11 replies to this topic

[Kuugen]

The basic idea is, that while the time of troubles went on, <GODTHOUGHTDEAD> did not really die or go missing but was sealed by an evil cult that worship <INSERTRIVALGODHERE> and keep that very god imprisoned in a hidden tomb. Point is, this could both be a good or evil god imprisoned and i think there's a good deal of gods gone MIA in the ToT. ( My knowledge only goes so far, and I'm not quite willing to spent days and weeks reading up on endless material regarding this )

The plot basically goes: Find Tomb, Go in and find out what is going on and make your way through with diplomacy ( they're not quite loyal after all this time in a dusty tomb ) bribing ( see diplomacy ) violence ( they should pack quite a bunch ) or just don't and go your ways. ( defeats purpose of this, doesn't it? )

The tomb should be QUITE heavily guarded, with shitloads of traps and protection stuff that isn't supposed to be broken. So you have to find a way to actually unseal it instead of going through simple "tests" like in WK. In the end, you reach the end and find the imprisoned god and ( I know, this does sound like watchers keep, but why not? WK was awesome )


Because the question of "what sort of gameplay" came up. well. Go in, slaughter everyone doesn't work here. It's more of a "be smart, only kill what you should kill and make prisoners" sort of thing.

Edited by Kuugen, 15 July 2009 - 06:29 PM.

[Chevalier]

Bhaal and Mellisan aren't the only ones that have plans about the Bhaalspawn. A certain god from another dimension plans to intervene in the planes of the forgotten realms and needs support.

This wouldn't happen in the Forgotten Realms, Ao the over god would stop it. He could stop these gods with a thought. There is already 1 or 2 mods that add Cyric 'the Mad' followers who are after you to kill you. You might want to read Faiths & Avaters, Powers & Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities to get some ideas on other Forgotten Realms gods (missing ones, dead, lost, whatever) that would want to stop the PC. Maybe even a Good god that would want to stop you and if you are playing a Good PC he could be miss guided and in time see the error of his ways (role playing not just hack an slash).

[Kulyok]

There was that mod where you fight the guy who killed Ao. What was it, Planar Sphere?

I say replace that with high-level mercenaries, and you've got a nice series of tactical encounters on your hands(see Solaufein mod). Gods fighting CHARNAME, though? Nope, doesn't sound real.

[Kaeloree]

Ao put out an order that none of the Gods were to interfere with the Bhaalspawn; Cyric basically breaks this rule in ToB... but going against Ao is generally not a great idea.

[Kuugen]

well, the general idea was that while Karnitia herself is unable to interfere ( why, that won't be a fight just a 'god blew you to smitherens on will' ) so she sends her "minions" who are as powerful as lesser gods but shouldn't quality as truly divine beings. Not to mention, why the hell would Karnitia know or care about Ao's command not to interfere.

Also, in terms of raw power, Karnitia is probably just as strong as Ao. While Ao would be stronger by default, Karnitia has accumulated quite the range of powers from other gods. Even 'Almighty' has it's boundaries.

But enough of that theory. I don't have the actual AD&D books so I can't really read up on the gods. replacing this with high-level mercenaries... well, they would have to be quite the legendary mercenary to make this as hard as I wanted it to be. And such legendary mercenaries are more than often not evil. if they are, they usually die in the course of a few years.

Well, how about this then? Cut the whole 'from another dimension' thing and replace this with "one of Ao's creations was banished" and adjust to that.

The whole thing about Karnitia only needs to be... slightly adjusted. that she won't show up in the books just means that even the gods are forbidden to speak of her ( or that it happened SO long ago that none of the current gods know anymore )

I edited the first post accordingly to this. I don't know too much about the forgotten realms so it's trial and error here.

[GeN1e]

Sorry if I have missed it, but what kind of gameplay is being proposed? Series of fights with bunches of tough mobs? Prolonged intrigue throughout the game? New dungeon crawls? A mix of them all?

Slaughtering one bunch after another doesn't feel much inspiring, as even vanilla BG2 was already full of that. Intrigues are generally appealing, particularily because there aren't that many out there. Dungeon crawls can be very nice too.

The ideal, in my opinion is to set up the semi-detective plot, eventually discover a dungeon and upon exiting it run into a bunch. It wouldn't stand out from the rest of game either.

*Triple 60th level*
*10000 HP*
*+12 Hackmaster*
etc.

Skip it. Seriously. Times when it was a fashion to impress with senseless big digits are long in the past. Unless that's there specifically to avoid the infamous 'screw-the-rail-and-i-kills-ya-with-a-script' quest design. Kills ya alright anyway, but in a 'fair' fight

Ao put out an order that none of the Gods were to interfere with the Bhaalspawn; Cyric basically breaks this rule in ToB... but going against Ao is generally not a great idea.

