156 replies to this topic

[Sam.]

Here is the updated information:

(Remove the .txt and open with Internet Explorer)

or



Almost everything is filled in except whether they are used in a mod. Have I gotten any of the animations mixed up?

[Erephine]

Looks fine to me Could you make a version without those that are already in BGII?

I've put together one with the animations which are in IWDII, but not IWD:
 IWDII_Animations.rar   163.96K   203 downloads

it's .rared because it won't let me upload an .odt

Edited by Erephine, 03 August 2009 - 04:20 PM.

[Sam.]

Looks fine to me Could you make a version without those that are already in BGII?

Do you want a list of the creatures that don't exist or the animations that don't exist? For instance, there is an Umber Hulk animation in both games but they are different. Should the list include these or just the fully different creatures, like the Rhinocerous Beetle, that don't exist in BGII?

[Erephine]

Do you want a list of the creatures that don't exist or the animations that don't exist?

The latter.

[Sam.]

Do you want a list of the creatures that don't exist or the animations that don't exist?

The latter.

Look about right?

[Miloch]

Does it include things like these?

It does not, because, although I was aware of those animations at the time, I wasn't aware of any mods that used them, therefore they were not assigned to any slots. The point of that spreadsheet was to resolve the many existing slot conflicts before worrying about adding new animations that weren't already cramming up the slots.

However, I did later stumble upon one mod that adds (or attempts to add) the scarecrow animation to the MBFI (IC_BEETLE_FIRE) slot. This is the RPG Kitpack, which uses it for some sort of summoning spell (summon scarecrow I guess). This is bad, because mega-mods will overwrite this slot with a Skeleton Warrior or Bronze Sentry. Or even worse, you'll get scarecrows running around instead of those creatures if you install RPG-KP. And (currently) you're screwed if you actually want a fire beetle there. This is typical of the issues with the current mods that add animations.

Part of the problem is once slots have been "freed up", added or otherwise resolved, a fair bit of code is necessary to settle any mod creatures that use those animations. Most of the mods in question are not being maintained, or in any case, the authors probably won't be willing to do this. I've done this for stacked slots and can probably take a stab if this ever gets to a point where there are new/resolved slots. This should be easier than settling stacked slots anyway, which requires a fair amount of additional weapon hackery.

Last I checked this, there was a finite amount of space in the executable to add new animations. Can we really add all the IWD/NWN/PST animations not currently in BG2? Would this require externalising a routine? Taimon has done something similar for adding new race string references, though I don't know if the same approach can be generalised to this project.

Sam. - wouldn't it be easier just to add your new data to the spreadsheet, or to get the "used in mods" data from there anyway, and have it all in a single clear source?

[Erephine]

No, because the spreadsheet isn't really what we're looking for, for the reasons you outlined yourself.

Last I checked this, there was a finite amount of space in the executable to add new animations. Can we really add all the IWD/NWN/PST animations not currently in BG2? Would this require externalising a routine? Taimon has done something similar for adding new race string references, though I don't know if the same approach can be generalised to this project.

I'm not sure, but having a clear picture of what's out there definitely helps if we have to decide on which to add as well.

[Sam.]

And for comparison purposes, here is the BGII Animation Table. I've semi-automated many of the steps, so it's going much faster now. I remember that in the game, the animation for one of the women that sit at a bar or table or something looked really off, sort of black and grey. When I was making this table, I noticed that the palette for SSIWM.BAM is all off. It should be the standard paletted-colors palette, but it's all jumbled up. Just thought I'd mention it.



How do the animations work in IWD 2? I haven't ever played it because I like 2nd edition rules much better... but I do own it.

Edited by Sam., 06 August 2009 - 09:40 PM.

[Erephine]

I don't think the palette matters, you could in theory mess it up in any way you'd like and the game would still render it correctly (there are a few exceptions I know of but they don't apply in this case) as long as the actual colour indexes used are correct. If you look at the BGI paperdoll images (and I think it was the first unarmoured dwarf attack animation?) you'll find several that have different palettes. I'll have a look at it.

How do the animations work in IWD 2? I haven't ever played it because I like 2nd edition rules much better... but I do own it.

Exactly the same as in Icewind Dale I, no difference at all.

Edited by Erephine, 06 August 2009 - 02:56 PM.

[Sam.]

