493 replies to this topic

[Quester]

Okay, thanks Miloch. I would still appreciate an official word on this from the BWP creators though.

Meanwhile, here's another question: In the BWP pdf, under Refinements (first component, Revised High Level Abilities) it says:

"If you install this component, you may not assign multi-class abilities to any character with the Level 1 NPCs mod."

What abilities can't be assigned, more specifically? Can I not assign multi-classes at all, or not the weapon proficiencies for a multi-class character, or what? And is there any fix for this (as I'd like to both use the Revised High Level Abilities and be able to choose how characters are set up with Level1NPCs)?

[Leomar]

@ Lollorian

So, yeah, Quester helped find a TYPO The numbers after %L% should've been interchanged
(I looked at its .tp2 and it doesn't seem to have any language other than english!!! How did the 0 and 1 come by?? BWP Textpack??)

Yes, the BW Textpack installs the traified version with the German translation of MTS. And yes, exactly in these lines are the wrong language numbers. All the other lines of MTS are correct. Thanks, we'll correct it.



@ Quester

I have a question about MTS Crappack as installed by BWP. From the pdf, the components 6, 8 and 9 should be installed. However, in the install.bat, it looks like they're set to only install for an Expert german game?

Yes, we moved them into the Expert-version, because of overwriting files like Miloch mentioned. We forgot to update the guide about this and we'll correct it. Additional:
Component 6 is in our eyes outdated, because Konalan's Tweaks and aTweaks have newer Paladin improvements. If you don't want the newer ones, then you can install the MTS one.
Component 8 uses the Level-40 ruleset and the BWP the Level-50 ruleset. If you don't install the Level-50 ruleset with the BWP, you can install this MTS component, but why should you do that.

Meanwhile, here's another question: In the BWP pdf, under Refinements (first component, Revised High Level Abilities) it says:
"If you install this component, you may not assign multi-class abilities to any character with the Level 1 NPCs mod."
What abilities can't be assigned, more specifically?

Level-1 NPCs is a complicated mod for the BWP. Not in its function, as for complete compatibility. Normally it should be compatible in all its ways, but we can't test all the combinations which the mod offers. Therefore we concentrated us on the main components for the BWP, but all NSC changing components are untested. So the informations about different situations with other mods, are reported issues in the mod-forum or given informations from the users. So is it with this statements. If you want to use multi-class with Refinements, so you must test it for your own in terms of what you can choose and what not. We can't help you here (we have not the time for that) and you're on your own, but if you want to try it, feedback about it is very welcome, so we can include further informations on it in the guide.

Greetings Leomar

[Quester]

Thank you for clarifying!

Yes, we moved them into the Expert-version, because of overwriting files like Miloch mentioned. We forgot to update the guide about this and we'll correct it. Additional:
Component 6 is in our eyes outdated, because Konalan's Tweaks and aTweaks have newer Paladin improvements. If you don't want the newer ones, then you can install the MTS one.

Well, it seems to me that these all have different effects on paladins.

MTS

1) Added: Immune to Effect: Panic
2) Added: Immune to Effect: Morale Break

"In addition, a Paladin is always supposed to be protected from Evil,
So the spell expiring after ONE TURN is just absurd: but since it can be cast on anyone, this had to be changed around a bit."

Konalan

Disease Immunity: All paladins are now immune to disease.
Cure Disease: All paladins may cast Remove Disease once per day. They gain an additional casting every three levels (3, 6, 9, etc.)
Smite Evil: The paladin's signature ability. All paladins may now use smite evil once per day. This deals 1d6 damage per level up to a maximum of 10d6. This only works on evil creatures.

aTweaks

Restore innate disease immunity to Paladins
This component makes all Paladins inherently immune to disease, as per PnP rules. It also adds an innate Cure Disease ability, usable once per day, to the True Paladin and Cavalier kits.

I would like a combination of the effects of all three. Or, at the very least, the MTS component and the aTweaks one. I take it those two are not compatible because MTS overwrites stuff? But what if you install aTweaks after MTS?

Level-1 NPCs is a complicated mod for the BWP. Not in its function, as for complete compatibility. Normally it should be compatible in all its ways, but we can't test all the combinations which the mod offers. Therefore we concentrated us on the main components for the BWP, but all NSC changing components are untested. So the informations about different situations with other mods, are reported issues in the mod-forum or given informations from the users. So is it with this statements. If you want to use multi-class with Refinements, so you must test it for your own in terms of what you can choose and what not. We can't help you here (we have not the time for that) and you're on your own, but if you want to try it, feedback about it is very welcome, so we can include further informations on it in the guide.

