. I would lean toward .wavc if we can do that for all files and the archive size isn't terribly different. Arkenor's Shadows_harpy_frostgiant.zip has sounds in both formats, so one or the other will need to be changed. Or both.

Which brings us to another question. Do we want to package the sounds and .2da files with the relevant animations or in a separate package? I suppose there are arguments for either approach there too but the former might make more sense...

I've found the pit fiend and succubus soundsets [in NWN], but nothing like a bebilith, osyluth, scarecrow etc. Oh and that reminds me, we still need that axe-wielding cow or whatever it is slotted, for complete compatibility. I doubt we'll be getting a soundset for that one easily .

...

I don't see the problem with NWN's file system? You can use NI just fine with the game, and from what I can see the sound references are quite neatly sorted in the corresponding .ssf files. (e.g. c_deer.mdl --> c_deer.ssf)

Thanks, that is somewhat useful. I had no idea NearInfinity supported games other than Infinity Engine but I guess I didn't bother to check. Still, it doesn't even provide as much information as NWN Explorer (which incidentally shows you the models where NI says "unsupported file format"). The problem seems to be the add-ons and patches to NWN all keep their data stored in separate .key files rather than all in one place, so you have to drill through them separately for new models, soundsets etc. Anyhow, I went through all I could find with NWN Explorer (manually) and still couldn't find the stuff I mentioned. The Search feature doesn't seem to work in either tool. NI only looks for CREs, whereas NWN uses templates or some other format NI doesn't support.

[jube]

Hi

Am just about to release Greyhawk Artifacts 2, what is rapidly becoming a fairly big quest ( about 20 areas and 40 creatures etc... ) Since most of the plot takes part in the astral and outer planes i would LOVE to use IA slots and anims in my mod, i was wandering whats the chance of releasing a beta WeiDU installer? I hope to post my mod around friday, sunday if i can get IA into it, since its from the onset supposed to be BW compatible i think a WeiDU installer is essential if going to use IA at all.
I would be very happy with the beta code since have zero interest in adding sound slots.

BTW

fantastic job!! between this and TOBex i think its the best and certainly most usefull mod ever seen.

[Miloch]

Since most of the plot takes part in the astral and outer planes i would LOVE to use IA slots and anims in my mod, i was wandering whats the chance of releasing a beta WeiDU installer?

100%, since it is already released. If you want to include the relevant code in your mod, you'll need the 3 blocks that check and patch the .exe (from OUTER_SET skip = 0 to ACTION_IF skip = 0), the patch itself (t-exe_patch.tpp) and the 2 INCLUDEs that patch animate.2da and anisnd.2da. And you'll have to copy the animations you want. There is an example of this sort of code in the next Aurora's Shoes release, which should be out in the next couple days (just waiting on a French translation).

[Lollorian]

>cartman voice>I WUV YOU GUYS!!!

[jube]

Thanks incredibly !!

Am working on it now, bit embarrassed did not spot it myself

Who do i credit ? Miloch or the IA project in general, it seems the patch is IA but the WeiDU installer is all Miloch, sod it will credit everyone

Once again thanks thanks thanks