69 replies to this topic

[Lollorian]

Shouldn't Aurora be treated pretty much like the other many-tweakable-subcomponents mods like MixMod, DEFJAM and BP-Balancer??

Anyway, I thought you might just flag the components as conflicts (you know, like Aurora's Price changes conflicts with Hard Times price increase ... etc etc )

Imho, the best solution for me (and more work for you ) would be to separate all the tweak components from the main mod selection and put them in a different page, and show the user the "recommended" settings but allow it to be changed

Yeah, I know, more work ... so next year

Cheers,
Lol

[dabus]

Hardtimes has no conflict, it just makes you pay.

It just that those mods you mentioned heavily depend on what you have installed: None, one, two or more big mods. So the effect it has changes drastically from Recommended to Expert.
That's the only reason I ask if it needs a special treatment.

But since you reminded me, I think the best method would include a message to the other "final"-warnings-screen.

So the question would rather be now:
Do you agree with the selections in the batch-file which have to take the bigger mod-installations into account?
But that topic is extremely user-specific anyway, so you don't have to answer that.

By the way: The other tweak-mods do not bother me, at least not currently.
And you can always change your settings, anyway.

Edited by dabus, 12 December 2009 - 12:04 PM.

[Leomar]

Here is the Install.bat code for "Ding0's Experience Fixer":

%IFS%xpmod%IFNIF%TDD%IFNIF%SOS%IFNIF%CtB%IFNIF%TS-BP%IFNIF%RoT%IFNIF%NeJ2.exe goto :OneBig
%IFS%xpmod%IFIF%TDD%IFNIF%SOS%IFNIF%CtB%IFNIF%TS-BP%IFNIF%RoT%IFNIF%NeJ2.exe goto :OneBig
%IFS%xpmod%IFIF%SOS%IFNIF%TDD%IFNIF%CtB%IFNIF%TS-BP%IFNIF%RoT%IFNIF%NeJ2.exe goto :OneBig
%IFS%xpmod%IFIF%CtB%IFNIF%TDD%IFNIF%SOS%IFNIF%TS-BP%IFNIF%RoT%IFNIF%NeJ2.exe goto :OneBig
%IFS%xpmod%IFIF%TS-BP%IFNIF%TDD%IFNIF%SOS%IFNIF%CtB%IFNIF%RoT%IFNIF%NeJ2.exe goto :OneBig
%IFS%xpmod%IFIF%RoT%IFNIF%TDD%IFNIF%SOS%IFNIF%CtB%IFNIF%TS-BP%IFNIF%NeJ2.exe goto :OneBig
%IFS%xpmod%IFIF%NeJ2%IFNIF%TDD%IFNIF%SOS%IFNIF%CtB%IFNIF%TS-BP%IFNIF%RoT.exe goto :OneBig

%IFES%xpmod%S%xpmod%L%0%SK% 1 12 | %M%
%IFGS%xpmod%S%xpmod%L%4%SK% 1 12 | %M%
%IFHS%xpmod%S%xpmod%L%3%SK% 1 12 | %M%
goto :XPend

:OneBig
%IFES%xpmod%S%xpmod%L%0%SK% 0 11 | %M%
%IFGS%xpmod%S%xpmod%L%4%SK% 0 11 | %M%
%IFHS%xpmod%S%xpmod%L%3%SK% 0 11 | %M%
:XPend

That means, if you install only one of the big BG2 mods, then the settings are 75%. By more then one it is 50%.


Here is the Install.bat code for "Aurora Shoes and Boots":

