25 replies to this topic

[sotona]

Well, I've an idea how to make Athkatla NPCs behave natural, or at least to pretend they have their own lives besides quest giving and item selling. How about this: on the evening, all major NPCs will close their shops/houses and disappear till the morning. I am currently thinking of Adventurer's Mart, Cromwell's Shop and Government Building, but there can be much more. So what do you think? I am not asking anyone to do it, I could make such a mod myself. I am curious, whether somebody will play this mod except me?

[Crazee]

I would play this mod. I wait until morning anyway, because it seems so much more logical to go shopping during the day. I'm not sure how many other people would play it, though. Do you have any other ideas on how to make the NPCs seem more alive and natural? I'd love to hear them, if you do.

[berelinde]

I'd play it.

And while you're at it, you can make folks in the Council of Six building go home when their shift ends, too. Who ever heard of gov't employees staying past quitting time?

[GeN1e]

Not sure if it's really going to be my cup of tea, but sounds good nonetheless. I recall SoS doing similar to Ribald's store, albeit in a pretty ugly form. If major buiding (including most of temples) are to be locked up, it may prove rather dangerous to wander around at night, when criminal elements are sure to pop up at the worst moment possible.

Features I'm thinking about:
1) when trying to burgle, an alarm may trigger and shortly thereafter a patrol will arrive to have a conversation with the party if they're still there
2) more random encounters at night - thugs, vamps, guards, maybe something else, all to make the nocturnal walking in the streets more dangerous and interesting
3) maybe a few minor quests that need to be worked on at the night hours

Now, THAT would instantly find itself residing near the very top of my 'must have' list of mods.

[xdeathplanetx]

Also other games like Oblivion have no merchant in nigth and stores closed i think is a great idea if olso add GEN suggestion

[Deva]

Ooh, I like this. I think it'd really add to the character of the city - make it more immersive, less of a playground revolving around your party.

maybe too much traveling round the city at night could be harmful to the reputation as well? I imagine the locals might get a bit suspicious of a party of adventurers who were seldom seen by day? I definetly second Gen1e's suggestions; I really like the idea of making Athkatla more lethal by night, and I agree with their being more repercussions to random burglary. It's all too easy to randomly nick people's stuff in the vanilla game.

[Lava Del'Vortel]

Maybe without that kind of reputation consequences but something like... more patrols during the night. We would have to proove that we are not burglars or any other kind of criminals. And maybe something based on reputation... If we have less than for example 7 city guards would knew who we are and warn us that they do watch our moves etc.

[AnnabelleRose]

If this is done as a simple "no shopping at night" mod, that would be inconvient at best.

Now, if you go with some of the suggestions, and make a reason such as quests and encounters, then it could be entertaining.

It is unrealistic for the people to live in their shops, always be open, and never sleep, etc...

But without added content, it would just annoy me.

I don't want to have to kill time because when I was traveling across the map, it dumped me in the city at night.

Just my opinion.

Edited to remove Engrish.

Edited by MajorTomSawyer, 21 June 2009 - 02:38 PM.

[Azkyroth]

As much as the real-life analogue of the behavior described annoys me, I doubt I'd play this mod, but it seems worthwhile, particularly if you incorporate other features.

A good idea would be including a few "black market" merchants you could buy from after-hours in the alleys or at the docks, perhaps at higher prices...

[sotona]

I would play this mod. I wait until morning anyway, because it seems so much more logical to go shopping during the day. I'm not sure how many other people would play it, though. Do you have any other ideas on how to make the NPCs seem more alive and natural? I'd love to hear them, if you do.

There are not many options here, if we dont want to deal with terrible amount of scripting. However, I've one more idea: some notable NPC's (not all of them, of course) can be randomly transported to the other places of Athkatla, once or twice in a week, as if they are wandering in the city on their own. In that case, the PC could ask around if someone have any information on their whereabouts. I think it definitely will make them appear more alive:)

Not sure if it's really going to be my cup of tea, but sounds good nonetheless. I recall SoS doing similar to Ribald's store, albeit in a pretty ugly form. If major buiding (including most of temples) are to be locked up, it may prove rather dangerous to wander around at night, when criminal elements are sure to pop up at the worst moment possible.

I think the temples should be open all the time, and besides, some clerics in the Temple district are clearly stating it.

Features I'm thinking about:
1) when trying to burgle, an alarm may trigger and shortly thereafter a patrol will arrive to have a conversation with the party if they're still there

Like it was in BG1.

