13 replies to this topic

[-JR-]

First off, for those of you who don't know me, I'm an enthusiastic writer with Forgotten Realms writing experience who has been playing Baldur's Gate since it came out in 1998. However, I'm (relatively) new to the modding world, and looking to participate. I was looking for a big project to prove myself and get started out, and I think I might have found it.

I've always felt the Bioware romances were a bit short and simple compared to those of the wonderful NPCs people have made (Amber, Angelo, Kivan, Xan, etc). Jaheira is definitely an exception length-wise, but the depth of the content is still arguable.

Anyway, I would very much like to go into them and expand on the ideas Bioware presented, and bring them up to the level we have come to expect. Aerie and Viconia would definitely benefit the most, but I think Jaheira's use a tune-up as well. Also, outside of simply expanding the LTs and hoping people would enjoy the new length and options getting you toward the same end, I had another idea: different paths leading to different ends.

This doesn't affect many of my runs through the game, as I usually play as a good or neutral PC, but it's pretty clear that you were meant to be the good guy, and for the most part, evil actions are uncharacteristic side branches from the main plot. The Assassinations project at Pocket Plane Group and others have made steps towards making the game more roleplay friendly for evil or aggressive people. However, there are no real Bioware romance options for a manipulative PC. Viconia's non-redemption path is arguably close to this, but it still would take an incredibly forgiving and loving character to get over her past and the defenses she puts up in SoA, and more of the same to keep after her once she comes right out and says "it's over" at the end of SoA, at least in the Bioware path. Also added, though it requres less description and justification, would be choices for simpler characters or ones with more insight (either stat-based or dialogue-based). Just an overall expansion.

Now I'm not much one for smut, and not much for random or demonic choices being placed into random spots in the game, so there wouldn't be anything truly heinous in the mod if I was in charge, just an attempt at increased realism for a low intelligence, manipulative, or less-than-patient PC; the kind of flaws that make a character human (or demihuman), and just that much more believable.

I am aware that something like this was initially considered here at Spellhold Studios as part of the IEP (something which I also might have a part in soon), but to my knowledge it haas been dropped or postponed as the project moved forward and took on a newer shape. Personally, I agree that it should be seperate the friendships from the romances, but I would definitely want to work to make sure the romance extensions didn't conflict with any part of the friendship mods in particular (I'm thinking conflict interjections).

Also, I would like to make it clear that if I got.. I dunno the term, sponsership? Support? for this idea, I wouldn't keep it all to myself unless no one else was interested. I would be open to assistance, criticism, possibly even some writing submitions. I would also definitely not want to overshadow the NPC Flirt mod by making new flirts, so maybe we could consider a merging or complete seperation of the two.

Let me know what you think.

Edited by SentinelBlade77, 24 April 2009 - 11:17 AM.

[Thanatos.]

Linkage.

[SConrad]

Thanatos: Considering the fact that SentinelBlade77 mentioned the Flirtpacks in his posts, you can probably safely assume he's already familiar with it.

SentinelBlade77: I think the general concept of expanding the Bioware NPC romances is a good idea. As you say, a lot of the mod NPCs have more content than the original NPCs, and I for one am in support of mods that expand on existing characters rather than introducing new ones (though being the creator of 2-3 NPC mods makes me somewhat of a hypocrite for saying that).

However, I'd like to mention some problems I can see with the project.

You hinted that you want the romance expansion(s) to work alongside the Flirtpacks and the IEP. I imagine you might want to extend that to other mods that expand on the original NPCs--such as the banter packs--as well. This is going to significantly increase the technical difficulty of the project, as you would need to create a mod that would function with any combination of said mods. If you are new to the modding scene, a project with such technical difficulty as a "first mod" can be a huge undertaking--I'm not saying it's impossible, but you'd have to be able to pick up the coding aspects pretty fast.

The other issue with new content together with other mods that also add new content is the time factor. If there's just too much content, most players won't be able to see it all in the actual game--assuming that you don't want to simply overwhelm the player with lovetalks, banters, flirts and interjections.

You did also mention a complete separation of your idea and the Flirtpacks, which is what I would recommend--for reasons already said.

[-JR-]

You hinted that you want the romance expansion(s) to work alongside the Flirtpacks and the IEP. I imagine you might want to extend that to other mods that expand on the original NPCs--such as the banter packs--as well. This is going to significantly increase the technical difficulty of the project, as you would need to create a mod that would function with any combination of said mods. If you are new to the modding scene, a project with such technical difficulty as a "first mod" can be a huge undertaking--I'm not saying it's impossible, but you'd have to be able to pick up the coding aspects pretty fast.

Though I did indeed have that in mind as a potential path, and I am grateful you addressed it, I was aware of the difficulty of it and would not consider undertaking it unless freely offered the services of an experienced coder. For the most part I was simply referring to becoming very familiar with those mods in particular and trying to cut into their territory as little as possible (ie: not making dialogues redundant to already-made expansions, and/or possibly linking them to the supplimentary flirtpack and banterpacks in the readme.

