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Haer'Dalis Romance


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#1 Aeryn

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 10:57 AM

This is all Orthodoxia's fault. :P

Since my current project is in its final stages, my mind has been roving around for a new idea to fixate on. I was not planning to do more modding, at least not right away, but apparently it's addictive. And this isn't a promise to complete this because God only knows what RL has in store for me over the next few months, but it's definitely something I'd like to write.

Haer'Dalis is one of my favorite NPCs, and I wanted to romance him since my first vanilla SoA playthrough. I know there is at least one project that died a few years ago, and though I've poked around on their old threads, I'm going to take this my own direction if I do write it. I did some very rough brainstorming, so here it is, though it's far from complete. Warning for longness. ^_^ What I'm looking for is feedback, suggestions, criticism, anything.

I don?t believe a race requirement would be necessary, since I don?t see HD as particularly picky about race. There will also not be any alignment restrictions, though I?m thinking some tension with a lawful PC might be in order. I do intend to keep this for females only. There will be a moderate CHA (~13+?) requirement, and a low INT (11+?) requirement ? I see those two attributes as the only that would matter as far as HD?s attraction to the PC.

The romance begins with a simple inquiry into the PC?s origins. It is likely that HD already has a pretty good idea of her Bhaalspawn heritage, as he never asks about it in the vanilla game, unlike most of the other new companions. This first talk is a means to determine the PC?s openness/trust toward him. The PC can be honest, can tell him she doesn?t trust him yet, or can tell him off completely. If she is honest, the next set of LTs will begin; if she says she doesn?t trust him, she will be able to pick the dialog up at any time via PID, but no new LTs will appear until she expresses some trust in him; telling him off shows a lack of interest and will end any possible chance for future romance.

The next LT is essentially HD saying, ?Let me tell your story, my raven!? He expresses deep curiosity about her past, her present, and where the future is leading her, and begs permission to learn more about her. She is a herald of entropy and chaos, no matter what her alignment, and he is openly interested in her. If asked, however, he insists that his interest is entirely professional, and he only wishes to learn her story that he might share it with the world one day. Again, trust leads to more LTs, lack of trust will pause the romance, and rudeness ends the romance.

The next several LTs are related to the PC?s past, BG1 essentially. Through the course of the talks, the PC can turn the tables on HD and ask him personal questions as well, though he will probably give brief/evasive answers at first. PID talks allow the PC to delve more deeply into his past, but her trust (or lack thereof) toward him will effect his answers/willingness to answer.

One of the things that really struck me about HD when I first played SoA was his treatment of Yoshimo. No matter how evil or depraved the other NPCs are, HD is teasing, taunting, playful, mocking, but never openly hostile or rude to any of them ? aside from Yoshimo. His distaste for the rogue is tangible. This to me shows a side of HD that is deeply buried ? an honestly protective streak. Despite his love of entropy and decay, it angers him to trade words with the wolf in sheep's clothing. I intend to play off of that a bit. If Yoshi is in the party, there will be extra talks (nothing that spoils or reveals anything), and there will be extra talks related to his betrayal as well if he?s in the party at Spellhold.

Hmm, tangent. Anyway, back to the LTs ? after 4-5 talks about the PC?s past with bits of HD?s past mixed in, HD will ask how the PC ended up in Amn. If the PC talks openly about Irenicus and what she suffered at his hands, HD reveals a level of concern that is clearly beyond the ?professional interest? he?s expressed in the PC thus far. The PC can comment on this, pressure him if you will, or can be anything from embarrassed to neutral about it, or tell him to get away from her.

The next few LTs will be a lot of ?come here/go away? on HD?s part. Despite being a Doomguard, despite all the things he?s seen and despite his love of his beliefs, I believe it would be a daunting thing to fall for a Child of Murder. On top of that, she is a mystery to him ? where other people would have died, failed, fallen, decayed to make way for the new, she is constantly growing and surviving where she should not. He admires her, deeply, but is also intimidated on some level by her. Eventually all the tension will culminate in a decision, and I like the idea of more than one ?type? of romance ? a PC pressuring him/flirting with him/coaxing him into a relationship vs a PC who is shy/reluctant/wants to be pursued, something like that. Despite any early reluctance, however, once HD is committed, he is committed.

I do not want to write a conflict with Aerie. My opinion is that if HD is fixated on the PC, he is not going to give her a second glance. Perhaps he might do some flirting to get a reaction from the PC (though I think he would do that with any female NPC in the party, not just Aerie), but the real romance will be disabled if I have my way because I just don?t see him as being the type to fixate on two women at once.

