As I mentioned before in the Sounds thread, I consider the player's options during the Trias/Vhailor exchange to be incomplete to the point of broken. There are no responses when redeeming Trias that make any sense. Rather than explain, I'll just show u it.
SPOILERS, of course.
Upon redeeming Trias:
Trias: He opens his mouth for an angry retort... and pauses, reflecting. He bows his head. "You speak convincing words, mortal, and their wisdom pierces me. I shall seek the forgiveness of my fathers, and accept any retribution they choose. Take this, and farewell, mortal. If we meet again, it is my hope that I will be redeemed."
TNO: "Best of luck, Trias. Farewell." (no other option)
Vhailor: "*The deva shall NOT walk free. No matter your vow, JUSTICE must be SERVED.*"
TNO: "Watch." or "Attack the deva." (Both lead to same result, and not fitting at all, IMO. I hate this part.)
Trias: Vhailor strikes him down, shattering the bones of his proud face, bloodying his immaculate form. With his dying strength, Trias says, "Know that you have damned yourself. In killing me, you have shattered the last shield that you have against the horrors that will consume you. The fiend I tricked... he is now free..." His weak chuckle trickles off, and the light vanishes from his eyes.
TNO: "Just die already." (no other option. This after you -had- to say "Best of luck, Trias." BLEAH.)
Now, I propose that, very clearly, there is a missing option in the TNO response that I bolded. I base this on two things. One is - well, the obvious one. You can clearly get to this state along TNO's "good path", you just redeemed Trias, and now suddenly all your response options are basically, blatantly evil. It's totally out of sync. What else do I base it on? This bit, pulled directly from the dialog.tlk. This is the sequence of STRREFS in which the above lines are set up.
@54781 = ~*The deva shall NOT walk free. No matter your vow, JUSTICE must be SERVED.*~ @54782 = ~Watch.~ @54783 = ~~ @54784 = ~Attack the deva, despite your vow.~ @54785 = ~Attack the deva.~
See that empty 54783? It is the only empty STTREF anywhere near that section of the dialog.tlk, and it is precisely where a "good" option should be in this conversation. There are no other empty strrefs for hundreds, possibly thousands of lines before or after this point in the dialog.tlk. This area of the dialog.tlk is -crowded-, and yet there it is, an empty strref precisely where this glaring continuity hole needs to be filled.
think between those two things, it is clear that there was an intent to have another option there that for some reason just never got implemented. And even if there isn't proof of intent, I think there's proof of -necessity-.
So. At this point, I'm hoping people will agree, yes, there's a big unfinished hole in the game right where STRREF 54783 is supposed to be, and it's clear that it's supposed to be a "good" response that isn't totally illogical following the fact that you just redeemed Trias. If you don't agree, if you still think it is as intended despite my arguments, then vote for option 1 in the poll.
The rest of this is for those who agree, that's a hole that needs to be filled as part of the Fixpack, the game simply isn't finished with that hole there.
At this point, I have two options. The total minimal impact way, which is just to have you say "Vhailor, STOP!" or something to that effect, and Vhailor simply ignores you.
The other option is to go for balanced, fun, interesting impact. I mean, we can be minimalist, and can plug the hole with the above dull and boring line, or we can fill the hole with an attempt at the same level of depth and freedom of action that exists in most of the rest of the game. So, instead, it's ~Stop Vhailor.~ At this point, you drop out of dialogue, and Vhailor is dropped from the party and goes hostile (Trias is blue). He focuses on Trias, and you can attack him. Trias at this point is almost dead. I propose that when Vhailor does another 40 hit points of damage, Trias dies (and actually gets to gurgle his unused ""In time, my cause shall be honored." dying voiced line), and then Vhailor turns on you and must be killed. Or, you can kill Vhailor before he does that damage, thereby saving Trias's life. At this point, I add a single line of dialogue wherein Trias, in astonishment at the charity of your act, gives you Celestial Fire before going back to Mount Celestia to confront his father. (This is done so the options are somewhat balanced... the let Vhailor kill Trias option is still the powergamer's choice as you get to keep Vhailor as a party member.
Actually, if we were to go this route, I would also propose fixing the fact that by letting Vhailor kill Trias you can get both the Tattoo of the Redeemer and the Tattoo of the Betrayer, and only allow you to keep the one that makes sense based on these outcomes. Cause it's also pretty messed up that, despite Vhailor killing Trias, him cursing you, and your muttering "Just die already", you can still get the tattoo that says:
This tattoo tells the story of the redemption of Trias the Betrayer, and how you steered him from the path of evil into forgiveness. It reflects your wisdom and your persuasive skills, and carries the blessing of Trias with it.
The description of the tattoo of the betrayer is also kinda incompatible with your attempting to redeem him, when it is Vhailor who really betrays him and you have no real choice about it.
As for the line he says when you've saved him and he gives you the sword, my proposal is:
"You have redeemed me twice this day, mortal. After all I have done, after I tried to end your existence, you slew your own companion in order to allow me the chance to atone for my deeds. I will not waste this opportunity that you have bought for me at such cost to yourself." A look of shame crosses his face. "Your actions have reminded me of what I once knew to be the meaning of goodness and law. You deserve this blade more than I. Perhaps, if my father forgives me, I may someday earn the right to wield another. Farewell, mortal." TNO Response existing line: "Best of luck, Trias. Farewell."
If anyone with better writing skills than me would like to improve on that, please, feel free, I'm open to all suggestions.
Anyways, whatcha all think? Leave the big gaping hole in the dialogue, OR just add a useless "Vhailor, stop!" line, or implement what I have just described here as an attempt to fill the hole with content worthy of the rest of the game?
Again, you all hopefully know by now that I -hate- adding lines to the Fixpack, but in this case I think there's compelling reason to do so. The question is, do we plug holes in the most bare minimum way possible, or do we try to make it an actually fun and balanced option?
Qwinn
Edited by Qwinn, 03 June 2009 - 04:44 PM.