Everything that's been done (and that's not normally in BGII) would be best. BG1 doesn't have any that aren't present in BGII as far as I remember, and IWD shares a lot.

It's easier to sort out which to add if you can see the larger pattern.

You'll have to excuse me here if i'm completely off-track. I'm not sure I understand entirely what is going on. I just wanted to say that if by animations you guys mean the actual avatar, in-game type figures, then I think the basilisk one from BG1 is not in BG2? I could be wrong...I simply saw it mentioned somewhere before i think, and even if i'm not wrong about that i'm probably talking about the wrong thing in the wrong place...

Wanted to mention it, just in case.

I think you are correct. If you look at the "BGII Animations.doc" you will see that there are no animations in the game for Basilisks, but there is an entry for it in the Animate.IDS. (And I just realized that "BGII Animations.doc" isn't complete. Damn.)

[Erephine]

You'll have to excuse me here if i'm completely off-track. I'm not sure I understand entirely what is going on. I just wanted to say that if by animations you guys mean the actual avatar, in-game type figures, then I think the basilisk one from BG1 is not in BG2? I could be wrong...I simply saw it mentioned somewhere before i think, and even if i'm not wrong about that i'm probably talking about the wrong thing in the wrong place...

Wanted to mention it, just in case.

You're not off-track and it does seem to be that way. It definitely explains why I couldn't find it when I went through the animations a couple of days ago. Like Sam said, it is listed in the .ids so at the time I passed it off as me being too stupid/tired to find it. Has anyone tried simply copying the files from BG1 to see if the animation entry works?

In any case, you're not wrong at all. Thanks for pointing it out

[Sam.]

In BGII: ToB, does anyone know the prefixes to the following animations?

DRAGON_GREEN
DRAGON_AQUA
DRAGON_BLUE
DRAGON_BROWN
DRAGON_MULTICOLOR
DRAGON_PURPLE
SHAMBLING_MOUND
ELEMENTAL_FIRE_PURPLE
ELEMENTAL_FIRE_SMALL_PURPLE
BURNING_MAN
WIZARD_EYE
BLOB_MIST_CREATURE
HULA_WIZARD

I pulled the animations from Anisnd.IDS because it links the prefixes with the animations, but there are about 18 used slots in Animate.IDS that aren't in Anisnd.IDS, and I haven't found their prefixes yet. The other three dragons (Red, Black, and Silver) are MDR1, MDR2, and MDR3, but that prefix pattern only goes to 3. The Shambling Mound might be the same animation as the Earth Elemental, I'm not sure. IWD Shambling Mound looks like the BGII Earth Elemental.

[Erephine]

They do not have their own prefix. Exactly like the bear animation they link to different palettes to be used with the same animation, the palette files being MDR1_GR*.BMP for green, MDR1_AQ*.BMP for aqua, MDR1_BL*.BMP for blue, MDR1_BR*.BMP for brown, MDR1_MC*.BMP for multi-colour and MDR1_PU*.BMP for purple dragons.

[Sam.]

They do not have their own prefix. Exactly like the bear animation they link to different palettes to be used with the same animation, the palette files being MDR1_GR*.BMP for green, MDR1_AQ*.BMP for aqua, MDR1_BL*.BMP for blue, MDR1_BR*.BMP for brown, MDR1_MC*.BMP for multi-colour and MDR1_PU*.BMP for purple dragons.

Thanks. How about the others?

The Tasloi seems to be missing just like the Basilisk and Greater Basilisk.

[Sam.]

I think I've gotten everything that there is to get besides BLOB_MIST_CREATURE and HULA_WIZARD, so if anyone cares to help me find their prefix, I would be thankful. The ONLY thing that I MIGHT not have gotten is if BGII truly stacks more than one animation in a slot, as they appear to have done with the Troll and the Tanarri.

Edited by Sam., 06 August 2009 - 09:39 PM.

[Cuv]

Good Lord Almighty!!!!!!

Go away for a few years and look what is going on

I will have to see about getting you all the data I collected over the years... I certainly didnt have time to post much of it, mostly just the finished products. All my mistakes also yielded information.

I tried to manually rewrite the exe ad naseum, but could only successfully add a single new animation slot. That new slot however, somehow managed to crash a different slot. I haven't downloaded your Yuan-Ti file yet, but will and take a look. This was something I really wanted to do, so I am glad to see someone taking it up.

