46 replies to this topic

[Thanatos.]

I'd like to say this is a good idea. But then I'd be lying. Baldur's Gate isn't your traditional hack 'n' slash game, it has many components that define it from something in that genre. But, unfortunetly for you, it is full of killing and slaying and ripping stuff open and the such. Why go through all that trouble to get all these cool items if they are just going to collect dust?

And I'd be impressed if you could think up some conceivable way to convince Irenicus to not bind himself to the World Tree and destroy the entire elven race.

[Miloch]

Someone on the Bioware forums a while back did a "no kills" run through BG1. It involved a lot of cheese with Algernon's Cloak, sleep/charm etc., but I think he made it all the way up to the final battle with Sarevok. With a level 1 mage, heh. Not sure if that's possible in BG2, but I suppose a mod could do it with enough dialogue changes etc. I don't think there is such a mod though for SoA. There's stuff like Longer Road and Redemption for ToB.

[Miloch]

I was not aware that Longer Road and Redemption were no-kill scenarios (are they?); I thought they were mods created so that Irenicus could be redeemed

I don't know much about them, but I believe they are the latter, yes. I mentioned them because I think they provide plot alternates along these lines.

There are other components along similar lines - one I can think of offhand is in Rogue Rebalancing where if you get caught stealing, you can attempt to talk your way out of it rather than immediately getting into a fight with the guards. Probably not exactly what you want either, but it's out there.

[Ebon]

This is not a bad idea, and peacekeeping can be conditioned by high ability scores of the mind. It exists in Icewind Dale, and in that game it grants you hefty experience. It can make the warrior ability rolling more challenging, so that having a paladin with 6 intelligence would really mean tripping often.

But it's a mechanic issue for me. I hate that anyone with a normal soul (but aggressive style, such as Marl) when angry at you proceeds to beat you, to the death. If you're evil aligned it's nice to return it back, but I doubt it's good for a LG character if he/she couldn't talk things out (and the thug wasn't a real enemy) and the game-recommended choice is bloodshed.

Edited by Ebon, 06 December 2009 - 09:51 AM.

[Carinna]

This is not a bad idea, and peacekeeping can be conditioned by high ability scores of the mind. It exists in Icewind Dale, and in that game it grants you hefty experience. It can make the warrior ability rolling more challenging, so that having a paladin with 6 intelligence would really mean tripping often.

But it's a mechanic issue for me. I hate that anyone with a normal soul (but aggressive style, such as Marl) when angry at you proceeds to beat you, to the death. If you're evil aligned it's nice to return it back, but I doubt it's good for a LG character if he/she couldn't talk things out (and the thug wasn't a real enemy) and the game-recommended choice is bloodshed.

I don't have Icewind Dale; do you mean that there are extra dialogue choices for PCs with higher intelligence, and those extra choices allow peaceful resolutions? That sounds interesting; however I would think wisdom might get one further in that respect than intelligence (or someone might need a bit of both).

I was trying to permit a game to exist whereby someone could reasonably roleplay a cleric of Lathander, who surely wouldn't be killing anything that looked at him/her wrong (and in fact, should be trying NOT to do so). Or, to attempt to play the game without killing, purely for a tactical challenge (because completely different tactics apply, and not the ones usually used by people who are really good at tactical killing). When the game requires a kill in order to progress, and that kill is not directly related to the game plot, there should be something in place to make it unnecessary if the player does not want to kill, for whatever reason.

Even though I'm supposed to be writing my thesis, I've started writing alternate dialogue choices for SoA: The first "required" kills are Jaylos, Caehan, and Gracen in the Five Flagons Inn in Chapter 3. I've almost gotten the new dialogue choices finished for them; but most of what needs to be altered is in the scripts, and I definitely don't have time to learn to program. Besides this interaction, the scenes during the judgment section of Spellhold need to be altered so that the party can progress through them without wiping the map clean of life first. None of this requires dialogue; it's just a script that is currently set to: "Is everything dead? If yes then continue." The simplest remedy would be to permit a physical exit (as opposed to a teleport) from these little pocket planes. Other solutions could be to permit progress if everything was incapacitated. Unfortunately, there is probably not one command to cover all types of incapacitation (however, I wonder if one could be written?).

