52 replies to this topic

[Meira]

I'd make the talks as flexible as possible. If you make Yoshi's presence a requirement you easily wend up with a situation when the talks have to also be progressed to certain point before leaving for Spellhold. People play very differently, some spend a lot of time in the early chapters and others rush into get Imoen.

Overall if you have talks that are tied to certain game events, I'd separate them from the main talk track and code their own triggers for them.

[xdeathplanetx]

i agree wiht Meira for example spellhold is the last place i go but if is required to go somewhere to continues the dialogues at last it has to be write in the 'readme' file

[Aeryn]

I believe I've thought up a way to cover this base with or without Yoshi's presence, so it's a moot point now.

The more work and thought I put into this project, the less I see the chance for a "happily ever after" ending. Unless I deeply alter his character, which I'm not willing to do, Haer'Dalis is not a long-haul kind of man any way you slice him. That doesn't mean I don't want to write a romance for him...but it's not necessarily going to be all that romantic for most people. And I'm still pondering other project ideas bouncing round and round in my head, so I'm not sure what I'll end up focusing on.

[Meira]

I believe I've thought up a way to cover this base with or without Yoshi's presence, so it's a moot point now.

The more work and thought I put into this project, the less I see the chance for a "happily ever after" ending. Unless I deeply alter his character, which I'm not willing to do, Haer'Dalis is not a long-haul kind of man any way you slice him. That doesn't mean I don't want to write a romance for him...but it's not necessarily going to be all that romantic for most people. And I'm still pondering other project ideas bouncing round and round in my head, so I'm not sure what I'll end up focusing on.

Sounds good to me. Since it's only natural that NPCs thoughts on love and relationships would vary a great deal, it would make no sense to make a cookie cutter romances for everyone. Yay for different approaches!

[xdeathplanetx]

better wiht a not so happy ending... well i dicide always to become an evil god so... for me no prob!

[xdeathplanetx]

better wiht a not so happy ending... well i dicide always to become an evil god so... for me no prob!

[Aeryn]

Picking through some dialogs I either forgot about or never happened to see before, I found a few interesting things (well, interesting to me at least). And a lot of inconsistencies. I understand how big the game is and it's easy for things to fall through the cracks and such, but I'm an bit on the ultra-organized end of the spectrum, so I want to get some things straightened out. (I don't think I have any mods installed that would have changed these, so they should all be vanilla game dialog.)

Above all, I am a tiefling: I am a half-elf and while my father was of the fair folk, my mother was no human.

So he's actually a fey'ri? I wonder if he was simply making this up on the fly (he is an actor).

In Sigil, only one can best me and she is my half-sister.

I wonder which side the sister is from...probably the mother's side? I plan to make use of this half-sister.

I have survived the Outer Planes and a year of service in the retinue of a Baalor.

This is not so much a problem as it is just plain interesting, because he continues on...

He had no name, or at least none he chose to give... He was just another Baalor in the Blood War, and I marched endlessly in his retinue through the Quasielemental Plane of Dust...I sang burlesque songs about the parentage of his enemies and so he let me live. It was that simple and that complex... I was his favorite and he, perhaps, was mine.

This feels to me like he starts out somewhat straightforward, then drives it straight into fiction. If he was a slave in the Blood War, whatever he suffered, he likely won't want to be honest about. Sort of an interesting thing to consider if I develop a romance arc where he might be willing to talk about what really happened.

I wield two blades, Decay and Destiny, and in my hands the two are as one. Care ye for a poet and a warrior-bard?

Were his blades renamed? Or am I just stupid? This one confused me.

Aye, I was a Doomguard once and perhaps I am one still. Though I have left the Planes behind me, 'tis true they have not left me.

This one I also found interesting because it shows (to me at least) a tiny sliver of remorse or doubt perhaps. Of course it's possible he's just playing it up for dramatic reasons, but the way this is phrased makes me wonder if he feels somewhat disjointed being on the Prime. He's good at making it seem like he feels at home anywhere, but realistically I'd imagine he must feel very isolated sometimes.

The race inconsistency is the one that irks me because I'm anal about such things, but I suppose that could easily be covered by saying he was lying. Feedback/opinions are welcome. Maybe I'm making too much of such a little thing, but oh well.

Another random thing I've been stewing over is his age - his voice and maturity give me the impression that he's older than he appears. Plus, planetouched races age more slowly. Not a big thing, but I like details.