Just some info that I can remember:

Basilisk slots are broken in BG2 and assigning a creature that animation will CTD... but perhaps they can be repaired.

Tasloi is also broken... I think

There are five types of animations used in BG2: NPC type, IWD type (yuan-ti), G1 type(ie: chicken, cow, basilisk), G11 type (ie: pirates, Bhodi, tasloi) and the multi-frame type (dragons and demogorgon).
All my PST animations were converted to use IWD slots... but I could possibly reconstruct them to fit G11 slots also. I did it with Nameless in my "Morte and Me" mini-mod.

The exe for BG2 is a mess, there is leftover stuff in there from MDK for gosh sakes. They just kept the old and added new. The only way to make this truly workable is to clean up the exe and add a whole bunch of IWD type slots. Yes, I know that is what you intend... and I hope you can do it. If you can do it... also adding a bunch of new G11 type slots would be good too. Those animations are much easier to create than IWD type. They are older, and only use 90 degrees/mirrored images. As do the G1 type... but those are even more limited... used for birds, rats, cows... and Basilisks.

BTW: Two of the MDK slots work! I 'think' the DOC slot is the broken one iirc. They are G11 slots.
Hula Wizard has a slot, but I think most mods already use that.

Blob Mist Creature is an unused animation with no slot... but the animation is in there.

I also found several other animations in the game that are not used at all. There was a third planetar, forget the file prefix.

Amel and Night Hag NWN animations are in my Ghosts Slot package.

Hope some of this info helps. I will see what I can dig up from my comp.

btw: You might want to have this topic moved to Modders Lounge (Seb? Liam?). I almost didn't see it when I stopped in to browse and see what has been happening. You might catch the attention of some other old modders, LOL.

I will check back in a few days to see how the discussion is going. Good luck.

Cuv

[Jarno Mikkola]

BGII_Animations.doc

Is there anyway you could add all the creature(.cre)s color references to the once that are not ... cause these could be nice to tweaked with this kind of patcher, or revise them with it... like for example taking a polar bear, giving it the creatures general color reference, and then use just one of the animations slots for all bears. After all, the DRAGON_GREEN, DRAGON_AQUA, DRAGON_BLUE, DRAGON_BROWN, DRAGON_MULTICOLOR and DRAGON_PURPLE are the same animations as the RED_DRAGON, just with recolored creature references... at least to my understanding, so they might all be using the same animation slot, as the creatures can be palleted even though they haven't been... for example, I make nearly pink rabbits! by mistake when copying a skeleton .cre from CA, and altering the animation slot in use, cause the original .cre skin color pallet was 105 and totally turned on... or something to that effect.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 07 August 2009 - 03:57 AM.

[Erephine]

Good Lord Almighty!!!!!!

Go away for a few years and look what is going on

I will have to see about getting you all the data I collected over the years... I certainly didnt have time to post much of it, mostly just the finished products. All my mistakes also yielded information.

I tried to manually rewrite the exe ad naseum, but could only successfully add a single new animation slot. That new slot however, somehow managed to crash a different slot. I haven't downloaded your Yuan-Ti file yet, but will and take a look. This was something I really wanted to do, so I am glad to see someone taking it up.

Nope, no crashing, I promise

I am glad to hear that.

Just some info that I can remember:

Basilisk slots are broken in BG2 and assigning a creature that animation will CTD... but perhaps they can be repaired.

Tasloi is also broken... I think

There are five types of animations used in BG2: NPC type, IWD type (yuan-ti), G1 type(ie: chicken, cow, basilisk), G11 type (ie: pirates, Bhodi, tasloi) and the multi-frame type (dragons and demogorgon).
All my PST animations were converted to use IWD slots... but I could possibly reconstruct them to fit G11 slots also. I did it with Nameless in my "Morte and Me" mini-mod.

I haven't had the time yet, but I'll look into it.

There are actually more than the five types (character animations for instance), but those are the major categories. Baldur's Gate has fairly individual animation slots while IWD pretty much sticks with one setup for most of them.

The exe for BG2 is a mess, there is leftover stuff in there from MDK for gosh sakes. They just kept the old and added new. The only way to make this truly workable is to clean up the exe and add a whole bunch of IWD type slots. Yes, I know that is what you intend... and I hope you can do it. If you can do it... also adding a bunch of new G11 type slots would be good too. Those animations are much easier to create than IWD type. They are older, and only use 90 degrees/mirrored images. As do the G1 type... but those are even more limited... used for birds, rats, cows... and Basilisks.