I'm envisioning writing up a mini mod to cover just the required instances first (the places where the game will stall if you don't kill something), not including undead (who are already dead), or golems (who are not alive) -- except for Irenicus, of course. Then, if time permits, similar modifications could be made to the side quests, where it made sense. Obviously, Korgan is not going to talk things out with Shagbag. But you may be able to bribe Tor'gal, for instance, or win the druid challenge by rendering your opponent unconscious (as opposed to dead). Personally I really disliked having to kill the guy who was only standing in as challenge master, just so I could make Great Druid. There should also be a choice for Lawful Good characters to report Neb to the authorities instead of turning vigilante.

If anyone is interested in doing the coding for this project (again, just the required quests to start with), please let me know. The dialogue is nearly complete.

[Arkenor]

There should also be a choice for Lawful Good characters to report Neb to the authorities instead of turning vigilante.

I suspect that even a cleric of Lathander would consider Neb to have it coming. He's already escaped from prison once, from when you first met him in BG1, allowing him to continue his infanticide spree. He is not even slightly redeemable, and needs stopping permanently. And he does kind of shout "*Cackle* *Cackle* I am an evil child murderer", try to stab you to death, and set the child spirits he's somehow bound to himself on you. It's not like you started it. There's no doubt as to his guilt, he's stabbing you, and those spirits need to be freed.

That might not be a comfortable situation for a pacifist, but sometimes violence really is the answer. If you could hand him over to the authorities he'd only either escape again and carry on killing, or be thoroughly executed. Either way, there's going to be some dying, and better it be him than another innocent.

Even if CHARNAME could restrain himself, there'd be no stopping Jaheira, Minsc, Jan (He may be neutral, but he has a big thing about family. I think he'd be filled with cold fury.) , or several other companions. Heck, I think half the evil characters would want to split his skull.

Edited by Arkenor, 06 December 2009 - 12:32 PM.

[Carinna]

There should also be a choice for Lawful Good characters to report Neb to the authorities instead of turning vigilante.

I suspect that even a cleric of Lathander would consider Neb to have it coming. He's already escaped from prison once, from when you first met him in BG1, allowing him to continue his infanticide spree. He is not even slightly redeemable, and needs stopping permanently. And he does kind of shout "*Cackle* *Cackle* I am an evil child murderer", try to stab you to death, and set the child spirits he's somehow bound to himself on you. It's not like you started it. There's no doubt as to his guilt, he's stabbing you, and those spirits need to be freed.

That might not be a comfortable situation for a pacifist, but sometimes violence really is the answer. If you could hand him over to the authorities he'd only either escape again and carry on killing, or be thoroughly executed. Either way, there's going to be some dying, and better it be him than another innocent.

Even if CHARNAME could restrain himself, there'd be no stopping Jaheira, Minsc, Jan (He may be neutral, but he has a big thing about family. I think he'd be filled with cold fury.) , or several other companions. Heck, I think half the evil characters would want to split his skull.

Well, I wasn't suggesting altering the game so that everyone was forced to come to a peaceful solution for everything. All I'm suggesting is altering the game so that everyone is not forced to come to a violent solution to everything.

[berelinde]

Quest pack lets you talk your way through the ToB encounter at the Oasis.

I've got a mod in the works that lets you gives you a more lawful good alternative way to get to Spellhold, but you still have to kill thieves aplenty, so that probably won't be for you, either.

One of the many problems with any kind of pacifist mod is that many of the game events are connected. When I was doing research for Alternatives, I had to find all the variables related to working for either the Shadow Thieves or Bodhi and figure out ways that everything would still work. Plus, your PC would be going up against Irenicus still at level 7, since most of the game experience comes from combat. Ah, you say, why not add xp bonuses for those peaceful solutions? You'd better be very good at coming up with alternatives challenging enough to merit all the xp that's being dished out.

[Miloch]

Plus, your PC would be going up against Irenicus still at level 7, since most of the game experience comes from combat. Ah, you say, why not add xp bonuses for those peaceful solutions? You'd better be very good at coming up with alternatives challenging enough to merit all the xp that's being dished out.

You could use such a mod with a reversed Ding0's XP Mod (DEF JAM) component. Currently, I think it only allows you to reduce quest XP, but it would be quite easy to allow it to increase quest XP too.

