154 replies to this topic

[Lollorian]

Miloch, on Oct 10 2009, 12:21 AM, said:

Kinda wondering if I should even bother adding the ones with containers to Unique Containers. Why did you bother translating them even (the bad ones, that is)?

Well For one, I was kinda annoyed by all the non-english mods out there and them guys translating every english one like no tomorrow I started only with the quest mods, then saw that the store mods wouldn't take much more time ... and finally graduated to the NPC mods (I was bored at the time cause BWP8 was taking long )

Anyway, the second point was that, since they're gonna be installed by english users, they're gonna be noticed more now ... And sooner or later, someone's gonna report about the overpoweredness (like mm_75 and OneEyedPhoenix are doing for DS/NTotSC)

Miloch, on Oct 10 2009, 12:21 AM, said:

Go ahead, install them on BG2, play them. Laugh. No need to slap them onto BWP as well though.

Ya know what? I'm gonna install them ... and I'm gonna laugh like I've never laughed before <maniacal laughter>

Anyway, since the BWP is a project that tries to incorporate ALL mods for ALL kinds of players (not only the FR purists and game-balance seekers), leaving them out (even though they're perfectly usable) seems contradictory

Since there's no possibility of creating a special Joke Mods install mode (I think ), if they're shifted to a Tactics/Expert install, do you think first-time players who just wanna see extra (non-buggy) content would see them?? In fact, moving them to Tactics (which is supposed to be for l33t and tactical gamers ... who won't be the least excited about such mods) seems like giving cheese to the cats while the mice look on

They're just flavor and can be easily unchecked using the BWS. Now you don't expect first-time BWS users to critically examine each mod and check/uncheck them to fit theire play style now, do you?? Users experienced with the BWS can uncheck them easily (instead of expecting n00bs to check them)

Cheers,
Lol

[Leonardo Watson]

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AoE should also go near the end of any install, or after any mods that add weapons.

BWP installs AoE very late after most mods but before the Tweak mods. There are a lot of dependences with other mods and it needed long time to figure out the install order of the "HLA mods" thus I don't like to touch them or move them without solid reasons.

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I suppose I *could* code Aurora such so that if AoE is already installed, it installs AoE versions of the weapons. There are a few mods coded like this (some of the G3 kittish mods like Song & Silence etc.).

That would be the end of a lot of worries because there are conflicts with other mods when installed in the wrong order. For example BGTTweaks cannot be installed after Aurora (because of messages: all slots full for extend, multiple extends and ERROR: Failure("Conflict in priority list."))

I tried to move BGTTweak forwards (after the BG1 mods) but it seems this causes again new problems. If I could install Aurora main component together with the subcomponents at the end I don't need to touch the present install order.

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Do you have a rough estimate on the next BWP?

mid or end of october

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Why not as suggested:

* 1PP
* IR main component
* [Patching mods etc.]
* Aurora main component*
* AoE
* IR subcomponents
* Aurora subcomponents
* [GUI mods, Biffing, Level 1 NPCs etc.]

Indeed at the moment I use the order as you suggest (with other mods between them)


By the way: I thought about a "no joke mods" selection for the BWP installer. But why not leave them just out of the BGII main folder?

[Miloch]

Mike1072, on Oct 10 2009, 02:26 AM, said:

To answer your questions, Miloch, the component patching this item is one of IR's item-related tweaks. This component patches mod weapons so that they follow the same rules as the weapons in IR's main component.

But it is necessary to patch undroppable items - creature claw attacks and the like? Also do you account for Ashes of Embers potentially being installed?

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Separating the 1PP content from IR would be impossible without having to keep a separate list of IR customisations within 1PP. Keeping it as it is allows us to maintain the graphical appearance of our items and saves us from having to keep "ugly" versions of items around for when 1PP isn't installed.

Well, I suspect it would be possible if your main component patched instead of overwrote . That way you wouldn't have to worry about it either way.

Lollorian, on Oct 10 2009, 04:06 AM, said:

Now you don't expect first-time BWS users to critically examine each mod and check/uncheck them to fit theire play style now, do you??

No, I don't. And even if I did, they wouldn't do so. Which is why out-of-character mods should be unchecked by default. If someone really wants them, they can select them manually.

