76 replies to this topic

[Jarno Mikkola]

I don't know who is responsible for Tactics (Weimer certainly not...), so I posted here... Maybe somebody can send him a message...

It's maintained by ... dam-dam-di-daa... no one. So the only one having the possibility of making sure everything will work is the mod installer/BiG World Project and their tools. Daa.

[horred the plague]

In regards to BP and ANY other mod:

I tested with vanilla BG2-SoA and BP. It works, and it works well. I only went through the ToB portion of the game in my own tests. I tested Ascension. It works, and well.

The warning labels about Tactics and BP were first placed up around 2003. Tactics is primitive weidu, by today's standards. Harsh overwriter. Same as Ascension-Weidu. To hear of somebody still trying to make these work together side-by-side in this late date is pretty amazing. Don't do it, enough said I hope.

The way that SCS(v. whatever) and BP work, are different. BP takes other people's scripts and moves them aside, creating its own script. SCS comes into any script it finds in the slot it needs, and rewrites it. Mixing these is like mixing baking soda and vinegar. You're bound to see some explosive results, and some unexplainable quirks. The problem between them is at a fundamental level, and I don't think it's "fixable"

Don't expect me to spends ages accounting for every mod on the block. This is a big part of why I retired in the first place. BP is seven years old. There were only a handful of mods out, when it first appeared on the scene. Let the younger mods account for BP, instead, as I accounted for mods older than mine, years ago (mostly by absorption, but that's how megamods were born).

If this is a case of the requirement of BP core for Ascension-BP, causing you so much grief, I'll look into it when I have the time. I can define what is "core" a little clearer I suppose. Truthfully, only the 2da/ids and a few other files are what is required for many of BP's components. Unless the list of detectable's has changed drastically since we defined them back in 2003-5, other mods may have already added what BP components need before BP ever gets to it. This may make things easier? It will have to wait though, I've got a major overhaul of the Twin Cities CoPap NWN1 server to complete now, and catch-up work to do at Rogue Dao afterwards.

Edited by horred the plague, 02 November 2009 - 05:01 AM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

The warning labels about Tactics and BP were first placed up around 2003. Tactics is primitive weidu, by today's standards. Harsh overwriter. Same as Ascension-Weidu. To hear of somebody still trying to make these work together side-by-side in this late date is pretty amazing. Don't do it, enough said I hope.

Well, the todays Tactics is a bit more advanced than it seems, as it's being upgraded with the BiG World Fixpack to not overwrite everything... yes the results might be messy, so it's best to let the genius work their intelligence into them.

Mixing these is like mixing baking soda and vinegar.

Well said... if you meant to say that you will not even try to find all or any kinds of solutions to those problems... as it's not your problem.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 02 November 2009 - 12:46 PM.

[Chevalier]

In regards to BP and ANY other mod:
The way that SCS(v. whatever) and BP work, are different. BP takes other people's scripts and moves them aside, creating its own script. SCS comes into any script it finds in the slot it needs, and rewrites it. Mixing these is like mixing baking soda and vinegar. You're bound to see some explosive results, and some unexplainable quirks. The problem between them is at a fundamental level, and I don't think it's "fixable"

Let me ask the question so that we can have a clear answer. I am sure horred is right about "fixable". So as I understand it you have 3 choices.
1. Install SCS after BP and have SCS scripts written into BPs and you will have your baking soda and vinegar.
2. Install SCS before BP, since SCS doesn't change the names of the scripts BP will 'move' them and replace them with the BP scripts. This should allow SCS scripts to run on all creatures that BP doesn't change. (or am I wrong in thinking there are some/many creatures, like in BG1, that BP doesn't change?)
3. Pick only one.

The questions is: are the above statements correct?