%IFS%aurora%S%aurora%L%0%SK% 0 10 | %M%

%IFS%aurora%IFNIF%TDD%IFNIF%SOS%IFNIF%CtB%IFNIF%TS-BP%IFNIF%RoT%IFNIF%NeJ2.exe goto :BigOne
%IFS%aurora%IFIF%TDD%IFNIF%SOS%IFNIF%CtB%IFNIF%TS-BP%IFNIF%RoT%IFNIF%NeJ2.exe goto :BigOne
%IFS%aurora%IFIF%SOS%IFNIF%TDD%IFNIF%CtB%IFNIF%TS-BP%IFNIF%RoT%IFNIF%NeJ2.exe goto :BigOne
%IFS%aurora%IFIF%CtB%IFNIF%TDD%IFNIF%SOS%IFNIF%TS-BP%IFNIF%RoT%IFNIF%NeJ2.exe goto :BigOne
%IFS%aurora%IFIF%TS-BP%IFNIF%TDD%IFNIF%SOS%IFNIF%CtB%IFNIF%RoT%IFNIF%NeJ2.exe goto :BigOne
%IFS%aurora%IFIF%RoT%IFNIF%TDD%IFNIF%SOS%IFNIF%CtB%IFNIF%TS-BP%IFNIF%NeJ2.exe goto :BigOne
%IFS%aurora%IFIF%NeJ2%IFNIF%TDD%IFNIF%SOS%IFNIF%CtB%IFNIF%TS-BP%IFNIF%RoT.exe goto :BigOne

%IFS%aurora%S%aurora%L%0%SK% 105 180 210 247 420 467 500 520 --logapp | %M%
goto :GPend

:BigOne
%IFS%aurora%S%aurora%L%0%SK% 110 175 215 247 420 470 500 520 --logapp | %M%
:GPend

That means, if you install only one of the big BG2 mods, then the settings are the recommend ones. By more then one the settings changes for one step.

Two problems we have with both mods at the moment.
1.) We have not much options to do a better selected component selection with a batch. So we decided, to do this for the recommend-version. The recommend version includes only one big BG2 mod and therefore are the changes. If you choose another installation, so we think, that the gamer installs much much more and the other settings were chose.
2.) The bigger problem. We've not really experience with all different styles of installations to know, which are the best settings for each case.

You get the most EXP boost with the big BG2 mods and if you install all, then is 50% (DEFJAM) fine. We chose the 50%, because the SHS community used it since a long time. For Aurora we don't know what are the best settings with all big BG2 mods...

So it is not easy to do defaults. Are 75% (DEFJAM) and recommed settings (Aurora) fine, too, if you install two big BG2 mods? We really don't know.

But we must choose defaults for the batch and the gamer will use them. All is handled like this since the last years and with defaults we get user input. With the user input we can arrange/change new better defaults/settings.

With the upcoming BWS the gamer has the chance to choose, which components he wants, but we need default ones, too. And for the default ones, we need user input/in-game experience with different settings. And that needs time.
So, if this is possible, we could try to do a better selection with the BWS as we have with the Install.bat.

Greetings Leomar

Edited by Leomar, 12 December 2009 - 08:29 PM.

[Lollorian]

I thought the old agprices and Aurora were separate mods

The default options should imho (again ) be the (recommended) components. (only for 1 megamod like in standard)
If >2 megas, use the next subcomponent after (recommended)
If all megas, use the next to next sub after (recommended)

Btw, which mods do ya consider mega?? BGII has 6 (TDD, SoS CtB, TS, RoT, NeJ) and BGI has 5 (DH, DSotSC, NTotSC, SoBH, Drizzt) that's 11 there ... then there's BGT, Ascension and BP. And the (as yet) untranslated Tales of Anegh seems big too. And looking at this, looks like the family's only gonna increase

So, instead of the present no mega/more than 1 mega/all mega division, how about making it scale more linearly?? Like none/1-3/4-8/8-11 megas for recommended/slight increase/big increase/GINORMOUS increase??

Cheers,
Lol

Edited by Lollorian, 12 December 2009 - 09:10 PM.

[Leomar]

So, instead of the present no mega/more than 1 mega/all mega division, how about making it scale more linearly?? Like none/1-3/4-8/8-11 megas for recommended/slight increase/big increase/GINORMOUS increase??

It sounds good, but is not really doable. The problem is BGT or better the combination of BG1 and BG2. If you use 75% (DEFJAM) both BG1 and BG2 should be fine, but with too mods, it would be too easy at the end of the games. If you chose 50%, then it could be good for many installations for BG2, but BG1 will be harder and it is not easy to gain the first levels. Think about other solutions and there exist some special circumstances for imbalance. So your example with "big increase" and "GINORMOUS" can make BG1 unplayable, and good tacticians could get real problems. That would be harder as the complete tactic-version...