For that matter, you could use it with a reversed Quest Gold component from Aurora's Shoes too, since most of the loot in the game otherwise comes from killing things. Though you can get some ridiculous gold from non-violent quests, and it might even be enough to sustain you if you don't need to buy all the fancy armaments you would to kill things.

As for scripts, it is easy enough to mod those (easier than adding dialogue) especially if you're removing things. Though you do need to keep careful track of variables, as berelinde says.

[Azkyroth]

One suggestion for this: you might add chemical or magical items that allow you to render an enemy unconscious long-term and change their status to "neutral" rather than "enemy" or something to that effect. This would allow you to defeat enemies without having to kill them, and it's plausible that you'd get some "experience" in the process. They'd probably have to be used like weapons, though, for balancing purposes; a de facto wand of sleep with no save could become overpowered.

[Carinna]

Quest pack lets you talk your way through the ToB encounter at the Oasis.

I've got a mod in the works that lets you gives you a more lawful good alternative way to get to Spellhold, but you still have to kill thieves aplenty, so that probably won't be for you, either.

One of the many problems with any kind of pacifist mod is that many of the game events are connected. When I was doing research for Alternatives, I had to find all the variables related to working for either the Shadow Thieves or Bodhi and figure out ways that everything would still work. Plus, your PC would be going up against Irenicus still at level 7, since most of the game experience comes from combat. Ah, you say, why not add xp bonuses for those peaceful solutions? You'd better be very good at coming up with alternatives challenging enough to merit all the xp that's being dished out.

I know about the Quest Pack alteration for the Oasis, and in fact have it installed. I'll be looking for your mod when it comes out, as well. Right now I'm not so concerned about the assassins Irenicus lets loose on the PC unless the exit door is locked until they are dead and then magically unlocks itself. What concerns me immediately are the few required quests that don't let you go on (at all, period) until you kill all the (fill in the blank). I understand about everything being connected with variables, which is why I asked if someone was interested enough to help with the coding. If no one is interested in helping, then that's fine, I'll just have to wait until my thesis is finished to teach myself how to do it. And I've said a couple of times now that I know the PC will still have to fight Irenicus; I am not trying to alter that part of the game. And what I have suggested changing immediately (the required quests that require killing) do not need any alteration in XP. Linvail's quest is complete when you report back to him with the information. You won't get the XP for the kill, okay. But you still get the XP for completing his quest. The Spellhold changes simply let you get from one section to the next; it isn't a quest, per se, just an impediment. You won't earn XP for the kills, but in the long run, they are negligible. The part I mentioned about modding the side quests down the line is just that: Down the line. Maybe. Some day.

One suggestion for this: you might add chemical or magical items that allow you to render an enemy unconscious long-term and change their status to "neutral" rather than "enemy" or something to that effect. This would allow you to defeat enemies without having to kill them, and it's plausible that you'd get some "experience" in the process. They'd probably have to be used like weapons, though, for balancing purposes; a de facto wand of sleep with no save could become overpowered.

I would love to have something that would do this so that I could acquire quest items without having to play someone with a pickpocket skill if I don't want to kill someone. And I understand that you must get many people who come in here and want to build the ultimate game-unbalancing weapon, but I'm not one of them.

Edited by Carinna, 07 December 2009 - 03:10 PM.

[Carinna]

Though you can get some ridiculous gold from non-violent quests, and it might even be enough to sustain you if you don't need to buy all the fancy armaments you would to kill things.

I always end up with way more gold than I need in this game; to me, at least, it's pretty overpowered with money. I think there will be plenty.

[Miloch]

I understand about everything being connected with variables, which is why I asked if someone was interested enough to help with the coding. If no one is interested in helping, then that's fine, I'll just have to wait until my thesis is finished to teach myself how to do it.

If you have dialogue written, I'm sure someone here can help you code it. But if you don't or don't plan on finishing it anytime soon, well, don't expect coders to come crawling out of the woodwork, because dead unfinished mods are a shilling a dozen around these forums. Your thesis is much more important, though maybe not as fun .

I would love to have something that would do this so that I could acquire quest items without having to play someone with a pickpocket skill if I don't want to kill someone.