[DavidWallace]

In regards to BP and ANY other mod:
The way that SCS(v. whatever) and BP work, are different. BP takes other people's scripts and moves them aside, creating its own script. SCS comes into any script it finds in the slot it needs, and rewrites it. Mixing these is like mixing baking soda and vinegar. You're bound to see some explosive results, and some unexplainable quirks. The problem between them is at a fundamental level, and I don't think it's "fixable"

Let me ask the question so that we can have a clear answer. I am sure horred is right about "fixable". So as I understand it you have 3 choices.
1. Install SCS after BP and have SCS scripts written into BPs and you will have your baking soda and vinegar.
2. Install SCS before BP, since SCS doesn't change the names of the scripts BP will 'move' them and replace them with the BP scripts. This should allow SCS scripts to run on all creatures that BP doesn't change. (or am I wrong in thinking there are some/many creatures, like in BG1, that BP doesn't change?)
3. Pick only one.

The questions is: are the above statements correct?

1. is probably right, though SCS actually made some allowance for BPv177 (mostly by having a list of the newly named BP scripts, so as to change them). It's fairly unlikely that I'm going to have time to research v179 and see what it does, but if someone else tells me how to make SCS compatible, I'll probably get round to incorporating it in the fullness of time.
2. isn't correct. Recent versions of SCS and SCSII change quite a lot of script names (I tried to avoid this for some while but eventually it became necessary).
3. is correct, and obviously the simplest choice.

[Graoumf]

Hello,

I've got an error during the install of BP v179d, for the 14th component: "Level-50 Ruleset (Code By King Diamond)"

[./override/MXSPLPAL.2DA] loaded, 1163 bytes
Appended text to [MXSPLPAL.2DA]
Appending to files column-wise ...
[./override/MXSPLPAL.2DA] loaded, 1186 bytes
Cannot append column-wise because there are 53 lines in MXSPLPAL.2DA but I was only given 45 things to append
Stopping installation because of error.

ERROR Installing [Regles de jeu etendues au niveau 50 (Code par King Diamond)], rolling back to previous state
[BPv179/BACKUP/14/UNSETSTR.14] SET_STRING uninstall info not found
Will uninstall 25 files for [SETUP-BPV179.TP2] component 14.

My install is (for the moment):

1) Complete install of BG1 + ToSC (with the patch "TOSC international patch v1.3.5512")
2) Complete install of BG2 + ToB (with the patch "Throne of Bhaal European Patch version 26498")
3) BG2 Fixpack v8
4) TS-BP v6.10
5) BGT-WeiDU v1.08 (31 oct)
6) BG1 NPC Project v18
7) Secret of BoneHill v2.40 (with the patch v245)
8 ) The Lure of Sirine's Call v8
9) The Grey Clan v1.8
10) The Vault_BGT v7.1
11) BG1 UB v9
12) Big Picture-WeiDU v179d


Here are my WeiDU.log and the SETUP-BPV179.DEBUG.

[Azazello]

@ horred:

You can advise that people don't mix (AI) mods all you want -- but you will be ignored. People want to mix-&-match even the weirdest mod combinations (I do it), and BWP's very mission statement is to make everything work together leaving it to the (usually clueless) player to decide what/not to install.

Welcome to the New Mega-Install World.

Even when the Mega-installation was a new idea -years ago- we already covered a lot of these points about Tactics & BP, and I for one would rather not see the debate rehashed...

Many issues can be resolved with changing the install order, with minimal patching/file-edits. Ascension and Tactics are two very clear examples. (Of course you may lose some gameplay options, but life is hard...)

If Tactics is put before BP, be prepared for BP to essentially push aside Tactics;
If Tactics is after BP, use the modified Tactics TP2 that will not install those components already in BP.

In fact, BiG World Fixpack already covers Tactics & Ascension issues, so I'm a bit surprised that this hasn't been mentioned in this thread, but then again since the BWP team have a lot of mods to juggle in their heads, they can't be on top of every mod change/quirk.

A note about that modified Tactics TP2: it needs to be updated with either the new fullname of the BP TP2 (e.g. FORBID_COMPONENT ~SETUP-BPv179.TP2~), or perhaps better, use some better marker-file.

As for expecting horred to monitor/babysit/nursemaid compatibility issues, I'm on your side of the fence that you should not. You've given us an updated mod, thank-you-very-much. We got plenty of people in the community to test and fix compat and other gameplays issues. Leave it to us, we'll get 'em fixed. You go rest with lemonade and a rocking chair, you've earned it!