Okay, that's all of my thoughts for the moment. This is obviously in the outline stages, but since we're talking about a NPC that's already established as a character, I think it's important to get player feedback before I get too committed to any one idea. :)

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#2 Orthodoxia

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 11:13 AM

I'll take the on the full blame :whistling: I have a few questions,

How many lovetalks would you roughly say there would be in this romance?

My meager knowledge aside, I thought that HD was meant to be originally one more option for the Female PC but was dropped due to time restraints. Many of his original quest items are still in game should you choose to use them :)

Haer'Dalis being committed: I would ask what part of his personality would make him stay committed to the PC when he dropped Aerie so easily?

As for Yoshimo, I was always under impression, after that 'chains' talk that Haer'Dalis knew about the geas or was aware that some magic was commanding him :huh:

Not very helpful but I am curious ;)

Edited by Orthodoxia, 08 July 2009 - 11:14 AM.

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#3 xdeathplanetx

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 11:18 AM

your's seams goods ideas HD is really a bizzarre NPC whare u can show your fantasies. I agree with you the race should be not a problem (infact he is from an other material plane) and also a INT restriction (not too higth) is needed becouse her must be able to answer to his stange question. moods and sometimes understain the hidden meaning. if the mod will contain conflict wiht other males i think that wiht some NPC (anomen,edwin) he could show his agressive side (as i see him also if he try to hide his personality behinde is jokes someways is agressive and very strong)

#4 Aeryn

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 11:26 AM

How many lovetalks would you roughly say there would be in this romance?

I don't know, but many. So far, there are at least 6 for the early stage, so likely as many if not more for the mid stage, probably more for the late stage, and then ToB of course. This is still very, very much in its planning phase.

Haer'Dalis being committed: I would ask what part of his personality would make him stay committed to the PC when he dropped Aerie so easily?

I don't really think of him dropping her easily - more like letting her go when she demanded it. I think his attitude toward the PC would be the same if she expresses the desire to part ways with him. He, however, is not going to end things no matter how much they argue/fight/disagree because he loves the chaos. On the same note, he would also not get bored with a PC who agrees with him because it's probably pretty rare for him to find someone on the Prime who sees things his way.

As for Yoshimo, I was always under impression, after that 'chains' talk that Haer'Dalis knew about the geas or was aware that some magic was commanding him :huh:

Yes, exactly. And HD treats him like an enemy, and yet says nothing to the PC about what he knows of Yoshimo. I can imagine the fur that would fly if he admitted post-soul theft that he knew the whole time that Yoshi was going to betray them... :shifty:

Edited by Aeryn, 08 July 2009 - 11:27 AM.

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#5 Orthodoxia

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 11:35 AM

I don't really think of him dropping her easily - more like letting her go when she demanded it. I think his attitude toward the PC would be the same if she expresses the desire to part ways with him. He, however, is not going to end things no matter how much they argue/fight/disagree because he loves the chaos. On the same note, he would also not get bored with a PC who agrees with him because it's probably pretty rare for him to find someone on the Prime who sees things his way.

I thought she was quite upset by it at first but had dropped the matter quite quickly. But what caught my interest: you would allow us to argue/fight/disagree and he wouldn't walk away with his nose in the air? Is that even possible in a romance :D

As for Yoshimo, I was always under impression, after that 'chains' talk that Haer'Dalis knew about the geas or was aware that some magic was commanding him :huh:

Yes, exactly. And HD treats him like an enemy, and yet says nothing to the PC about what he knows of Yoshimo. I can imagine the fur that would fly if he admitted post-soul theft that he knew the whole time that Yoshi was going to betray them... :shifty:

I'd imagine she'd be quite upset, quite upset indeed. He'd really need to kiss it and make it all better :shifty:

Edited by Orthodoxia, 08 July 2009 - 11:36 AM.

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#6 Aeryn

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 12:12 PM

I definitely want to be able to fight with him. He is naturally drawn to conflict, and openly creates it among the other NPCs, so I have to assume he'd do the same with CHARNAME. Especially someone like a LG paladin would make for quite the odd couple and the bickering that is sure to ensue would be most interesting. Still, everyone has limits, and I would think a guy with a big ego like HD wouldn't put up with a lot of deeply personal insults - and yet, I also see him as willing to forgive and forget in most instances, if the PC is persuasive enough. ;)

I do plan a conflict with Anomen, but I don't necessarily think it's going to be what most people describe as a "conflict"...I'll leave it at that for now.