Greetings Leomar

Alright, fair enough. I suppose it's not going to break my game anyway. I will try it and report any findings.

Thank you for the info!

[Quester]

And another question while I'm at it: Wouldn't it be a good idea to put the XP mods (Ding0â??s Experience Fixer and BP-Balancer) as the very last mods to be installed in the BWP? That would allow easy reconfiguring of settings if you find after half the game that the settings don't seem quite right (you gain XP too fast or too slow). You could then just change the settings of these mods without having to mess anything else up.

Edited by Quester, 17 December 2009 - 08:50 AM.

[Lollorian]

Well, these XP/item tweaker mods modify a large number of files together (ALL .cre's/.itm's)

As you know, the BWP depends on generalized biffing at the end to pack the \override folder into neat little packages that go in the \data folder (.bif's) Now, if you used the tweaker mods after gen_biff, all the .bif's would be unpacked (figuratively speaking) and the override would get fllled up again

Now, the problem with a 100000+ file override is that the game would then take around 10-15 minutes just to start up

Another problem is that, once you do gen_biff, you can't really unnstall any mods before it

So, in the end, these mods are pretty much at the best place they could be

Cheers,
Lol

[Lollorian]

Try all these in section 4, especially #19

Cheers,
Lol

[Leomar]

Well, it seems to me that these all have different effects on paladins.

That's correct and therefore we don't removed the component. We know that you can install it in the Expert-version without problems, but we don't know, if the behavior of a Paladin character is correct, if you install all three mods together. If you wish, you need only to change in the Install.bat the MTS component from Expert to Standard or Tactic (of whatever BWP-version you want to play) and you could try it. And if you try it, then we are interested in feedback, too.

Greetings Leomar

[Jarno Mikkola]

Well, these XP/item tweaker mods modify a large number of files together (ALL .cre's/.itm's)

As you know, the BWP depends on generalized biffing at the end to pack the \override folder into neat little packages that go in the \data folder (.bif's) Now, if you used the tweaker mods after gen_biff, all the .bif's would be unpacked (figuratively speaking) and the override would get fllled up again

Now, the problem with a 100000+ file override is that the game would then take around 10-15 minutes just to start up

Äääh, it's not the amount of the files, just the space required to read the files that make the game slower to load, and that's why the bigg did the first option for the gen_bif, as the wav's, tis's and bam's take a lot more space than a .itm file.
Besides the mods that alter the game files, do not unpack the .bif's, they just read the info they need from them and put the newly created files to the override folder, generally only if they chance... making you to have multiple references to the same file, which in itself is not bad, but it might take a bit more time to load.

Try all these in section 4, especially #19

Quickly, let's change that number.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 18 December 2009 - 12:37 AM.

[Lollorian]

Äääh, it's not the amount of the files, just the space required to read the files that make the game slower to load, and that's why the bigg did the first option for the gen_bif, as the wav's, tis's and bam's take a lot more space than a .itm file.

And I always thought there were separate options because wav's and tiz's aren't patchable by any mod while the other stuff (being regularly patched) could be left in the override to allow easy patchy-ness Thanks for the info

Besides the mods that alter the game files, do not unpack the .bif's, they just read the info they need from them and put the newly created files to the override folder

I was speaking figuratively but yeah. that's what actually happens

Try all these in section 4, especially #19

Quickly, let's change that number.

The code must not be cracked!!!

Cheers,
Lol

[Quester]

I seem to recall installing the XP mods manually as the very last installed mods on my previous BWP installation back in July, and I didn't encounter any issues then. No slowdowns atleast. So I think I will try that again, because I really like the idea of being able to change those XP settings easily if I need to later in the game.

We know that you can install it in the Expert-version without problems, but we don't know, if the behavior of a Paladin character is correct, if you install all three mods together. If you wish, you need only to change in the Install.bat the MTS component from Expert to Standard or Tactic (of whatever BWP-version you want to play) and you could try it. And if you try it, then we are interested in feedback, too.

I will try installing the MTS Paladin component together with the aTweaks one. I'll report here if I find any problems with having both.