It is a bit of a mess, but it could be much worse. It's actually much cleaner than IWD II for instance, because it has a lot more redundancy to it (a lot of the code is not optimised).

I don't intend to clean up huge parts of it, I think for the most part we should be able to parasitically make do with what is there. I'm still not sure about the final implementation, but I definitely would like to support different animation types. Another thing I'd like to do is restore the BGI character animations as separate animation slots - the code is there, you just have to make use of it.

Hope some of this info helps. I will see what I can dig up from my comp.

btw: You might want to have this topic moved to Modders Lounge (Seb? Liam?). I almost didn't see it when I stopped in to browse and see what has been happening. You might catch the attention of some other old modders, LOL.

I will check back in a few days to see how the discussion is going. Good luck.

Cuv

It's still a 'help wanted', you know

If you don't mind me asking, how exactly did you convert the PST animations? Did you just port them or also resize/fit them to BGII where needed? More importantly did you convert any paletted PST animations? I'm asking because it seems like quite a bit of work to properly port them, since PST uses an entirely different colour table system. I've ported one of them so far.

I'm not looking to catch the attention of old modders as much as the attention of someone who'd actually like to help do this.

Is there anyway you could add all the creature(.cre)s color references to that... cause these could be nice to tweaked with this kind of patcher, or revise them with it... like for example taking a polar bear, giving it the creatures general color reference, and then use just one of the animations for all bears. After all, the DRAGON_GREEN, DRAGON_AQUA, DRAGON_BLUE, DRAGON_BROWN, DRAGON_MULTICOLOR and DRAGON_PURPLE are the same animations as the RED_DRAGON, just with recolored creature references... at least to my understanding.

It doesn't quite work that way. The different bears and dragons do use the same animation, but with an entirely different palette (none of them have any colour references). You cannot set these from within the game, you can only assign the creature a general colour as far as I understand which means essentially 'greyscaling' it. I don't know if I'm explaining this very well, but a green dragon isn't solid green and a polar bear isn't solid white - something which would not be possible to achieve with that kind of patcher.

[Cuv]

If you don't mind me asking, how exactly did you convert the PST animations? Did you just port them or also resize/fit them to BGII where needed? More importantly did you convert any paletted PST animations? I'm asking because it seems like quite a bit of work to properly port them, since PST uses an entirely different colour table system. I've ported one of them so far.

I had to extract frame sequences and build the animations from the bottom up. Yes, it took quite a bit of time. More time than I ever want to spend converting again I had to use BamWorkshop to assemble the frames, BamWorkshop II to clean up palette errors frame by frame, then DLTCEP to set the proper color and assemble them. Later I found out that 'almost' all the work could be done in DLTCEP, but by that time I was nearly finished. But all the creatures are done and in the downloads section here at SHS. If you are going to work on creating new slots, you may as well write the slots based on their PST prefix. There are 20+ of them.

Or... simply write in the animation coding from the PST exe to support their configuration. That is what I was originally trying to do... in theory it should work. BG2 and PST both use mirrored frames. But you have to make sure that you dont break any of the BG2 hex addresses that are referenced in the various ids and other files, otherwise it is a complete rewrite of the exe and tons of patching. I tried to do it by manually patching the exe, I didnt break the game but it didnt work... must have missed something. It was very tedious and I lost interest.

IIRC the only one that I offered in two sizes was the Lim-Lim.

No paletted animations were converted. I tried to convert the PST harlot (because she was sexier than the BG1/2 version), but had headaches and color trouble... so I gave up for more pressing matters.

Just a quick question: How did you arrive at Animate.ids offset 0xED11 for your new Yuan-Ti port?
The reason that I ask is that is the offset that I used and thought I was successful. I got my new animation working in the game, but then found that another animation was suddenly broken. I can't remember which one (sorry)... but it was further up the list in the IWD types and showed my new animation also instead of the stock version. You should cycle through the animations to verify that none are broken as a result.

Have you tried producing a macro that will add three additional slots to test this approach? I got as far as the one myself... but no further.

Yes, I know there are more types and configuration of animations. I was just speaking generally and dont know your modding skill level.

Let us know if you get three additional ones working and I will come out to play

Cuv