10 replies to this topic

[Miloch]

Continued from the WeiDU installer thread...

Miloch, the list looks fine, but remove components like these:

- Darkens the tanar'ri (balor) animation of nabassu as per PnP
- Assigns yochlols a darkened otyugh animation (except those in drow form)
- Makes the chromatic demon somewhat chromatic
- Fade-demon (if present) gets a greyish marilith animation
Distinctive Genies (recolours efreet and dao... you're welcome, Arkenor )
Correctly Coloured Abishai (recoloured white abishai currently - will be updated with red/green abishai when available)

Effect/item recolours aren't really part of this mod.

-edit: Just thinking about it; you could move those to a separate installer maybe?

Ok... well I've reversed this stuff, or will be recoding it to use actual slotted animations at any rate (see those here). Those effect opcodes (whether on worn items or CREs) are rubbishy for several reasons.

1) They make the CREs almost entirely monochromatic (e.g. all red, no orange or yellow).
2) The "very bright" opcode (#52) makes creatures "glow in the dark" (as aVENGER mentioned here).
3) The "strong/dark" opcode (#51) has the opposite effect - if a creature steps into even soft shadows, it goes almost entirely black.

So I think we really do put recolours like these in their own slots. For the nabassu, I was going for something like this. I didn't want to make it too dark, as it's quite dark already (and will be more so unless you run into it in broad daylight). For the yochlol I went for something like this, only more violet- than red-tinged, as it's connected with drow (and can shapeshift into one). I just winged it for the genies, since there's no consistent images or descriptions of them (other than their connection to each element). There should be some physical variation (efreet are stronger and stockier for example) as well as female genies (maybe something in PS:T close to those, I dunno) but these should suffice for now. And Arkenor, I hope you see this as a modding opportunity rather than an attempt to stomp in on your potential mod . At least now, you don't have to mess with those annoying opcodes which rarely work exactly how you want.

If anyone thinks I got the colours off or anything, I can repalette them fairly easily. I modified BAM Batcher to modify the palettes of large quantities of BAMs from a single bitmap, though that bitmap's palette must be in the same order as the original BAMs. If someone would find this useful, I can update it, otherwise it's not a priority (the code seems to work, but I'd have to update the documentation and other tedious stuff). I hope I got the slots right at any rate, though some were rather odd (BG1 4-part slots for example).

[Chevalier]

Shouldn't a Yochlol be more like a slime? Or maybe a slime with dots (eyes)?


I do really like you work!

[Arkenor]

And Arkenor, I hope you see this as a modding opportunity rather than an attempt to stomp in on your potential mod . At least now, you don't have to mess with those annoying opcodes which rarely work exactly how you want.

Yes, thankyou, I have quite recovered my pride, and those externally recoloured genie do look a lot nicer than recolouring in-game.

[Sam.]

Shouldn't a Yochlol be more like a slime? Or maybe a slime with dots (eyes)?

If I remember right, R. A. Salvatore described them with words like "waxy" and "candlestick", so in my opinion, the picture Miloch linked to is very accurate and to me resembles an Otyugh more than it does a slime.

I do really like you work!

I agree completely, which reminds me, where does your Clerics get their deity colors rank on your insanely massive to-do list?

Edited by Sam., 10 December 2009 - 01:52 PM.

[Erephine]

Ok... well I've reversed this stuff, or will be recoding it to use actual slotted animations at any rate (see those here). Those effect opcodes (whether on worn items or CREs) are rubbishy for several reasons.

1) They make the CREs almost entirely monochromatic (e.g. all red, no orange or yellow).
2) The "very bright" opcode (#52) makes creatures "glow in the dark" (as aVENGER mentioned here).
3) The "strong/dark" opcode (#51) has the opposite effect - if a creature steps into even soft shadows, it goes almost entirely black.

So I think we really do put recolours like these in their own slots. For the nabassu, I was going for something like this. I didn't want to make it too dark, as it's quite dark already (and will be more so unless you run into it in broad daylight). For the yochlol I went for something like this, only more violet- than red-tinged, as it's connected with drow (and can shapeshift into one). I just winged it for the genies, since there's no consistent images or descriptions of them (other than their connection to each element). There should be some physical variation (efreet are stronger and stockier for example) as well as female genies (maybe something in PS:T close to those, I dunno) but these should suffice for now. And Arkenor, I hope you see this as a modding opportunity rather than an attempt to stomp in on your potential mod . At least now, you don't have to mess with those annoying opcodes which rarely work exactly how you want.

I hope I got the slots right at any rate, though some were rather odd (BG1 4-part slots for example).

Thanks.

Yeah, those were pretty much exactly the issues I had with it. Proper recolours are definitely fine to add. I haven't looked at the new slot information in depth but from what I could see it seemed correct. Have you tested them?