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Haer'Dalis Friendship

 


#7 darlarosa

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 12:15 PM

The way I always pictured n argueent between HD and PC would be less mope and yelling more tension and a bit of "I'm not standing down, but I like the fight in you"

does it make sense?
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#8 yarpen

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 12:28 PM

If it's going to fit to the rest of in-game romance - then I'm saying "Yay!". :)

#9 Meira

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 12:44 PM

I'll play this mod!

Haer'Dalis is one of my favourite NPCs too. I my first game of BG I was so disappointed when he didn't care for my PC but wooed Aerie instead. I would be so great to have a Haer'Dalis romance to see the light of day, even though you seem to view him somewhat differently than I.

The intelligence requirement seems okay, but I would drop the min charisma requirement (or even get wild and set a max charisma requirement). To me HD seem like a type that needs to shine. A PC with very high charisma might outshine him and that would create negative tension in their relationship. Maybe that's why in the original game he doesn't seem interested in the PC but rather singles out the little sorry Aerie. When Aerie gets stronger, their relationship ends. Of course, for the purposes of the romance he needs to endure to some extend that the PC, a child of murder, outdoes him by far.

I'm also not sure of how much of a one woman's guy he is. But since for a romance that doesn't end with him kicked out of the party of axe in his face he kind of has to be, I'm not going to argue over that. But I would find it a little strange if he in the end of ToB would end up with home and heart, married to PC with a bunch of kids.

I like the idea of more than one ?type? of romance ? a PC pressuring him/flirting with him/coaxing him into a relationship vs a PC who is shy/reluctant/wants to be pursued, something like that.


I like this idea a lot. I feel that Haer is quite adept in modifying his behaviour to serve best with his goals with the person he's dealing with. Aerie is attracted to someone who can encourage teach and protect her and that exactly what she's served. Raelis is obviously quite taken with him too, but isn't mad when he leaves. In my mod he treats Amber quite differently from Aerie and successfully manages to push the buttons of his fellow tiefling.

Edited by Meira, 08 July 2009 - 12:46 PM.

Ihmeellinen meri

Kummalliset kalat liukuvat syvyydessä,
tuntemattomat kukat loistavat rannalla;
olen nähnyt punaista ja keltaista ja kaikki toiset värit -
mutta ihana meri on vaarallista nähdä,
se herättää tulevien seikkailujen janon:
mitä on tapahtunut sadussa, on tapahtuva minullekin.

- Edith Södergran


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#10 Aeryn

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 01:30 PM

The intelligence requirement seems okay, but I would drop the min charisma requirement (or even get wild and set a max charisma requirement). To me HD seem like a type that needs to shine. A PC with very high charisma might outshine him and that would create negative tension in their relationship.

Good point. The reason I was thinking CHA was because if I'm not going to restrict races, there has to be something to make him desire a half-orc, but actually INT would cover that for him I think. He's much more likely to be stimulated by the PC's ability to converse and hold a coherent thought.

I'm also not sure of how much of a one woman's guy he is. But since for a romance that doesn't end with him kicked out of the party of axe in his face he kind of has to be, I'm not going to argue over that. But I would find it a little strange if he in the end of ToB would end up with home and heart, married to PC with a bunch of kids.

I think of him as much less of a one woman man and more of a single minded man, if that makes any sense. Once he's got something in his sights, something he wants, a lover, a new idea, a song, whatever, I can see him being too enthralled with "it" to be distracted by something/someone else. So, while I could see him bouncing easily from one romance to another after it is over, I can't see him having a wandering eye, at least not in a serious way.

And you're right about post-ToB. The epilogues are one thing I'm still mulling over because "happily ever after" doesn't work for me. A PC who ascends is one thing, but one that stays with him...all I can say for sure is that if they aren't like him, having a love for travel and exploration, I just don't see how it could work out. <_<

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Completed Works:

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Haer'Dalis Romance

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Romantic Encounters

 

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Haer'Dalis Friendship

 


#11 darlarosa

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 03:50 PM

And you're right about post-ToB. The epilogues are one thing I'm still mulling over because "happily ever after" doesn't work for me. A PC who ascends is one thing, but one that stays with him...all I can say for sure is that if they aren't like him, having a love for travel and exploration, I just don't see how it could work out. <_<


Well maybe you could have the PC's dalogue choices affect the epilogue. I mean like if the PC indicates to him she is a settle down kind of girl, maybe the epilogue could basically be like the two tried to work it out but Haer'Dalis being himself, soon left her but he was drawn to her again and came back. I mean their relationship being sort of like a dog who wanders away from his master but always comes back.