There is a blackjack in Aurora's Shoes that can knock someone out instead of killing them. Though I think it has a potential for inflicting damage, just as a real blackjack. I think there's a similar item (sap) in Rogue Rebalancing.

Edit: note that in the unmodded game you can bludgeon someone into unconsciousness with your bare hands without killing them .

Edited by Miloch, 07 December 2009 - 05:17 PM.

[Carinna]

If you have dialogue written, I'm sure someone here can help you code it. But if you don't or don't plan on finishing it anytime soon, well, don't expect coders to come crawling out of the woodwork, because dead unfinished mods are a shilling a dozen around these forums. Your thesis is much more important, though maybe not as fun .

I've got the dialogue finished. It's sort of written in .d ("sort of" because I've never done it before, and I know there are probably a lot of errors). It did not amount to much, really, since the only dialogue changes are for the Jaylos/Caehan/Gracen scene in the Five Flagons Inn. All the rest requires only scripting/coding changes (no dialogue). Keep in mind this is just to alter the game so the PC is not forced to kill, meaning only the main-line quests are affected. Most of the response choices are copied from the original and a couple of them point back to there as well. I've called the new dialogue nkJaylos.dlg to differentiate it from the original Jaylos.dlg (nk for no kill). I'll copy what I have here (sorry, it's covered with notations):

! Altered dialogue for Jaylos/Caehan/Gracen scene in Five Flagons Inn Chapter 3
! Scene progresses as in vanilla game until the conversation progresses to the following point:

(diverted from Caehan.dlg state 7)

IF ~~ nkJaylos.dlg
(Jaylos) SAY ~All right, everyone, just calm down.~
++ ~You don't know the naa-aame, you don't know the naa-aame.~ + Jaylos.dlg state 13
++ ~Maybe I know the name very, very well! Maybe it's MY name! Maybe I'm the contact!~ + Jaylos.dlg state 15 (if CHARNAME gender=Female)
++ ~Maybe I know the name very, very well! Maybe it's MY name! Maybe I'm the contact!~ + Caehan.dlg state 7 (if CHARNAME gender=male)
++ ~Listen to your pal, friend. You are in big trouble.~ + Jaylos.dlg state 2
++ ~How do I know YOU really know the name? You could just be trying to pry it out of me!~ + nkJaylos.dlg state 1
END

IF ~~ nkJaylos.dlg state 1
(Jaylos) SAY ~I guess we'll find out soon enough.~ (SPAWN Gracen)
IF ~~ + nkJaylos.dlg state 2
END

IF ~~ nkJaylos.dlg state 2
(Gracen) SAY ~What's going on here? I'm Gracen. Were all of you to meet me here?~
++ ~WE were. I don't know what these two are doing.~ + nkJaylos.dlg state 3
++ ~Actually, we're here to teach you a lesson for crossing the Shadow Thieves.~ + Bodfgt03.dlg state 2
++ ~What happened to using your name for the password?~ + nkJaylos.dlg state 4
END

IF ~~ nkJaylos.dlg state 3
(Jaylos) SAY ~Now wait just a minute! WE were here first!~
(Gracen) = ~Keep your voices down! We should not wait here long. Your new berth is beneath the graveyard district, behind the blue stone doors.~
++ ~That's all we needed to know. Now you shall feel the wrath of the Shadow Thieves.~ + Bodfgt03.dlg state 7
++ ~Might I ask what our reward was to be again? I would like it clarified.~ + Bodfgt03.dlg state 8
++ ~Well, we shall be on our way, then.~
IF ~~ EXIT
END

IF ~~ nkJaylos.dlg state 4
(Jaylos) SAY ~I knew you didn't know the name, SPY!~
++ ~No, you are the spies! Let's get them, Gracen!~ + Bodfgt03.dlg state 2
END

(END OF DIALOGUE)

If someone would like to code this, the other things that need doing are:

1. Unlock the door in Irenicus' dungeon that currently remains locked until all the Mephit Portals are defeated.
2. In the Spellhold maze, the last section (after the party puts the horns on the statue) involves progressing via teleport after the party has killed everything in the pocket plane. Add a physical exit for the scene with the kobold platforms and the myconids. If this is impossible due to game engine limitations, then allow the party to progress if everything is simply rendered unconscious (although I have no idea how to render a myconid unconscious; can you?).
3. The third pocket plane in this area has a physical exit. Allow the party to exit that way even if the troll has not been killed.