Perhaps this thread should be closed off to congratulatory comments, and another thread started for BP "issues" ??

In regards to BP and ANY other mod:

I tested with vanilla BG2-SoA and BP. It works, and it works well. I only went through the ToB portion of the game in my own tests. I tested Ascension. It works, and well.

The warning labels about Tactics and BP were first placed up around 2003. Tactics is primitive weidu, by today's standards. Harsh overwriter. Same as Ascension-Weidu. To hear of somebody still trying to make these work together side-by-side in this late date is pretty amazing. Don't do it, enough said I hope.

The way that SCS(v. whatever) and BP work, are different. BP takes other people's scripts and moves them aside, creating its own script. SCS comes into any script it finds in the slot it needs, and rewrites it. Mixing these is like mixing baking soda and vinegar. You're bound to see some explosive results, and some unexplainable quirks. The problem between them is at a fundamental level, and I don't think it's "fixable"

Don't expect me to spends ages accounting for every mod on the block. This is a big part of why I retired in the first place. BP is seven years old. There were only a handful of mods out, when it first appeared on the scene. Let the younger mods account for BP, instead, as I accounted for mods older than mine, years ago (mostly by absorption, but that's how megamods were born).

If this is a case of the requirement of BP core for Ascension-BP, causing you so much grief, I'll look into it when I have the time. I can define what is "core" a little clearer I suppose. Truthfully, only the 2da/ids and a few other files are what is required for many of BP's components. Unless the list of detectable's has changed drastically since we defined them back in 2003-5, other mods may have already added what BP components need before BP ever gets to it. This may make things easier? It will have to wait though, I've got a major overhaul of the Twin Cities CoPap NWN1 server to complete now, and catch-up work to do at Rogue Dao afterwards.

Edited by Azazello, 04 November 2009 - 10:35 PM.

[Graoumf]

Well I don't install Tactics, unless you spoke one of the BP's component... and BP's Ascension component install works fine, that's not the problem.
But nevermind, I will go on, it was just to report. If I do this install, it's not for playing, but to analyse, proofread some translations in game. I don't care about the game alone.

And I based this install on Erebusant's one (in this order), as I said here, after reading these topics (here and here particularly, where I found Erebusant's install).

I finished the install and there was only this bug I mentionned about the uninstall of "Level-50 Ruleset (Code By King Diamond)" in BP.

Edited by Graoumf, 04 November 2009 - 05:47 PM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Is there some significance to using the .7Z format for this file ?

Well, generally it takes less space than a .zip file(or .rar), and you can extract it with the most up to date archive tools like WinRAR... that are totally free.

[Lollorian]

Call me paranoid, but that really looks lika one of those spambots running around Ofcourse, call me paranoid if I'm wrong

On another note, any chance of the version in the download manager (v177) being replaced by the v179d one soon??

Cheers,
Lol

[Lollorian]

Methinks I owe you an apology then Sorry about that

Cheers,
Lol

[10th]

In contrast to the original Ascension Yagaaft.bcs doesn't apply yagweak.spl to yaga01.cre.

10th

[horred the plague]

In contrast to the original Ascension Yagaaft.bcs doesn't apply yagweak.spl to yaga01.cre.

10th

This never claimed to be a flawless faithful rendition of Gaider's Ascension. If it was, I'd never have needed his permission to alter it.

EDIT: However, upon reviewing, this one seems to be a valid issue. It will be included in the upcoming BPv180.

Edited by horred the plague, 30 January 2010 - 06:39 AM.

[Graoumf]

Well nothing very important, but if you plan to release the v180, there is 3 strings which is are in the .tp2 and the Setup.tra. it will be nice if you could change the .tp2 code in order it matches the Setup.tra:

REPLACE ~99777~ ~Big Picture is brought to you by Horred the Plague.~
REPLACE ~99778~ ~A special thanks to all the modders and modmakers that made Big Picture possible!~
REPLACE ~99779~ ~Be sure to stop through Horred's Lair on your grand adventures!
(Are fireballs considered 'warm welcomes'?)~

Thanks.

Edited by Graoumf, 30 January 2010 - 06:49 AM.