2) more random encounters at night - thugs, vamps, guards, maybe something else, all to make the nocturnal walking in the streets more dangerous and interesting
3) maybe a few minor quests that need to be worked on at the night hours

Sadly, there is almost nothing to do in Athkatla if you're a thief (or any other character class:)

Now, THAT would instantly find itself residing near the very top of my 'must have' list of mods.

Ooh, I like this. I think it'd really add to the character of the city - make it more immersive, less of a playground revolving around your party.

Yes, yes, this is exactly what I'm talking about!

maybe too much traveling round the city at night could be harmful to the reputation as well? I imagine the locals might get a bit suspicious of a party of adventurers who were seldom seen by day? I definetly second Gen1e's suggestions; I really like the idea of making Athkatla more lethal by night, and I agree with their being more repercussions to random burglary. It's all too easy to randomly nick people's stuff in the vanilla game.

Without question, there should be much more encounters, during the night in particular.

If this is done as a simple "no shopping at night" mod, that would be inconvient at best.

Now, if you go with some of the suggestions, and make a reason such as quests and encounters, then it could be entertaining.

It is unrealistic for the people to live in their shops, always be open, and never sleep, etc...

But without added content, it would just annoy me.

I see your point.

I don't want to have to kill time because when I was traveling across the map, it dumped me in the city at night.

Just my opinion.

Edited to remove Engrish.

Well, if you happened to arrive late at night, then your party should not make haste to the nearest shop, but rather find an inn and have some rest after the long journey. We are talking about the realism here! :-D

Edited by sotona, 23 June 2009 - 10:43 AM.

[vilkacis]

I have merged your last four posts into one.

You can respond to several messages at once by hitting the quote button on each, then add reply, so there is no need to doublepost.

[Shadowhawke]

A good idea would be including a few "black market" merchants you could buy from after-hours in the alleys or at the docks, perhaps at higher prices...

If I do recall, there is already a black market merchant you can buy from at night in Waukeen's Promenade... I think somewhere to the bottom right and up a bit outside the gates itself. The 'realistic' thing there is that he will actually buy stolen goods. I can certainly see adding more of these merchants to more likely areas such as the Docks adding life to Athkatla, especially if they have a few shady quests.

[Ebon]

Did medieval capitals have night life? I'm tempted to say no... The only official open places should be the inns and mage domains... not to forget about elves, who don't sleep! I'm guessing half-elves don't, either.

Really cool would be black market buddies who'll sell you cool stuff for which you'll be hunted the whole game, but at a later time, when you got used to them. Similar to that githyanki blade, which I however gave back.

Edited by Ebon, 23 June 2009 - 06:01 AM.

[Miloch]

Well, I've an idea how to make Athkatla NPCs behave natural, or at least to pretend they have their own lives besides quest giving and item selling. How about this: on the evening, all major NPCs will close their shops/houses and disappear till the morning.

We have implemented this in the Aurora mod (surprised GeN1e didn't mention that). In fact, she actually walks home right into her bedroom and goes to sleep at night (that's how it's supposed to work anyway). To remove the inconvenience factor, she has an assistant who minds her shop at night. He is nocturnal, so he does the reverse and sleeps during the day. They each have unique quests. We have another merchant who doesn't sleep but meditates in a private garden (she will still sell items if roused). It would probably be fairly easy to extend this type of code to other merchants (at least the generic parts of it).

Features I'm thinking about:
1) when trying to burgle, an alarm may trigger and shortly thereafter a patrol will arrive to have a conversation with the party if they're still there

This should happen anyway in BG2, at least if your shouts are working properly. I think Rogue Rebalancing also does something with this, a version of which we've also put in Aurora. Basically, you can try to talk your way out of a theft but if the attempt fails, the guards may show up and your reputation takes a hit. #2 would be doable by editing area interrupts, though you'd probably have to pick out specific creatures for each area. #3 would take work (you'd need to write the quests) but we did it for Aurora.

Did medieval capitals have night life?

Yes, of course. Don't forget the prostitutes in BG1's Beregost that only show up at night...

[sotona]

Well, I've an idea how to make Athkatla NPCs behave natural, or at least to pretend they have their own lives besides quest giving and item selling. How about this: on the evening, all major NPCs will close their shops/houses and disappear till the morning.

We have implemented this in the Aurora mod (surprised GeN1e didn't mention that). In fact, she actually walks home right into her bedroom and goes to sleep at night (that's how it's supposed to work anyway). To remove the inconvenience factor, she has an assistant who minds her shop at night. He is nocturnal, so he does the reverse and sleeps during the day. They each have unique quests. We have another merchant who doesn't sleep but meditates in a private garden (she will still sell items if roused). It would probably be fairly easy to extend this type of code to other merchants (at least the generic parts of it).