[Kulyok]

From his entry dialogue and something else, it looks like this Baalor option and Haer being a slave(and admiring his master) is worth exploring indeed. When I was considering a full romance, I thought I'd make use of it.

(But - it may be just me, but meeting and talking to sisters/half-sisters/female friends/daughters/mothers/aunts/ex-flames is something I steer clear of - when I see it in romances, my scores immediately go down. The only exception is Moira, because we never actually meet her, and afterwards she's dead. At least Raelis is gone. It's so horrid when my PC is forced to meet women she doesn't like - and these women are dead connected to her romance interest. Guys are better. )

[critto]

Were his blades renamed? Or am I just stupid? laugh.gif This one confused me.

Well, the current names of his blades are Chaos and Entropy. I think he just call them the way you described earlier, because it is kind of synonymic. Chaos and Decay can't be one without another, and Entropy is the tool of Destiny which is the decay of all multiverse.
Of course, may be I'm wrong and game designers just renamed Haer'Dalis's blades :) But I have found no evidence of that during my research. After all, these lines are from his joining dialogue, so I figure it's just his way of naming his own blades.

This one I also found interesting because it shows (to me at least) a tiny sliver of remorse or doubt perhaps. Of course it's possible he's just playing it up for dramatic reasons, but the way this is phrased makes me wonder if he feels somewhat disjointed being on the Prime. He's good at making it seem like he feels at home anywhere, but realistically I'd imagine he must feel very isolated sometimes.

I don't think he feels remorseful or doubts himself, at least about his Doomguard beliefs. The break-up with Aerie in the ToB part of the game demonstrates that quite clearly. In fact, his philosophy is the only thing that allows us to catch a glimpse of his true feelings and emotions. I don't think he feels homesick, it's not in his nature. Though indeed sometimes he dreams about Sigil, but he can't stay in one place long enough, that's not who he is. He goes where the Entropy takes him.

The race inconsistency is the one that irks me because I'm anal about such things, but I suppose that could easily be covered by saying he was lying. Feedback/opinions are welcome. Maybe I'm making too much of such a little thing, but oh well.

Why is it inconsistent? Is it not that fey'ri are the one of the tiefling "flavors"? I mean, Aerie is an elf, her character sheet doesn't say that she is an Avariel. Instead her true heritage is being used extensively to create and develop her character via dialogs.

PS: I have some more information, research and ideas about tieflings and the past of Haer'Dalis, since I've been working for some time on a little adventure of my own which includes HD as one of the main characters. If you're interested, I can tell you about it via PM :)

[Aeryn]

From his entry dialogue and something else, it looks like this Baalor option and Haer being a slave(and admiring his master) is worth exploring indeed. When I was considering a full romance, I thought I'd make use of it.

(But - it may be just me, but meeting and talking to sisters/half-sisters/female friends/daughters/mothers/aunts/ex-flames is something I steer clear of - when I see it in romances, my scores immediately go down. The only exception is Moira, because we never actually meet her, and afterwards she's dead. At least Raelis is gone. It's so horrid when my PC is forced to meet women she doesn't like - and these women are dead connected to her romance interest. Guys are better. )

Oh, I meant use this sister to feature in a certain scene in ToB. No, definitely no sharing of his attentions. I do hate that as well. She seems to be the only person from his past that he mentions with something other than indifference, so she makes for a convenient wraith-scene fixture. Of course, that's jumping waaaay ahead of the gun at this present time, but ah well.

I don't think he feels remorseful or doubts himself, at least about his Doomguard beliefs. The break-up with Aerie in the ToB part of the game demonstrates that quite clearly. In fact, his philosophy is the only thing that allows us to catch a glimpse of his true feelings and emotions. I don't think he feels homesick, it's not in his nature. Though indeed sometimes he dreams about Sigil, but he can't stay in one place long enough, that's not who he is. He goes where the Entropy takes him.

That wasn't really what I meant - definitely not doubts about his beliefs or philosophy, but more of an isolation. All mortals desire connections, and he is very different from everyone else the PC meets on the Prime, in appearance and belief. It has not much to do with homesickness or desire to live in one place for a period of time, but rather a desire for those connections, even if they are brief and changing. I'm not talking about a blatant, weepy, pinning melancholy or anything - just a subtle thing that underlines his occasional statements. And I'm not saying it's even something he'd ever admit to, but it's certainly something a PC could poke at.