Here are a couple more issues I've found while digging through the BWP pdf and the Install.bat:

1. BWP pdf says alternate portrait for Angelo will be installed, but looking in the install.bat this is not the case. Very minor but something you may want to correct.

2. BG2 Tweaks: component 'Improved Athkatlan City Guard'. Says in pdf it will be skipped, but in the install.bat it looks like it's set to be installed.

3. BG2 Tweaks: component 2050 'Description Updates for Universal Clubs'. Pdf says it will be skipped because Ashes of Embers is installed? No it's not. AoE doesn't install in a regular installation unless you change things yourself, as far as I know. So why not install this BG2 Tweaks component?

4. Rogue Rebalancing: component 'Shadow Thief Improvements': Pdf says "Will be skipped, when Check the Bodies is detected." Doesn't look like the install.bat has any check for CtB for this component?

5. BG2 Tweaks: component number 2200 is listed for two different components in the pdf. The first one for Multi-Class Grand Mastery should probably be 2000. Also, more info on how the clash with Refinements will show itself would be helpful, since I would ideally like both.

That is all for now.

[Leomar]

I will try installing the MTS Paladin component together with the aTweaks one. I'll report here if I find any problems with having both.

Thank you.

1. BWP pdf says alternate portrait for Angelo will be installed, but looking in the install.bat this is not the case. Very minor but something you may want to correct.

The PDF is wrong, because we install none alternate portraits. We'll correct it.

2. BG2 Tweaks: component 'Improved Athkatlan City Guard'. Says in pdf it will be skipped, but in the install.bat it looks like it's set to be installed.

The component skips automatically if it detects the changes.

3. BG2 Tweaks: component 2050 'Description Updates for Universal Clubs'. Pdf says it will be skipped because Ashes of Embers is installed? No it's not. AoE doesn't install in a regular installation unless you change things yourself, as far as I know. So why not install this BG2 Tweaks component?

Thanks, we'll correct it.

4. Rogue Rebalancing: component 'Shadow Thief Improvements': Pdf says "Will be skipped, when Check the Bodies is detected." Doesn't look like the install.bat has any check for CtB for this component?

The component skips automatically if it detects CtB.

5. BG2 Tweaks: component number 2200 is listed for two different components in the pdf. The first one for Multi-Class Grand Mastery should probably be 2000. Also, more info on how the clash with Refinements will show itself would be helpful, since I would ideally like both.

Thanks, we'll correct it.

Greetings Leomar

[Mike1072]

3. BG2 Tweaks: component 2050 'Description Updates for Universal Clubs'. Pdf says it will be skipped because Ashes of Embers is installed? No it's not. AoE doesn't install in a regular installation unless you change things yourself, as far as I know. So why not install this BG2 Tweaks component?

Thanks, we'll correct it.

As of BG2 Tweaks v8, that component is obsolete and will be automatically skipped unless you are installing the mod in Chinese, because descriptions are now patched in the main 'Universal Clubs' component.

[Quester]

Alright, thank you both for the info.

I have a new request for a mod to be included in the BWP: NPC Kitpack from G3.

[Jarno Mikkola]

I have a new request for a mod to be included in the BWP: NPC Kitpack from G3.

It won't be included, cause you can always use the better mod to do exactly what anyone wishes, use the 'Level 1 NPCs mod's NPC components(#1200+) to change whatever one wishes, as that way, you can actually just start the setup-level1npcs.exe and then skip the already installed components and get exactly what one wishes... even after the biffing. The Enchanter Minsc, the Barbarian Aerie and Paladin Anomen...
The same reason is why the Divine Remix'es NPC component are not installed, nor anyother Kit mod...

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 20 December 2009 - 02:14 AM.

[Quester]

No offense Jarno, but clearly you didn't read what the mod is about.

Lvl 1 NPCs can not do what this mod does.

It adds custom, fitting, kits to existing Bioware NPCs.

[Lollorian]

Mod requests go here btw

I've said it before and I say it again, hitting one key and letting NPCKitpacks do the customization is tons better than customizing NPCs through L1NPCs (The casual gamer just wants to see better/different NPCs, not sit through and research all the possibilities of NPC tweaking )

Btw, I'm of the (again ... totally imho ) opinion that NPCs should be as different as possible, that includes dialog, stats, quests, and kits (fightng style), so assigning every NPC a custom kit is just one step closer to uniqueness

And now with A64's ToBEx mod, the BWP should seriously consider including kits (since the infamous 9 kit limit HAS BEEN BROKEN!!! )

Cheers,
Lol

Edited by Lollorian, 20 December 2009 - 02:35 AM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

It adds custom, fitting, kits to existing Bioware NPCs.