Oh. Just to get this straight, will you do it in your Aurora mod, eventually?

This should happen anyway in BG2, at least if your shouts are working properly. I think Rogue Rebalancing also does something with this, a version of which we've also put in Aurora. Basically, you can try to talk your way out of a theft but if the attempt fails, the guards may show up and your reputation takes a hit.

But it does not work in the vanilla game, AFAIK. At least I have never seen it working.

[Miloch]

Oh. Just to get this straight, will you do it in your Aurora mod, eventually?

For all the other merchants besides ours? We weren't planning on it, so if you were, go right ahead .

Would I play such a mod? I don't know, it depends on how it was done. If you're just going to have them vanish at night, either by script or patching their schedule in the area file, it would seem a little unnatural if they just disappeared at a certain time. If you replicated Aurora's behaviour (walking home at night to sleep in her bed) it would be more natural, but also a lot of work for all the merchants. You'd have to find sleeping spots for everyone and maybe add more area interiors, unless they go to sleep right where they are (not very realistic).

Another thought I had was to have them empty out their pockets into a drawer and lock it (possibly trap it also) before they go to bed, so you can't pickpocket them in their sleep, but that would involve a bit of work too.

[Yovaneth]

Let's take one aspect of the sugeestions here and look at it in detail - the Council building. Yes, you can make the inhabitants 'go home' at night but it's going to take a Weidu Ninja to do it because you'll need to modify the .are offsets that control the time of appearance of each .cre. The alternative is to add to the area script to set them all 'offscreen' (into the non-accessible area) and ensure the lightmap is set to all-black at that point to ensure they can't be accidently seen. Some of those non-accessible areas in the lightmaps are multicoloured anyway (you just assume they're all black ! ) so I doubt that adding a true black area will get noticed. Secondly, if they have gone home, the doors should be really locked unpickable (which negates all of the above) and I'm d*mned if I know of an easy way to make doors only useable at certain times.

What did I miss?

-Y-

[sotona]

Let's take one aspect of the sugeestions here and look at it in detail - the Council building. Yes, you can make the inhabitants 'go home' at night but it's going to take a Weidu Ninja to do it because you'll need to modify the .are offsets that control the time of appearance of each .cre.

I do not think it would be wise to add complex "go home" scripts to every notable NPC in the game, not just because it will take terrible amount of time and effort to write down offsets and such, but, more importantly, such detailing looks somewhat redundant to me.

The alternative is to add to the area script to set them all 'offscreen' (into the non-accessible area) and ensure the lightmap is set to all-black at that point to ensure they can't be accidently seen. Some of those non-accessible areas in the lightmaps are multicoloured anyway (you just assume they're all black ! ) so I doubt that adding a true black area will get noticed.

Why not to keep it simple? We could simply make them disappear, transport them to another area, change their animation to "spleeping" (or just make them "play dead") till the morning, and so on.

Secondly, if they have gone home, the doors should be really locked unpickable (which negates all of the above) and I'm d*mned if I know of an easy way to make doors only useable at certain times.

What did I miss?

-Y-

And why we want to lock doors unpickable? I am not following you, sorry

[Icendoan]

Breaking into the Adventure Mart at night sounds quite fun, really.

Icen

[GeN1e]

Let's take one aspect of the sugeestions here and look at it in detail - the Council building. Yes, you can make the inhabitants 'go home' at night but it's going to take a Weidu Ninja to do it because you'll need to modify the .are offsets that control the time of appearance of each .cre.

I do not think it would be wise to add complex "go home" scripts to every notable NPC in the game, not just because it will take terrible amount of time and effort to write down offsets and such, but, more importantly, such detailing looks somewhat redundant to me.

The alternative is to add to the area script to set them all 'offscreen' (into the non-accessible area) and ensure the lightmap is set to all-black at that point to ensure they can't be accidently seen. Some of those non-accessible areas in the lightmaps are multicoloured anyway (you just assume they're all black ! ) so I doubt that adding a true black area will get noticed.

Why not to keep it simple? We could simply make them disappear, transport them to another area, change their animation to "spleeping" (or just make them "play dead") till the morning, and so on.

Well, call me a Weidu ninja that I probably am indeed by now, but it's quite fast to patch .are so that nobody stays inside during the night. No everyone physically possesse a home in BG2, so those who're important enough can picked up and scripted manually.

I'm d*mned if I know of an easy way to make doors only useable at certain times.

Script them. Again, not much ninjutsu is required to write a simple algorithm.