So we should go the easy way first and use harder selections only with practical experiences. Since some time, we have en XP mod in mind, to balance the ubermods separately. But that could be very time consuming and a topic, which should not discussed in Dabus BWS topic.

Greetings Leomar

[Lollorian]

If you chose 50%, then it could be good for many installations for BG2, but BG1 will be harder and it is not easy to gain the first levels. Think about other solutions and there exist some special circumstances for imbalance. So your example with "big increase" and "GINORMOUS" can make BG1 unplayable, and good tacticians could get real problems. That would be harder as the complete tactic-version...

I never thought of it that way Yeah, BGI would be pretty nasty indeed

Coming back to Aurora, imho (and once more ) the (recommended) for no megas, the next comp for 1-11 megas and the next to next comp for all megas seems reasonable for default values (but let the user know that he/she could change it too )

Cheers,
Lol

Edited by Lollorian, 12 December 2009 - 11:53 PM.

[Lollorian]

Woah This thread needs some bumping

Anyway, could the BWS edit the baldur.ini to say that all the movies (BGII+ToB and BGI+TotSC if BGT installed) have already played?? The movies are not skippable when they play for the first time and personally I get tired of Sarevok's cheesy laugh at the start of EVERY test (not that I don't like the guy falling down and the crunch though ... ouch )

Doing so would enable the movies to be skipped (as imho 75% of the people using the BWP have already played the game atleast once?? ... 75% ok?? ) Thanks!

[dabus]

Movie-stuff is done.

One other thing that will be introduced - erm - when it's done, is a small and shiny language-selection.



With this simple mechanic, you will not be bound to translations as known until now.
Just tell the BWS your preferences and *zap* there it goes.
Well, at least it sounds good to me and as you can see, the Config-GUI is making some progress.

[Fouinto]

One other thing that will be introduced - erm - when it's done, is a small and shiny language-selection.

With this simple mechanic, you will not be bound to translations as known until now.
Just tell the BWS your preferences and *zap* there it goes.
Well, at least it sounds good to me and as you can see, the Config-GUI is making some progress.

Just a single word to tell you what i think of this (but a whole sentence to introduce it ) : GREAT !

[Jarno Mikkola]

Just tell the BWS your preferences and *zap* there it goes.

As long as there is the option to go with one language only... everything else is GREAT(for someone else), but still just a bonus.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 22 February 2010 - 05:10 AM.

[dabus]

Well, I think you are missing the point since nobody seems to translate to Finish.

Currently, you cannot choose if you want to have mods installed in French and English and prefer English. Say you have an English version and live in France. And if you can also speak German, you might add that as a third option.

See? You can set priorities and select the language. That is was not available neither in the BiG World Install.bat, nor in the current BWS, nor in my beta.

Edited by dabus, 22 February 2010 - 05:58 AM.

[Lollorian]

Ah, now that you explained it like that ... very cool feature (although I won't use it, but that's one step closer to a pro international BGseries mod installer )

Well, I think you are missing the point since nobody seems to translate to Finish.

Someone should try translating mods to Hindi (even if someone did, I'm sure I won't play with that )

[dabus]

Hm, too bad, there is no Hindi.



Parles-tu français ?
Do you speak italiano?

Edited by dabus, 25 February 2010 - 12:53 PM.

[dabus]

Ok, another on.

I created a little script to go through the tp2-codes of every mod that is included in the BWP.
I added some color to improve readability.

REQUIRE_COMPONENT (green)
INSTALL_BY_DEFAULT(green)
FORBID_COMPONENT (red)
REQUIRE_PREDICATE (blue)

The result is this.

Do I have to search for more stuff to find out about conflicts and dependencies?

I also wonder how many translation of the game are available and the best choice to get it from the currently available dialog.tlk-file.

[Lollorian]

Do I have to search for more stuff to find out about conflicts and dependencies?