As for my own progress, the Abishai are pretty much done (Green, Red, Blue, Black, and they look pretty neat!) but I'm doing something a little special for the Lady, so I don't know if I'm going to upload them right away or wait until that's finished as well.

-edit: And I did.

Edited by Erephine, 10 December 2009 - 08:00 PM.

[Miloch]

Shouldn't a Yochlol be more like a slime? Or maybe a slime with dots (eyes)?

If I remember right, R. A. Salvatore described them with words like "waxy" and "candlestick", so in my opinion, the picture Miloch linked to is very accurate and to me resembles an Otyugh more than it does a slime.

The supplements describe it as something like a roper in its native form, but since we don't have a roper animation that I know of, the otyugh is probably the next best thing. It is an amorphous one-eyed thing with pseudopods anyway .

I do really like you work!

I agree completely, which reminds me, where does your Clerics get their deity colors rank on your insanely massive to-do list?

Kind of off topic, but I last I remember, I was kind of hung up on doing some armour for Jaheira that looked like interlocking oak leaves or something . I'm not much of an artist, so I should probably just scrap that and package what I finished.

Have you tested them?

Test? That's crazy talk . Ok, well I have now. They look fine to me, even the foot circles.

(It is raining here, so some are kind of dark.)

As for my own progress, the Abishai are pretty much done (Green, Red, Blue, Black, and they look pretty neat!) but I'm doing something a little special for the Lady, so I don't know if I'm going to upload them right away or wait until that's finished as well.

Nice work on those. But the PS:T black abishai looks like a pale version of the blue abishai now. I tried darkening and desaturating the palette a bit (before and after):


If folks think it's an improvement, maybe we can just replace the existing one?

I'm considering maybe one or two more recolours for existing/in progress components. I really don't like how succubi get the sirine animation. Where's the wings? So I'm looking at maybe the Madae or one of the half-dragon/harpy avatars, but none are that great. There's Shenrical too, which doesn't seem to be used elsewhere (outside of IWDs) but she's a bit too unique, maybe too large too. Unless there's a 1PP component that shows wings on avatars? I forget (and am not sure whether it would work on non-standard avatars anyway).

Attached Files

•  blackab.rar   7.6MB   373 downloads

[Erephine]

The Marilith looks messed up in that screenshot. Looks like there's some colour banding going on there.

Shenrical is a half-dragon (see half-dragon black, red), definitely not a succubus. If you wait with the succubi for a bit, that's one of the NWN animations I've mostly ported.

Nice work on those. But the PS:T black abishai looks like a pale version of the blue abishai now. I tried darkening and desaturating the palette a bit (before and after):

If folks think it's an improvement, maybe we can just replace the existing one?

I don't think it does. I'd rather keep close to the PS:T original where possible, so if you really feel like you need it you're welcome to add it as an alternate.

[Miloch]

The Marilith looks messed up in that screenshot. Looks like there's some colour banding going on there.

Bah. I don't know what the problem is with that animation. I tried about 6 or 7 different repalettes, both with the BG2 and IWD versions, and they all had that sort of thing on closer inspection. Also, it looks totally different than the frame I sampled from the BAM, regardless of which palette I used. Whereas the others look pretty similar to the BAM frames (or if anything, somewhat better in-game).

There is another issue with the IWD Marilith too. It freezes in about mid cycle. When it rotates from right to left and back to center, it'll pause there for about 3 seconds. Very noticeable and unnatural-looking, and the BG2 animation doesn't do it. Maybe a missing frame or sequence or something? I've noticed the same sort of thing with other IWD animations (like the svirfneblin) though for smaller ones it's not nearly as noticeable.

I think I'll just scrap that one. I don't really need a recoloured marilith after all (though a succubus or alu-fiend would definitely be nice). I suppose I could just edit the archive and last post to remove it, or maybe port something else to the same slot, though I don't know what IWD large circle animation could use it. Perhaps a recoloured iron golem, since there are several different golem types not accounted for otherwise.

If you wait with the succubi for a bit, that's one of the NWN animations I've mostly ported.

Is it sized somewhat close to the sirine/female elf? One problem with the other animations I looked at is that they're larger. Though I have not looked at it, possibly an elf with your "wings" might work, though they should really be bat/demon rather than bird/avariel wings. But if they were dark enough, perhaps it would suffice... Still, I suppose a proper unique animation would be better.

But the PS:T black abishai looks like a pale version of the blue abishai now.

I don't think it does. I'd rather keep close to the PS:T original where possible, so if you really feel like you need it you're welcome to add it as an alternate.

Now I think *you* must be blind .

The one on the right is definitely blue, but... how is the one on the left black? Let's be serious. I am not even sure we can comfortably call it grey... perhaps a sort of blue-grey.

And, well, we threw any hopes of "PS:T animation purity" out the door when we resized them and ported them to a format the other IE games can recognise. I think they should look something like what we're calling them at least.

