17 replies to this topic

[Qwinn]

Had this idea a couple nights ago, and yes, it should actually be pretty easy to do. I'm really looking forward to playing with this myself.

You know how when you start the game, you have 9 in all stats (which you can't reduce) and you have 21 points to distribute?

This tweak will start you with 3 in all stats, and 57 points to distribute.

You want a REALLY ugly TNO? Now you can haz. Want him to be slow as molasses? Go for it.

There IS a fair amount of dialogue in the files that we've never seen before because you couldn't have lower stats than 9, by the way. For example, trying to get a thief trainer to train you when you have less than 9 DEX will probably get you laughed at. Same with trying to be a mage with less than 9 INT. You really -won't- be able to become those classes if you shrift those stats. Being really dumb has some other amusing dialogue instances (though don't expect anything like being an INT<4 in Fallout type, it's just a few instances). And if you have less than 9 charisma, you can expect to generally just scare the crap out of all of the regular Hive Townies, heh. So it won't just be a matter of tweaking stats, having stats below 9 does actually have significant impact on gameplay and in some dialogues

(And if you're thinking, cool, I can stick 3 in charisma and then cast friends repeatedly on myself whenever I need it, sorry, but Fixpack 4.0 will also make the Friends spell not stackable with itself, cause that is a bug

I have no idea what to name this tweak, though, heh. Any suggestions?

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 08 May 2009 - 04:36 PM.

[Qwinn]

Note that stats will still be capped at 18 on the starting screen, so this won't help you get 3 stats to 25 at the start, for example.

I'm comfortable with this tweak because PS:T thankfully doesn't really have any dump stats. Obviously, dumping WIS is going to hurt the hell out of your TNO. Dumping DEX bars you from being a thief, and dumping INT means no spells for you. You could dump charisma, but that WILL have an impact on dialogues and rewards (and rob you of Nordom's best upgrade, for example), so there's a significant price even for that one. Strength and Constitution would also seem very unlikely candidates for dump stats. So this mod isn't going to help you create some monster TNO by min-maxing. It'd be most useful, I think, to enhance roleplaying, and I think it'd be pretty neat in that respect, so.

Scient has found where the points you distribute can be changed, and I know how to change the starting stats, so this tweak will probably be working on my comp by tonight. Barring some unexpected discovery of some bizarre buggy weirdness that would screw things up with low stats and explain -why- they put a lower cap of 9 on all the stats, this should definitely be in version 4.0 of the tweak pack.

Still need a name for it, though!

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 08 May 2009 - 05:25 PM.

[gothemasticator]

I like it. Name? Hmmm...

More Choice Character Screen
OR
Go Nerf Yourself

gothemasticator

[Qwinn]

Go Nerf Yourself

It's not a nerf at all, really. The point total is the same. It just gives you more freedom on how you want to spend 'em.

Qwinn

[Icendoan]

Go with the general "More Attribute Shifting At Character Creation".

Icen

[Kaeloree]

"Distributable Stats"?

[HomiSite]

It's not a nerf at all, really. The point total is the same. It just gives you more freedom on how you want to spend 'em.

Sounds like an interesting tweak, although I don't know if I'll try it, if I am gonna play PST again (whenever it will be).
To the name - you already said it: "[More Attributes] Freedom tweak" (although that suggestion is not fully serious, I think it does not work in English this way).

[Qwinn]

Good suggestions. This one occurred to me after reading 'em (particularly K'aeloree's):

"Disabled Stat Minimums"

or maybe:

"No Minimum Stats"

Since that is what we're technically doing.

The other ones were good too, though.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 09 May 2009 - 06:59 PM.

[Qwinn]

Okay, I actually implemented this now, and it's going to work a little differently than I thought at first. I'm not going to lower the default scores to 3... they'll all still start at 9, as usual. However, you can subtract from them, and doing so will increase the points you can distribute. The overall effect is the same. This is a better way to do it, though, because the rest of the CHARBASE.CRE file seems to assume you're starting from that base of 9's (in terms of hit points, for example), so doing it this way minimizes the possibility of error. Seems to work great, far as I can tell.

Just reading the description attached to the various values is reason enough to install this tweak, heh. "Your Intelligence marks you as a drooling idiot." "You have the strength of an infant."

Qwinn

[Qwinn]

Changing the stat checks would be, IMO, a much more significant and intrusive alteration than this tweak that simply lets you reduce a stat below 9.

Qwinn

[Karnor]

You might want to consider keeping strength with a minimum starting stat of 9. A character with less than 9 strength won't qualify for the fighter class (under 2ED rules) which could cause a problem as TNO starts off as a fighter.

Actually you could end up with TNO not being able to qualify for any class if STR, DEX and INT were all below 9!

[Qwinn]

Yeah, you do have a point, I was thinking about that myself. Fighters also have a min CON of 6, I think. I am in fact considering what you suggest, haven't really decided yet. Any input anyone wants to give on that is welcome.

Note that I don't think it actually causes any -problems- if you were to play as a fighter with 5 strength. Nothing actually breaks or anything. But your point about it breaking 2nd ed rules to let him be a fighter with <9 strength remains valid regardless. The question is, for a tweak, do we care?

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 05 August 2009 - 02:16 PM.

[Tyr Vedra]

Just returned to PST after a few months distracted by other games, and WHOA, it appears you fixer-upper-ers have made HEAPS of progress since the 3.xx releases. This is crazy-awesome! Reading all these new fixes, tweaks, and businesses, makes me look forward to playing PST even more! (In short, I'm thankful)

Quinn, call me pessimistic, but I sincerely hope you have backed-up all your work on the next version. It'd be a bugger if your hard drive crashed or some such (I'm just sayin')

As for this tweak, I love it. How far in the game could you get with 3 STR/CON, I wonder? Or INT/WIS for that matter. It might not break anything, but it might make things extremely difficult - that might be reason for keeping it within the 2E ruleset. (In short, I'm not sure)

[Karnor]

I don't think it is necessarily a problem for TNO to have strength of less than 9 and still be a fighter. Given his history we can easily assume that he wakes up with some of the skills (fighter skills) from a previous life. Why else would he start as a level 3 fighter after all?

And under 2ED rules, the minimum stat requirements are only applicable when you first choose a class. If your stats subsequently fall below those minimums then you still retain your class.

PS: There was no minimum con requirement for fighters.

Edited by Karnor, 11 November 2009 - 04:57 AM.

[Markus Ramikin]

Looks interesting. But to be honest, if I choose to install this tweak (debating with myself atm), all I'll use it for is to minmax a little harder than was possible before. Aka to get 17 in the three mental stats from the start. I don't have the stamina for extra playthroughs of secondary builds any more

Is there any real malus for having low con? Do you get a lower HP base?

Also is there any malus for having low Strength as a mage? well hm I guess in the weight you can carry, though with Morte and Dak'kon available from the start, I doubt I'll notice much...

Edited by Markus Ramikin, 12 November 2009 - 08:06 AM.