Then there is always the idea of the two traveling together for the rest of their lives maybe even forming their own theatre troupe or some sort in their travels.
We could argue all day about whether or not I'm a reprehensible human being...Posted Image

"Feeling unknown
And you're all alone
Flesh and bone
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Lift up the receiver
Ill make you a believer"

- Depeche Mode

Posted Image ------Posted Image ]------Posted Image------Posted Image----------Posted Image---------Posted Image----Posted Image------Posted Image-------Posted Image-----Posted Image-----Posted Image-----Posted Image------Posted Image------Posted Image--------Posted Image-------------Posted Image-------------------- click my dragon if you luv meh!

#12 Aeryn

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 04:17 PM

Well maybe you could have the PC's dalogue choices affect the epilogue. I mean like if the PC indicates to him she is a settle down kind of girl, maybe the epilogue could basically be like the two tried to work it out but Haer'Dalis being himself, soon left her but he was drawn to her again and came back. I mean their relationship being sort of like a dog who wanders away from his master but always comes back.

Then there is always the idea of the two traveling together for the rest of their lives maybe even forming their own theatre troupe or some sort in their travels.

To be honest, one of the biggest draws to write this mod is the variety that it could possess. While the LG, up-with-life, down-with-decay people might care about him and want it to work, could it ever really? And would he ever get bored with an overly agreeable, go with the flow type of girl? Or heck, could he find his CN bard soul mate inside this crazy Bhaalspawn? I like the idea of something challenging to write and this could certainly be that and more. :P

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Haer'Dalis Friendship

 


#13 darlarosa

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 05:01 PM

Well maybe you could have the PC's dalogue choices affect the epilogue. I mean like if the PC indicates to him she is a settle down kind of girl, maybe the epilogue could basically be like the two tried to work it out but Haer'Dalis being himself, soon left her but he was drawn to her again and came back. I mean their relationship being sort of like a dog who wanders away from his master but always comes back.

Then there is always the idea of the two traveling together for the rest of their lives maybe even forming their own theatre troupe or some sort in their travels.

To be honest, one of the biggest draws to write this mod is the variety that it could possess. While the LG, up-with-life, down-with-decay people might care about him and want it to work, could it ever really? And would he ever get bored with an overly agreeable, go with the flow type of girl? Or heck, could he find his CN bard soul mate inside this crazy Bhaalspawn? I like the idea of something challenging to write and this could certainly be that and more. :P

I understand what you mean, as he is one of the trickiest characters to write for.

Whenever I think of the type of PC who could be with him in anyway I go with Divi, a neutral Bard with dark humor. For some reason I always picture him with any bard type I always think the two would travel together, have their spats, occasional other lovers but would always want each other. It's just he is the type of person who could probably never give the PC what she wants unless she wants what he wants, and that tends to lead to them being apart. The question is if they EVER are able to be together for more than a few weeks, personally I think the answer is no

Maybe he should have a bitter sweet ending like Viconia
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"Feeling unknown
And you're all alone
Flesh and bone
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Lift up the receiver
Ill make you a believer"

- Depeche Mode

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#14 Kulyok

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 09:17 PM

I don't see a problem with the epilogue, myself. First, it's exactly this type of romance that doesn't make you feel guilty when you ascend("Hakuna Matata, baby!"). And second(and I love this option, so chaotic it is), PC could always kill him.

#15 Azkyroth

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 09:41 PM

As for Yoshimo, I was always under impression, after that 'chains' talk that Haer'Dalis knew about the geas or was aware that some magic was commanding him :huh:

Yes, exactly. And HD treats him like an enemy, and yet says nothing to the PC about what he knows of Yoshimo. I can imagine the fur that would fly if he admitted post-soul theft that he knew the whole time that Yoshi was going to betray them... :shifty:


I for one would be interested in seeing some elaboration on how he knew and what exactly.