I don't think kills are required for anything else, although I will have to play through Suldanessellar again to be sure. Again, I do NOT count killing Irenicus.

There is a blackjack in Aurora's Shoes that can knock someone out instead of killing them. Though I think it has a potential for inflicting damage, just as a real blackjack. I think there's a similar item (sap) in Rogue Rebalancing.

Edit: note that in the unmodded game you can bludgeon someone into unconsciousness with your bare hands without killing them .

That's nice to know (about the blackjack). And actually, I know about bludgeoning with the bare hands, but I usually don't play a character with an intelligence of 3. Bare hands against swords don't make for a very long life, unless you are a monk, and then your hands become deadly weapons.

THANK YOU!

Oops - forgot the new Journal Entry:

(On EXIT) Journal entry: Aran?s tasks to receive the Shadow Thieves? aid: I have successfully posed as a defector from the Shadow Thieves and met the contact, although I have learned little beyond the fact that the rival guild is based in the Graveyard District. Hopefully this is all the information that Aran Linvail requires.

Edited by Carinna, 12 December 2009 - 07:19 PM.

[cmorgan]

OK, this is dangerous stuff, because you are expecting that no one else has already messed with all this. And in a modern Mega install, that is getting to be like skating across Lake Champlain in January - used to be a safe bet it was ok to drive your truck across, but nowadays you will be lucky to make it in a snowmobile. But to give you a leg up on the basics, here is a first rough pass -

someone else recheck the usage of EXTERN in state "nkjaylos". Plus, a recheck that you can actually break in at Caehan state 7 - it might be a game breaker unless the entire state is falsed out and replaced. ALTER_TRANS is supposed to be able to do this without falsing, but it would need some testing...

file pacifist.d

/*  Altered dialogue for Jaylos/Caehan/Gracen scene in Five Flagons Inn Chapter 3 */
	/*  Scene progresses as in vanilla game until the conversation progresses to the following point: */
	
	/* diverted from Caehan.dlg state 7, so the transition goes directly there. If you want to leave people the option to keep the old behavior too, then you need to add a reply instead. */
	
	ALTER_TRANS CAEHAN // file name
	BEGIN 7 END // state number (can be more than one)
	BEGIN 1 END // transition number (can be more than one)
	BEGIN // list of changes, see below for flags
	  "EPILOGUE" ~EXTERN JAYLOS nkJalos~
	END
	
 APPEND ~JAYLOS~
 
	IF ~~ nkJaylos
	  SAY ~[JAYLOS] All right, everyone, just calm down.~
	  ++ ~[PC] You don't know the naa-aame, you don't know the naa-aame.~ + 13 
	  + ~Gender(Player1,FEMALE)~ + ~[PC] Maybe I know the name very, very well! Maybe it's MY name! Maybe I'm the contact!~ + 15
	  + ~Gender(Player1,MALE)~ + ~[PC] Maybe I know the name very, very well! Maybe it's MY name! Maybe I'm the contact!~ EXTERN ~CAEHAN~ 7
	  ++ ~[PC] Listen to your pal, friend. You are in big trouble.~ EXTERN ~JAYLOS~ 2
	  ++ ~[PC] How do I know YOU really know the name? You could just be trying to pry it out of me!~ + nkJaylos1 
	END
	
	IF ~~ nkJaylos1
	   SAY ~[PC] I guess we'll find out soon enough.~ 
	   IF ~~ THEN DO ~SetGlobal("JaylosSpawn","AR0511",2) CreateCreature("BODFGT03",[652.814],10)~ EXTERN ~Bodfgt03~  nkJaylos2
	END
   
	IF ~~ nkJaylos4
	  SAY ~[JAYLOS] I knew you didn't know the name, SPY!~
	  ++ ~[PC] No, you are the spies! Let's get them, Gracen!~ EXTERN ~Bodfgt03~  2
	END
	