Why is it inconsistent? Is it not that fey'ri are the one of the tiefling "flavors"? I mean, Aerie is an elf, her character sheet doesn't say that she is an Avariel. Instead her true heritage is being used extensively to create and develop her character via dialogs.

Yes, but Aerie refers to herself as an Avariel. As a poet, flinger of flowery prose, and general quick-witted fellow, it strikes me as odd that he would not refer to himself as the more exotic sounding "fey'ri" that he seems to be.

[Meira]

Why is it inconsistent? Is it not that fey'ri are the one of the tiefling "flavors"? I mean, Aerie is an elf, her character sheet doesn't say that she is an Avariel. Instead her true heritage is being used extensively to create and develop her character via dialogs.

Yes, but Aerie refers to herself as an Avariel. As a poet, flinger of flowery prose, and general quick-witted fellow, it strikes me as odd that he would not refer to himself as the more exotic sounding "fey'ri" that he seems to be.

Then again it might be just about not revealing your hand all at once, keeping the audience interested.

With the blades I'd go and guess that he just likes giving things multiple names.

The half sister and slave stories sound interesting, I'd make good use of them both. Then again I don't feel so strongly about past female relations, because they always reveal so much about the character.

Although I'm really thinking ahead here, the Master wraith might be a tricky one for you to write. Since it plays on the guilt and fears of the NPC. (Interestingly Aerie is the only one we don't know for certain that the wraith speaks a truth about. I don't think it's ever confirmed that her mother is really dead.) Haer doesn't strike me as someone who looks back and regrets stuff. And what he's afraid about, well, that I'd like to know. You'll have to prep the Wraith talk well before it occurs, though, so maybe it's not too early to discuss it too.

[Silmarien]

Re: fey'ri - I agree with the poster who said fey'ri are a subset of tiefling. Fade is a fey'ri, in fact, but since I couldn't get that to show up on her character sheet I stuck in tiefling instead.

As for Haer'Dalis not describing himself as a fey'ri, maybe he just thinks Primes have a hard enough time grasping the concept of tieflings, let alone sub-classes of tieflings.

Speaking as someone who has seen at least three Haer'Dalis romance projects mooted and ultimately abandoned - please do finish this mod, for the love of blue-haired tiefling lovers everywhere! I'm looking forward to it - and I can offer some coding help too, in case you need it, since I've got a couple of months of free time coming and continuing work on Fade-TOB has yet to commence.

[Aeryn]

It's definitely my intention to see this mod through. I've only completed a few LTs, but it's a lot more challenging to write than anything I've tried before, and I mean that as a good thing. I like to have the writing very nearly complete before I even think about the coding side (because I have a lovely habit of redirecting my ideas at the last minute), but if I need help when I get to that point, I'll gladly take you up on that offer.

Although I'm really thinking ahead here, the Master wraith might be a tricky one for you to write. Since it plays on the guilt and fears of the NPC. (Interestingly Aerie is the only one we don't know for certain that the wraith speaks a truth about. I don't think it's ever confirmed that her mother is really dead.) Haer doesn't strike me as someone who looks back and regrets stuff. And what he's afraid about, well, that I'd like to know. You'll have to prep the Wraith talk well before it occurs, though, so maybe it's not too early to discuss it too.

I've barely started to think about this so if I start babbling that's normal. Obviously, the whole wraith scene isn't about reality - it's about the specific NPC's fears. HD left Sigil on bad terms with some pretty scary folks who were willing to do anything to catch Raelis' theater troupe. I have to assume that this would include interrogating any relatives left behind. Although I agree about HD's lack of regrets, and I think that death and the death of those he loves has a minimal effect on him, I think perhaps prolonged torture due to his choices might be a little different. And, if I play up an angle that perhaps this sister and he didn't always see eye-to-eye (in other words, she was not too thrilled at his Doomguard beliefs), yet he still seemed to be close to her, there might be some way for her to throw it in his face. Or, just as easily, she could be a Doomguard as well but having suffered horribly and died, she could tell him that all their beliefs are nonsense. Just because he doesn't linger on fears, doubts or regrets doesn't mean he doesn't have them in some capacity. And I focus on this sister because she is the only person I can think of whom he openly praises by saying she is better at something than he is. That seems like a massive compliment coming from him. This is all still little more than brainstorming, of course.