"Tyranny is a quiet thing at first, a prim and proper lady pursing her lips and shaking her head disapprovingly, asking, well what were you doing (wearing that dress, walking home at that hour, expressing those inappropriate thoughts) anyway? It's subtle and insidious, disguised as reasonable precautions which become more and more oppressive over time, until our lives are defined by the things we must avoid. She's easy enough to agree with, after all, she's only trying to help -- and yet she's one of the most dangerous influences we face, because if she prevails, it puts the raping, robbing, axe-wielding madmen of the world in complete control. Eventually they'll barely need to wield a thing, all they'll have to do is leer menacingly and we fall all over ourselves trying to placate them." -godlizard


#16 Meira

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 12:13 AM

I'll be very interested to see how you going to elaborate his backstory. :) I liked a lot of JPS' ideas at G3, one being Haer's connections to the Society of Sensation. He also planned to re-introduce the quests the game desiners had cut from the original game. It's a pity that he didn't finnish his efforts.

As said I relly hope you do finnish yours.
Ihmeellinen meri

Kummalliset kalat liukuvat syvyydessä,
tuntemattomat kukat loistavat rannalla;
olen nähnyt punaista ja keltaista ja kaikki toiset värit -
mutta ihana meri on vaarallista nähdä,
se herättää tulevien seikkailujen janon:
mitä on tapahtunut sadussa, on tapahtuva minullekin.

- Edith Södergran


Amber - The BG2 NPC Mod Project Now released!
Amber's discussion forum at Gibberlings 3

#17 Meira

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 12:15 AM

And second(and I love this option, so chaotic it is), PC could always kill him.


And grant him the death he always longed for? Interesting. :)


EDIT: Arg, sorry about the double post. :(

Edited by Meira, 09 July 2009 - 12:16 AM.

Ihmeellinen meri

Kummalliset kalat liukuvat syvyydessä,
tuntemattomat kukat loistavat rannalla;
olen nähnyt punaista ja keltaista ja kaikki toiset värit -
mutta ihana meri on vaarallista nähdä,
se herättää tulevien seikkailujen janon:
mitä on tapahtunut sadussa, on tapahtuva minullekin.

- Edith Södergran


Amber - The BG2 NPC Mod Project Now released!
Amber's discussion forum at Gibberlings 3

#18 Kulyok

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 12:50 AM

And second(and I love this option, so chaotic it is), PC could always kill him.


And grant him the death he always longed for? Interesting. :)


Exactly! See, everyone's happy. :) A solution after my own heart.


Seriously, I've seen what Aeryn is capable of, and I'm sure it's going to be interesting. Especially with such a character as Haer'Dalis. I'll be frank: I'd like him as a friend/partner, too, so if it's possible to play a game of intrigue behind Anomen's(Kivan's/Xan's/Angelo's/Edwin's/Kelsey's) back, it'd be great. Or a relationship with PC saying "No!" every time, and Haer pursuing her - until the end of ToB. :)



P.S. Aeryn, if you're reading this: I'm not sure we'll have the next version of RE soon(no new components, no translations), so I recommend adding this into your Sarevok's script for Sarevok romance before it's released:

IF
GlobalGT("SarevokRomanceActive","GLOBAL",0) // your Sarevok Romance is active (perhaps a prefix is needed here?) - or another variable may be used
Global("SarevokREVariableTurnoff","GLOBAL",0)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
SetGlobal("RE_Sarevok","GLOBAL",3) // Sarevok RE encounter never triggers
SetGlobal("SarevokREVariableTurnoff","GLOBAL",1) // this block never loops
END

#19 xdeathplanetx

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 04:54 AM

the end wiht HD got killed seam fine.. he could alway get cought by who kidnapped him in the five flaggon so et least the Charname maybe has only got to revenge him in a perfect style of 'the god of murder' ehehe

#20 Kaeloree

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 05:07 AM

P.S. Aeryn, if you're reading this: I'm not sure we'll have the next version of RE soon(no new components, no translations), so I recommend adding this into your Sarevok's script for Sarevok romance before it's released:

IF
GlobalGT("SarevokRomanceActive","GLOBAL",0) // your Sarevok Romance is active (perhaps a prefix is needed here?) - or another variable may be used
Global("SarevokREVariableTurnoff","GLOBAL",0)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
SetGlobal("RE_Sarevok","GLOBAL",3) // Sarevok RE encounter never triggers
SetGlobal("SarevokREVariableTurnoff","GLOBAL",1) // this block never loops
END

Thanks, Kulyok, I'll add that into the next beta. :cheers: Much appreciated!