Leonardo Watson, on Oct 10 2009, 05:24 AM, said:

That would be the end of a lot of worries because there are conflicts with other mods when installed in the wrong order.

I'll see if I can look at it then and do something about AoE and BGTTweaks.

Quote

By the way: I thought about a "no joke mods" selection for the BWP installer. But why not leave them just out of the BGII main folder?

That might work, or maybe the option above (unselected by default). I don't know how it works currently - I haven't had disk space or time to do a BWP install since 5.0 .

[Jarno Mikkola]

Miloch, on Oct 10 2009, 04:30 PM, said:

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By the way: I thought about a "no joke mods" selection for the BWP installer. But why not leave them just out of the BGII main folder?

That might work, or maybe the option above (unselected by default). I don't know how it works currently - I haven't had disk space or time to do a BWP install since 5.0 .

It basically should work like this: If you are using the BWS; You get to select an option, which then gives you all the mods included in it, you can then remove mods at your leisure... so if you wish to install an Expert mod, you need to select the Expert install, and then use the 'Further installation options...' or what ever, you then unselect all the mods you do not wish to install, then the BW Setup will download all the selected mods, and then extract them and the BiG World Install.bat which will then be customized to your individual needs by the BWS, then the BWS has done its job so it will quit, but that will start the 'BiG World Install.bat' which will install everything if you install the selected language and in the Expert mode.

There is one selection for Language: English, German or Spanish.
One to disable the Non language specific mods.
One for install mode: Minimal, Recommended, Standard, Tactical or Expert.
One for installing BGT and it's sub-mods or not, with are also suspect to the install mode question.

Of course the BWS v9 you can select nearly every component with the 'Further installation options...' too, but it never hurts to have many 'general options'.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 10 October 2009 - 06:21 AM.

[Lollorian]

I felt I should also mention this When you "further customize your install", you have the option to check/uncheck mods as you please. as Jarno already mentioned.

BUT, in the Options menu in the top-left, you have the option to Export/import your selection to/from an .ini file So, anybody could just uncheck the JZ and CloakWood Squares Mods and export their list and name the file something like No-Joke Install.ini and attach it for others to download and import into their BWSes

(Since BWS9 supports component selection as well, you could uncheck individual joke components like "Mprilla the spammer" etc If somebody can list which mods exactly are the joke mods, even I could just export a list for you to download and import )

So, that kinda solves the "No-Joke" mode installation

Cheers,
Lol

Edited by Lollorian, 11 October 2009 - 01:12 AM.

[melkor_morgoth75]

I would skip the installation of Dark Horizon in a BWP game as for now. I noticed most of the items doesn't work as intended behaviour as per description (lot of weapons give #attacks per orudn or AC bonuses without specifying it in the description section). Some others protect u but u don't have a icon set on character (es. protection from fire icon). Mostly of the weapon still have in the description fields the "old" BG1 proficiencies (es. blunt weapons instead of Warhammer, long sword instead of scimitars, etc...).

Just my 2 cents,
mm75

[Drax]

Speaking as a first time BWP user I went ahead and read the description of every single mod I was installing and those two definitely stood out as being non-lore just from their descriptions. It's nice to hear they're well done as I hesitated for a while on whether to install them or not.. but I figured in a game THIS big a little time out for some tongue-in-cheek fun sounded like something worth leaving in.

My suggestion would be to make them part of the standard install, but not part of the recommended install (I'm not sure if that's already the case). Standard seems like it's the, "I want a really freaking big moded game experience without rewriting the combat system for people who've played through 1,000 times and can take on Drizzt with both hands tied behind their backs [/guardvoice]" pick, and recommended seems like it's, "A tight selection that keeps to the spirit of the unmoded game, just adds a bit more spice... oh and everything works.".

I think all you'd need to do is mention in the readme or somewhere that the standard install does feature a few non-lore parody type mods and people would know to look for them and decide whether to keep them. You might want to mention that they're well done, and not just some cheesy addition to the mod list, as that's what had me hesitating. *shrug*

[Lollorian]

Considering that the BWS currently supports 5 modes:

• Minimal - Play BGI in BGII-ToB with all the bugfixes... no less, no more
  
• Recommended - If someone skipped the vanilla game and started playing directly from this mode, he won't know the difference between original and modded content ... yeah, the quality is THAT high!!!
  