	END // of APPEND to JAYLOS.DLG
	
   
   APPEND ~Bodfgt03~
   
   IF ~~ nkgracen1
	  SAY ~What is the meaning of this? I could hear this fight from the street outside! What is going on here?~ /* #35043 */
	  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Nothing, Gratin, just... ah... some spies that had to be dealt with.~ /* #35044 */ GOTO nkgracen3
	  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Nothing, Gravis, just some nasty spies that had to be dealt with.~ /* #35045 */ GOTO nkgracen3
	  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Nothing, Gralen, just a little trouble with some spies before we could meet.~ /* #35046 */ GOTO nkgracen3
	  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Nothing, Gravy, just some spies that had to be dealt with before we could meet.~ /* #35049 */ GOTO nkgracen3
	  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Nothing, Gracele, just some spies that had to be dealt with before we could meet.~ /* #35050 */ GOTO nkgracen3
	  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Oh, to the hells with it! I know you were meeting traitors here! Where are your masters!?~ /* #35051 */ GOTO nkgracen3
	END
   
  IF ~~ nkJaylos2
	   SAY ~[GRACEN] What's going on here? I'm Gracen. Were all of you to meet me here?~
	   ++ ~[PC] WE were. I don't know what these two are doing.~ EXTERN ~JAYLOS~ nkJaylos3
	   ++ ~[PC] Actually, we're here to teach you a lesson for crossing the Shadow Thieves.~ + nkgracen3
	   ++ ~[PC] What happened to using your name for the password?~ EXTERN ~JAYLOS~  nkJaylos4
	 END
	
   IF ~~ nkgracen3
	 SAY ~[GRACEN] <<whatever you need to have him say to believe that everything is resolved peaceably.... goes here>>~
	 IF ~~ THEN UNSOLVED_JOURNAL ~Aran's tasks to receive the Shadow Thieves' aid
   
   I have successfully posed as a defector from the Shadow Thieves and met the contact, although I have learned little beyond the fact that the rival guild is based in the Graveyard District. Hopefully this is all the information that Aran Linvail requires.~ EXIT
   END
   
   END // of append
   
	CHAIN ~JAYLOS~ nkJaylos3
	~[JAYLOS] Now wait just a minute! WE were here first!~
	== ~Bodfgt03~ ~[GRACEN] Keep your voices down! We should not wait here long. Your new berth is beneath the graveyard district, behind the blue stone doors.~
	END
	++ ~[PC] That's all we needed to know. Now you shall feel the wrath of the Shadow Thieves.~ EXTERN ~Bodfgt03~ 7
	++ ~[PC] Might I ask what our reward was to be again? I would like it clarified.~ EXTERN ~Bodfgt03~ 8
	++ ~[PC] Well, we shall be on our way, then.~ EXIT

Edited by cmorgan, 12 December 2009 - 08:09 PM.

[cmorgan]

Well, yup on the ok-ness of Caehan 7 :

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 7 // from:
   SAY ~Aw geeze, Jaylos, what if he is the contact? We are so dead.~ /* #35014 */
   IF ~~ THEN EXTERN ~JAYLOS~ 16
 END

but I can't remember if that IF ~~ THEN EXTERN is reply 0, or 1. So the ALTER_TRANS would need to be checked for which to use.

And the skipping around for spawning is not as hard as I thought - just use Jaylos.dlg

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 21 // from: 20.0
SAY ~The name is Gracen, and we want to join with the new guild. The offer is just too good.~ /* #35028 */
IF ~~ THEN DO ~SetGlobal("JaylosSpawn","AR0511",2)
CreateCreature("BODFGT03",[652.814],10)
~ EXIT



Doggone, nope again - you can't use this to extern to, because it has conditions that WILL fail here: from Gracen, BODFGT03,