Hows the custom kits good for Anomen if he is a paladin? Is it fitting?
And the level 1 NPCs can have Minsc to take Barbarian Kit as a fighter and we get to choose all his profs etc, with the component #1212. Have you actually tried to manually install the components that are not included in BW-P/S/I?

I've said it before and I say it again, hitting one key and letting NPCKitpacks do the customization is tons better than customizing NPCs through L1NPCs (The casual gamer just wants to see better/different NPCs, not sit through and research all the possibilities of NPC tweaking )

Well, you could include it into a special Pre-Assigned kits component, like all the other kit NPC related mods...

And now with A64's ToBEx mod, the BWP should seriously consider including kits (since the infamous 9 kit limit HAS BEEN BROKEN!!! )

Yes, it could be good, but are all the Kits compatible with the 50 level rules... cause it would be good if they were... cause I pity the fool who chooses the ultimate mod kit only to notice that yes, all their gain/level abilities are capped at level 40, not on 50.

[Lollorian]

It adds custom, fitting, kits to existing Bioware NPCs.

Hows the custom kits good for Anomen if he is a paladin? Is it fitting?
And the level 1 NPCs can have Minsc to take Barbarian Kit as a fighter and we get to choose all his profs etc, with the component #1212. Have you actually tried to manually install the components that are not included in BW-P/S/I?

Anomen - EmoKnight of Torm ... now that sounds snazzy

Agreed, L1NPCs allows total control of what to do with your NPCs, but some sort of default template should probably be present, non?? And going by your argument, the BWP shouldn't install the NeJ NPC kits either (Imoen -> Charming Rogue, Jaheira -> Priest of Silvanus, Shar-Teel -> Firewalker) and Xan -> Sorcerer either ... since you could do the same with L1NPCs

The BWP is about choices, so create even more choices for the BWP ...

I've said it before and I say it again, hitting one key and letting NPCKitpacks do the customization is tons better than customizing NPCs through L1NPCs (The casual gamer just wants to see better/different NPCs, not sit through and research all the possibilities of NPC tweaking )

Well, you could include it into a special Pre-Assigned kits component, like all the other kit NPC related mods...

Exactly

And now with A64's ToBEx mod, the BWP should seriously consider including kits (since the infamous 9 kit limit HAS BEEN BROKEN!!! )

Yes, it could be good, but are all the Kits compatible with the 50 level rules... cause it would be good if they were... cause I pity the fool who chooses the ultimate mod kit only to notice that yes, all their gain/level abilities are capped at level 40, not on 50.

And here's trouble But afaict, TDD uses the level 50 ruleset, so its kits should probably be compatible, not sure about the others though (damn )

Cheers,
Lol

Edited by Lollorian, 20 December 2009 - 05:48 AM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Agreed, L1NPCs allows total control of what to do with your NPCs, but some sort of default template should probably be present, non?? And going by your argument, the BWP shouldn't install the NeJ NPC kits either (Imoen -> Charming Rogue, Jaheira -> Priest of Silvanus, Shar-Teel -> Firewalker) and Xan -> Sorcerer either ... since you could do the same with L1NPCs

The BWP is about choices, so create even more choices for the BWP ...

But the problem with Anomen is that the feature runs a script that makes the kit change when the quest is complete...

IF
InParty(Myself)
Global("IKNPCKit","LOCALS",0)
Global("AnomenIsKnight","GLOBAL",1)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
AddKit(GODHELM)
ReallyForceSpellRES("IKitAno1",Myself)
SetGlobal("IKNPCKit","LOCALS",1)
END

...so if the base class is changes before that, the whole creature goes F big time, whell unless we add the-

Class(Myself,FIGHTER_ALL)
Class(Myself,CLERIC_ALL)

-check to the script. And that's only the 1 case for one NPC, the other is the Berserker morph for Anomen, and what if we use a kit? And then Refinements and a Kit? And...

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 20 December 2009 - 07:57 AM.