• Standard - One thing guaranteed ... NO BUGS!!! Balance, lore etc not guaranteed
  
• Tactics - Ya think Irenicus/Melissan/Kangaxx/Shandalar were tough ... Well try fighting KOBOLDS in this mode!!! (that was a wee bit exaggerated for shock value )
  
• Expert - Hello Bug World Project!!!

[Lollorian]

Some more mods From TeamBG:

iiKey Names - makes the player know if a key has already been used

iiProjectile Retrieval - Realism FTW!!! (you can even set the % of retrievable stuff )

iiSpell System Adjustments - May not be compatible with all the new spells, but it's a powergamer's dream mod

Cheers,
Lol

[Jarno Mikkola]

Lollorian, on Oct 14 2009, 12:32 PM, said:

iiKey Names - makes the player know if a key has already been used

iiProjectile Retrieval - Realism FTW!!! (you can even set the % of retrievable stuff )

iiSpell System Adjustments - May not be compatible with all the new spells, but it's a powergamer's dream mod

Well, I do not think the Projectile Retrieval mod is that much needed, and would suggest that one would use the iiSA when the suggested v5 comes out, and the BWS would let the user to define the numbers... cause the mod will have either no use at all, or will brake the game if intelligence is not used in the number use. So it either goes to expert, or not at all for now.
The iiKey mod could be installed in the standard install if someone would test and clear it for possible, but unlikely bugs.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 14 October 2009 - 02:09 AM.

[Ascension64]

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"all slots full for extend." and "multiple extends."

A note of clarification on this. When these are reported, it means that there is a problem present with the current iteration, and BGT Tweak will try a different method of extending scripts in the next iteration. This means that it doesn't matter if you get any of these messages so long as the component installs. If there are issues extending scripts so that all CREs have the right script block with this method, the component refuses to install after a certain number of attempts, and prompts the user to check if it should keep going.

Naturally, installing this component after more mods increases the risk of failure of install of the component, but if it does report successful install if installed after Aurora, then there should be no problems.

I would recommend that the component be installed some time after installing mods that add CREs to the BG1 part of the game.

[Miloch]

Ascension64, on Oct 16 2009, 07:03 AM, said:

I would recommend that the component be installed some time after installing mods that add CREs to the BG1 part of the game.

Aurora doesn't do this (well, Karaea doesn't really count as she moves around and shouldn't really have a breakable weapon) so it really shouldn't matter which mod is installed first - whatever works best and quickest I guess (probably meaning BGTTweaks should go first).

[Darpaek]

I can't find the thread, but a few weeks ago we were discussing the mod that added Final Fantasy items and spells. I can't remember the name of the mod anymore either (but I'm sure someone can refresh my memory).

I know that several of us, from that discussion, all came to the agreement that that mod should be moved out of a Tactics install and into an Expert install because the items and spells are so imbalanced (level 5 cleric spell that mimics Mass Heal, etc) and the items kinda "take over" the random treasure tables (BG1 Goblins drop Firaga scrolls, etc).

As for the jokes, my two cents: I know on my last tactics playthru I feel I would have really missed out on something cool if JZ and CWS weren't included in my build. I know, they're stupid, spoilerish, and they don't fit in with anything, but they made me LMAO. And it's not like either of the mods force themselves on you (although maybe a patch to move the NPC away from the frontdoor of the CNet, but the backroom of an Inn you never visit isn't that bad)

Edit: Aurora rules!!!! LOLz

Edited by Darpaek, 16 October 2009 - 10:06 AM.

[Miloch]

Darpaek, on Oct 16 2009, 06:04 PM, said:

I can't find the thread, but a few weeks ago we were discussing the mod that added Final Fantasy items and spells. I can't remember the name of the mod anymore either (but I'm sure someone can refresh my memory).

Is it Exnem's Vault? Kinda sounds like it.

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As for the jokes, my two cents: I know on my last tactics playthru I feel I would have really missed out on something cool if JZ and CWS weren't included in my build. I know, they're stupid, spoilerish, and they don't fit in with anything, but they made me LMAO.

Now how is any of that related to "tactics"? It's related to "jokes." When I think of tactical mods, I think of SCS etc.