[Erephine]

Bah. I don't know what the problem is with that animation. I tried about 6 or 7 different repalettes, both with the BG2 and IWD versions, and they all had that sort of thing on closer inspection. Also, it looks totally different than the frame I sampled from the BAM, regardless of which palette I used. Whereas the others look pretty similar to the BAM frames (or if anything, somewhat better in-game).

There is another issue with the IWD Marilith too. It freezes in about mid cycle. When it rotates from right to left and back to center, it'll pause there for about 3 seconds. Very noticeable and unnatural-looking, and the BG2 animation doesn't do it. Maybe a missing frame or sequence or something? I've noticed the same sort of thing with other IWD animations (like the svirfneblin) though for smaller ones it's not nearly as noticeable.

I think I'll just scrap that one. I don't really need a recoloured marilith after all (though a succubus or alu-fiend would definitely be nice). I suppose I could just edit the archive and last post to remove it, or maybe port something else to the same slot, though I don't know what IWD large circle animation could use it. Perhaps a recoloured iron golem, since there are several different golem types not accounted for otherwise.

Too late for that.

I'll see if I can get a recolour of the Marilith like you intended (this is why you should make sure things are fine - and needed - before adding).

I haven't noticed the freezing thing, will test later.

Is it sized somewhat close to the sirine/female elf? One problem with the other animations I looked at is that they're larger. Though I have not looked at it, possibly an elf with your "wings" might work, though they should really be bat/demon rather than bird/avariel wings. But if they were dark enough, perhaps it would suffice... Still, I suppose a proper unique animation would be better.

I did render them humanoid in size (naturally), but I'm not sure if it's closer to elven or human size.

Now I think *you* must be blind .
The one on the right is definitely blue, but... how is the one on the left black? Let's be serious. I am not even sure we can comfortably call it grey... perhaps a sort of blue-grey.

And, well, we threw any hopes of "PS:T animation purity" out the door when we resized them and ported them to a format the other IE games can recognise. I think they should look something like what we're calling them at least.

It never claimed to be "pitch black abishai".

But a) descriptions like skin colour rarely match the precisely accurate colour and b) we know that is the way it's intended to look (in PST at least, though I've seen similar in other resources). Like red onions aren't really red usually.

Edited by Erephine, 12 December 2009 - 03:45 AM.

[Erephine]

Here is a fixed Marilith (feel free to update your archive).

Sorry if my earlier comment sounded snippy, but you could've at least looked at the .BAMs in BAMWorkshop or NI before uploading them

Your mistake was assuming all .BAMs for the animation have the same palette, which isn't true for IWD animations. You pasted the same palette you made for the A1 animation on all of them, which means they were all completely messed up (except A1, that is).

Attached Files

•  marilith_dark_fixed.rar   4.94MB   348 downloads

[Miloch]

you could've at least looked at the .BAMs in BAMWorkshop or NI before uploading them

Your mistake was assuming all .BAMs for the animation have the same palette, which isn't true for IWD animations. You pasted the same palette you made for the A1 animation on all of them, which means they were all completely messed up (except A1, that is).

I did look at them of course, just not all of them, obviously. If you already knew about the different palettes in IWD (which seems to be your implication) it could've saved me a lot of time and frustration. I don't claim to know everything about every sort of animation type. I don't think that's even feasible, focusing mainly on code as I have been.

The dark mariliths aren't implemented anywhere yet, so what's the big issue? Even if they were, it's not like they'd crash the game. I daresay we'll have to edit some of the other archives as well, and the forum allows that quite easily. Speaking of which, did you get around to editing the duplicate IWD shadows yet? I haven't used those slots yet either - just the default MSH1 and MSH2 ones. I think we could use greyish versions of them though, since the existing ones are black and the IWD Ghost looks like just a white version of MSH1.

this is why you should make sure things are fine - and needed - before adding

I didn't say that I couldn't *use* it, but that I don't absolutely need it. And if it's based off the BG2 animation, it's probably a better alternate than the IWD recolour, which I'm not even sure we should use as-is now, if there's that 3-second pause in the cycle.

Strictly speaking, we don't really need black and blue abishai right now either. I'm not even sure we can use them for something right now - Green Abishai seems to be the lowest rank implemented in the current megamodded game (though there are a couple of Silver, I suppose white abishai, of lower level from somewhere, with the wrong animation of orc_melee1). Though it is nice to have them, and I do think that if you're adding most of a known series of similar animations, you may as well add all of them (which is why I did the jann and marids, though we can also use them for existing generic genies).

If I did add a black abishai in a mod though, I would prefer it to be black, or dark grey at the least. I believe they are supposed to be, as shown in official artwork. It's not like "red onions" as they're each supposed to represent a head of Tiamat. They may not be pitch black, but they're not bluish or lighter than the blue abishai. Too confusing.

Just don't ask me why the blue abishai are clearly so much bigger than the others in that picture .