Ao thinks too much of himself. Would be nice if they kill him slowly in 5th Edition.

Edited by GeN1e, 15 July 2009 - 12:02 PM.

[Kuugen]

The +12 hackmaster reminded me of the killsw01 and I had to laugh.

the general idea of gameplay was "bunch of mobs that grows with you and comes back multiple times, always one step ahead of you"
well, i do see now how that could be boring for most people, but setting up a dungeon is quite out of my reach. Ideal, to me, would be this scenario:

The whole story stands, including the +12 hackmaster. but that is only IN the tomb Karnitia was sealed. So you go in, get captured, are stripped off all your items and are imprisoned deep down in Asy' Rem ( random name here )
Now, how do you get out, past those invincible monsters without any equip? diplomacy. They hate the world but they hate each other just as much. They fault each other for everything. So you got to get ONE of them to help you out in exchange for the promise that you will kill the others when you get the chance ( which is what the scenario should be working towards )
outside, they're under Ao's influence and his ban will strip away their immortal powers, making them just mortals. powerful mortals, but mortals. You see them fighting each other ( and that should be quite the sight ) and you're free to go about and leave or just interfere and kill them yourself if you dare to try. then you COULD go and reach the lowest level where their spirits are sealed and fight them all again ( and this time, you actually not the imba version but a slightly more powerful version of outside ) to get some fragments of their items.

the whole thing is of course waaaaay out of my league ( scripting, setting up areas [well i could steal from WK] and well... especially the scripts and areas. everything else would be just a matter of patience )

But the idea of getting villains to fight each other, the absolute force to not use violence or cheese to escape and then going back to fight them knowing very well you're most likely running into very angry spirits is not too bad i guess. just not doable for me.

[Azkyroth]

well, the general idea was that while Karnitia herself is unable to interfere ( why, that won't be a fight just a 'god blew you to smitherens on will' ) so she sends her "minions" who are as powerful as lesser gods but shouldn't quality as truly divine beings. Not to mention, why the hell would Karnitia know or care about Ao's command not to interfere.

Because Ao's role in the story of the Forgotten Realms, basically, seems to be "fighting fire with fire" as far as characters becoming Munchkins, and he's pretty much omnipotent as far as anyone in the FR can tell.

PS: Scripts aren't that difficult. Areas are a bitch.

PSS: If you seriously want to do something like this, I suggest the Elder Evils sourcebook for ideas on how to incorporate a plot like this into the FR setting. The link should take you to the Amazon page; there are probably other sources worth checking too.

Edited by Azkyroth, 15 July 2009 - 05:14 PM.

[Kuugen]

Well, doing it alone is anyway a bit too time consuming. I have a job too and while I have quite a bit free-time to put into things like this, I really don't have the patience to work half a year on such a thing.

I'm maybe a bit too stuck up with the karnitia thing, so I guess any god that seems logic is fine. should be a "offically" dead god though. I should probably learn to do something else than dialogue, items, creatures and the sort before looking to do an actual mod. ( no, NPC's mods are not something I want to do. They'd end up broken anyway. )

On second thought, maybe I should just scrap the idea altogether. I do seem to look like the occasional powergamer moron making a suggestion that sucks. And seriously, I never wanted to be that one D:

Edited by Kuugen, 15 July 2009 - 06:31 PM.

[Azkyroth]

I have a job too and while I have quite a bit free-time to put into things like this, I really don't have the patience to work half a year on such a thing.

Half a year would be excessively optimistic for a substantial mod. I conceived of Arkalian in November 2005 and she's still well over a year away from completion, my life having flirted with the rails but repeatedly run off over the intervening time.

[Kuugen]

well, you have to consider that I have roughly 10-12 hours a day to work on a mod. five to six days a week. ( so roughly 50-60 hours a week to spent on it )
I do daresay thats a bit more than most of the modders here.

[Luridel]

I do seem to look like the occasional powergamer moron making a suggestion that sucks. And seriously, I never wanted to be that one D:

I suppose here's how I see it: I'm all for challenges, presuming they fit within the context of the story.

For me, reading your original (non-edited) idea, what immediately came to mind was post-game ascended!Charname having to push and shove their way into their new role as Lord/Lady of Murder - after all, stepping up to become a god(dess) isn't always quite so easy as it seems, and there's the potential for a very challenging fight or two there... but perhaps that's a bit out of the scope of the game. As you've changed your mind and thought about this so more, though- dead gods are always interesting, and the FR does have a couple of those lying around (see: Amaunator, for example).