For that matter, isn't the so-called "expert" install the biggest misnomer ever? I think it should be renamed "insane" or "foolish" or something. You're not an expert if you install every buggy, out-of-place half-baked mod ever devised .

[Darpaek]

Ughhh.... no I don't think that's the mod. Isn't Exnem's Vault the one that sprinkles all the Prot +6 and Prot +10 rings whose bonus stacks with other Prot items around? That's another mod I would agree we could do without, but I don't think that's the Final Fantasy mod.

Arghhh!!! This is really bugging me now. I'm googling and I can't find the final fantasy mod. It really annoys me because it was the one glaring bad spot on my otherwise very nice Tactics build.

As per the Tactics, I just mentioned Tactics because that was the level of my build. I just think moving JZ and CWS to Expert (or unchecked by default) would take away something that was REALLY fun. I'm with ya - I thought twice about installing them when I read their descriptions - but I'm glad I did because they were really fun. I wouldn't put them in Recommended (because they're so far out there), but I think they'd be okay in Standard - especially with a small patch to make the CWS NPC spawn somewhere other than the front of the Copper Coronet (maybe have him spawn in the Den of Seven Vales in front of the JZ door - something like the patch that moves the spawn for the Drizzt Saga to the exit of Durlag's Tower, etc).

[Darpaek]

WAIT! Found it!

http://www.shsforums...l=final fantasy

Yup, you're totally right M. It's Exnem's Vault. PLEASE LEO - move this to Expert. My 8.0 BWP would have been sooooooo much more fun without this mod.

Now.... what mod does the Prot+6 and Prot+10 (Titanium Ring) rings? Could we get that moved to Expert, too?

[Miloch]

Darpaek, on Oct 16 2009, 06:56 PM, said:

Now.... what mod does the Prot+6 and Prot+10 (Titanium Ring) rings?

Well you could've just looked it up with DLTCEP and then done a weidu --change-log xrng005.itm. Have you learned nothing in these forums, grasshopper?

It is also from Exnem Vault.

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Could we get that moved to Expert, too?

Well I think it already is (I mentioned it in like the first post too) but let's see... The ring's description includes "Sauron", "knights", "titanium" and "+10". That's not "Expert," son, that's "Foolish" .

[Lollorian]

Miloch, on Oct 16 2009, 11:51 PM, said:

For that matter, isn't the so-called "expert" install the biggest misnomer ever? I think it should be renamed "insane" or "foolish" or something. You're not an expert if you install every buggy, out-of-place half-baked mod ever devised .

I think it's more a language problem than an intended misnomer (otherwise, they'd have name the "Tactics" version "Tactical" version or sommin )

But yeah, there are limitations to the install.bat in the letters that it can use ... the only letters left for use (if e(X)pert gets scrapped) are D, I, U, V and X ... so maybe e(X)pert could be renamed to (D)ebug, (I)nsane, (U)nplayable, (V)ery Buggy or maybe "E(X)treme Debugging Required!!!"

Cheers,
Lol

[Darpaek]

Miloch, on Oct 16 2009, 03:28 PM, said:

Darpaek, on Oct 16 2009, 06:56 PM, said:

Now.... what mod does the Prot+6 and Prot+10 (Titanium Ring) rings?

Well you could've just looked it up with DLTCEP and then done a weidu --change-log xrng005.itm. Have you learned nothing in these forums, grasshopper?

It is also from Exnem Vault.

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Could we get that moved to Expert, too?

Well I think it already is (I mentioned it in like the first post too) but let's see... The ring's description includes "Sauron", "knights", "titanium" and "+10". That's not "Expert," son, that's "Foolish" .

I finished my playthru a month and a half ago! I've already uninstalled. I just like the community here, so I pop in every few days and try and answers any questions I can to help people (b/c I like learned stuff during my build).

Man, that Exnem guy sure does like screwing with my game! LOL

[Miloch]

Varshoon and Quayle Project are released. Also, as I mentioned here, Bolsa v4 is out, if you want more imba items .

Don't know if anyone's mentioned these either. Too lazy to comb through this thread again, but I didn't see them mentioned in the BWP v8.1 topic:
Rose NPC
ktweaks
Konalan's Tweaks
Item Pack

Edited by Miloch, 21 October 2009 - 04:27 PM.