Methinks some mods use:

ACTION_IF FILE_EXISTS
ACTION_IF FILE_EXISTS_IN_GAME
ACTION_IF NOT FILE_EXISTS
ACTION_IF NOT FILE_EXISTS_IN_GAME

to check for other mods (from the biffing stuff, I know the megamods check for each other's XXX-RULE.bif's using that) For example NTotSC can only be installed if DSC001.are (DSotSC area) is present That's a dependancy right??

[dabus]

Damn that flexibility.

Updated file.
Wow. Funny stuff. If I am correct and you decide to install AoE-kits after the BWP-install has finished (which cleans the override-folder), the check for the readme-file in your override may either have your PC running in circles for hours or blow up your install since the TP2 starts like this:

ALWAYS
PRINT @600
ACTION_IF NOT FILE_EXISTS ~override\J#AoEV22.txt~ THEN BEGIN
UNINSTALL ~SETUP-ASHESOFEMBERS.TP2~ 0
...

Isn't checking for stuff that should not be in an override-folder rather stupid? And why uninstall stuff then anyway?

Geez. People tend to do stuff I would not expect.

Like copying other dummy-files like r#abystore.rpgd as another test if a mod is already installed. Mods sure seem to be a little messy under the hood.

Edited by dabus, 11 March 2010 - 01:36 PM.

[Miloch]

Isn't checking for stuff that should not be in an override-folder rather stupid? And why uninstall stuff then anyway?

Geez. People tend to do stuff I would not expect.

Like copying other dummy-files like r#abystore.rpgd as another test if a mod is already installed. Mods sure seem to be a little messy under the hood.

A lot of older mods do stuff like this because they were devised before cleaner WeiDU commands. It looks stupid now, but it may have been the only way to accomplish stuff back then.

There's also:
ACTION_IF MOD_IS_INSTALLED
ACTION_IF NOT MOD_IS_INSTALLED
FORCED_SUBCOMPONENT (like INSTALL_BY_DEFAULT - see here)

[Mike1072]

Do I have to search for more stuff to find out about conflicts and dependencies?

SUBCOMPONENT ~Imoen Mage Kit~ (FILE_EXISTS_IN_GAME ~turnip.spl~)

The brackets behave like a REQUIRE_PREDICATE.

[dabus]

@Miloch: I agree that searching for your content in the override is good/valid way of checking for installs, but I still think that you should check content and not copy "crap/dummies" to do that.

Oh dear. I think I'll just skip FILE-stuff that is not located 5 lines underneath a BEGIN-block. It's just too much output...

Edit:
Added FORBID_FILE-condition.

For all that are interested can view the updated colored output here. If you put the files in your installation-directory, you can use the links to open your tp2-files.

Edited by dabus, 14 March 2010 - 03:46 PM.

[dabus]

Ok. I must admit that I either did not search right but I did not find an easy way to create artificial warning.

BACKUP test
AUTHOR "nobody@home.com"
MODDER missing_extern warn

BEGIN "Test 0" DESIGNATED 0
PRINT "This should be a success."

BEGIN "Test 10" DESIGNATED 10 
REQUIRE_COMPONENT "setup-bla.tp2" "0" "You must have bla installed!"
PRINT "This should not be displayed if you don't have bla."

BEGIN "Test 20" DESIGNATED 20 
FORBID_COMPONENT "setup-tp.tp2" "0" "You must not have the textpatch installed!"
PRINT "This should not be displayed if you have the textpatch." 

BEGIN "Test 30" DESIGNATED 30 
COMPILE ~test/virtual.D~
PRINT "This should be a warning."

BEGIN "Test 50" DESIGNATED 50
FAIL "This should be a failure."

As you might guess, I played with a test.D-file with a missing reference-file like this:

BEGIN ~virtual~
IF ~~ THEN BEGIN test1
  SAY WARNING 
  IF ~~ THEN EXTERN virtual test2
END

IF ~~ THEN BEGIN test2
  SAY More Stuff
END

until I recognized that this will not result in a warning.
Discovered this is written down in the readme when reading the upper part of the text...

So: How do I write that?
Would be awesome to speed up debugging by creating my own states on purpose.

Edited by dabus, 03 April 2010 - 06:10 AM.