IF ~NumTimesTalkedTo(0)
Dead("Jaylos")
Dead("Caehan")
~ THEN BEGIN 2 // from:
  SAY ~What is the meaning of this? I could hear this fight from the street outside! What is going on here?~ /* #35043 */
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Nothing, Gratin, just... ah... some spies that had to be dealt with.~ /* #35044 */ GOTO 3
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Nothing, Gravis, just some nasty spies that had to be dealt with.~ /* #35045 */ GOTO 3
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Nothing, Gralen, just a little trouble with some spies before we could meet.~ /* #35046 */ GOTO 3
  IF ~ReactionGT(LastTalkedToBy,NEUTRAL_UPPER)
~ THEN REPLY ~Nothing, Gracen, just some spies that had to be dealt with before we could meet.~ /* #35047 */ GOTO 6
  IF ~ReactionLT(LastTalkedToBy,FRIENDLY_LOWER)
~ THEN REPLY ~Nothing, Gracen, just some spies that had to be dealt with before we could meet.~ /* #35048 */ GOTO 4
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Nothing, Gravy, just some spies that had to be dealt with before we could meet.~ /* #35049 */ GOTO 3
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Nothing, Gracele, just some spies that had to be dealt with before we could meet.~ /* #35050 */ GOTO 3
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Oh, to the hells with it! I know you were meeting traitors here! Where are your masters!?~ /* #35051 */ GOTO 5
END

And, the #3 states there also leads to fighting - you would need to adjust those too.
So, adjustments above: hopefully someone else will come along and help you take the next step (and cleaning up the rought draft above).

Edited by cmorgan, 12 December 2009 - 08:06 PM.

[Carinna]

Well, yup on the ok-ness of Caehan 7 :

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 7 // from:
   SAY ~Aw geeze, Jaylos, what if he is the contact? We are so dead.~ /* #35014 */
   IF ~~ THEN EXTERN ~JAYLOS~ 16
 END

but I can't remember if that IF ~~ THEN EXTERN is reply 0, or 1. So the ALTER_TRANS would need to be checked for which to use.

Well, I obviously can't read what is meant in Near Infinity. The line I was looking for as Caehan 7 was:

SAY ~Aw geeze, they think we're spies. We're gonna die!~

which is listed as state 7/9, but text 6 on the "View" page and state 6 on the "Edit" page.
So I will need to check all of the places where I referenced an already existing dialogue. So I should always use the number on the "Edit" page, right?

And the skipping around for spawning is not as hard as I thought - just use Jaylos.dlg

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN 21 // from: 20.0
SAY ~The name is Gracen, and we want to join with the new guild. The offer is just too good.~ /* #35028 */
IF ~~ THEN DO ~SetGlobal("JaylosSpawn","AR0511",2)
CreateCreature("BODFGT03",[652.814],10)
~ EXIT



Doggone, nope again - you can't use this to extern to, because it has conditions that WILL fail here: from Gracen, BODFGT03,

IF ~NumTimesTalkedTo(0)
Dead("Jaylos")
Dead("Caehan")
~ THEN BEGIN 2 // from:
  SAY ~What is the meaning of this? I could hear this fight from the street outside! What is going on here?~ /* #35043 */
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Nothing, Gratin, just... ah... some spies that had to be dealt with.~ /* #35044 */ GOTO 3
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Nothing, Gravis, just some nasty spies that had to be dealt with.~ /* #35045 */ GOTO 3
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Nothing, Gralen, just a little trouble with some spies before we could meet.~ /* #35046 */ GOTO 3
  IF ~ReactionGT(LastTalkedToBy,NEUTRAL_UPPER)
~ THEN REPLY ~Nothing, Gracen, just some spies that had to be dealt with before we could meet.~ /* #35047 */ GOTO 6
  IF ~ReactionLT(LastTalkedToBy,FRIENDLY_LOWER)
~ THEN REPLY ~Nothing, Gracen, just some spies that had to be dealt with before we could meet.~ /* #35048 */ GOTO 4
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Nothing, Gravy, just some spies that had to be dealt with before we could meet.~ /* #35049 */ GOTO 3
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Nothing, Gracele, just some spies that had to be dealt with before we could meet.~ /* #35050 */ GOTO 3
  IF ~~ THEN REPLY ~Oh, to the hells with it! I know you were meeting traitors here! Where are your masters!?~ /* #35051 */ GOTO 5
END

And, the #3 states there also leads to fighting - you would need to adjust those too.
So, adjustments above: hopefully someone else will come along and help you take the next step (and cleaning up the rought draft above).

I don't understand why the list of misunderstanding Gracen's name is appearing at all here. Is this something else to do with the misnumbering?

THANK YOU!!! (Hope I haven't alienated you & everyone else completely by my cluelessness)

Edited by Carinna, 12 December 2009 - 09:32 PM.