The other issue with new content together with other mods that also add new content is the time factor. If there's just too much content, most players won't be able to see it all in the actual game--assuming that you don't want to simply overwhelm the player with lovetalks, banters, flirts and interjections.

True. I guess I'm going off of my personal experiences where I do everything there is to do in the game, so the romances are sometimes over long before I reach Brynnlaw. I was assuming this mod would be made more for the hardcore players who follow a similar path, while the other packs by themselves would satisfy medium-interest players. But you make a good point; it should be more open to everyone. I'll keep a close eye on the length, and consider mimicking the timer accelerator that one of these mods has, I forget which. Maybe a warning in the readme suggesting it not be used alongside more than X number of the following mods unless you are planning on playing the full game or if the banter accelerator is installed.

Er, that was a bit jumbled, did I make sense?
We'll make it work, we'll make it work. If it's getting too long I can always trim it.

[KIrving]

First off, for those of you who don't know me, I'm an enthusiastic writer with Forgotten Realms writing experience who has been playing Baldur's Gate since it came out in 1998. However, I'm (relatively) new to the modding world, and looking to participate. I was looking for a big project to prove myself and get started out, and I think I might have found it.

I would think that a small project would be a more effective way to start out with modding. Something that you are really passionate about, regardless of interest by other modders and players. Also something that you are keen to begin coding yourself.
Big projects, as a toe dip into the modding scene, tend to get quickly overwhelmed by the sheer scope of it all and are restricted by the ever diminishing pool of experienced IE modders available to work on a project that is not their baby. (I'm not a modder. I've only helped out with playtesting and proofreading over the years however I've been in the community for a long time and have seen so many mods proposed, started on and abandoned. The large expansion mod, Return to Windspear, was the mod that first drew me to this community.)

Aerie and Viconia would definitely benefit the most, but I think Jaheira's use a tune-up as well. Also, outside of simply expanding the LTs and hoping people would enjoy the new length and options getting you toward the same end, I had another idea: different paths leading to different ends.

Is it only the female BioWare romance interests you would be planning to expand? Any plans for Anomen?

Now I'm not much one for smut,

A pity. IMO, If there is one thing that the rather tame BioWare romances need it's some smutting up.

[berelinde]

We're in the minority, KIrving. We like Anomen.

TBH, I'd rather Anomen were left out entirely than have somebody do it who doesn't like the guy. He's been through enough, with all the abuse he's had to endure from mod NPCs over the years.

But yes, your best bet is to learn to mod on something small, like a one-day NPC or a single quest, not on a massive project. You'll probably wind up doing both the writing and coding yourself. KIrving is right. Nobody has unlimited free time to devote to modding. If an active modder has time, he probably has twice as many projects to fill it. Ask me about *my* backlog, I dare you.

And yay, smut!

[DDV]

I like the idea of expanding the Bioware romances and think it's definately worth persuing. However, I would take the advice of trying to make something small first. If you decide to jump in the at the deep end you could end up feeling overwhelmed very quickly.

Ask me about *my* backlog, I dare you.

Tell us about your backlog

Edited by DDV, 21 May 2009 - 11:08 AM.

[berelinde]

Three NPCs for BG2 (Gavin, Haldamir, one not to be disclosed), though thankfully Haldamir is done for SoA, one NPC romance recode, one convenience mod update (Homeward Bound), and an (overly) ambitious project that's going to take a while. And I've been thinking about Anomen lately. And Keldorn. But not at the same time. Oh, and I need to fix some things in BG1 Gavin.

About all I've released in the last couple months is bugfixed Fading Promises and a couple translations.

[DDV]

Three NPCs for BG2 (Gavin, Haldamir, one not to be disclosed), though thankfully Haldamir is done for SoA, one NPC romance recode, one convenience mod update (Homeward Bound), and an (overly) ambitious project that's going to take a while. And I've been thinking about Anomen lately. And Keldorn. But not at the same time. Oh, and I need to fix some things in BG1 Gavin.

About all I've released in the last couple months is bugfixed Fading Promises and a couple translations.

What do you mean by an npc romance recode?

[berelinde]

It's a romance somebody else wrote, but it needs to be recoded because it has a couple persistent bugs and because it needs a little native-English-speaker attention. Someone else did the actual writing.

[berelinde]

Sorry for derailing the topic. My part in it is continued here.

[Cal Jones]

I'm a completist (that's to say I do every quest I can, and most before going to Brynnlaw) yet Jaheira and Viconia's romances usually have me killing time in Chapter 6 waiting for the next lovetalk. Aerie could do with more fleshing out, perhaps, but the other two ladies have enough going on. What I would suggest is giving them all a PID. Not flirts, specifically, but more like Angelo's PID (and Iylos if you have played him) where you can ask him stuff.

[Crazee]

What I'd personally like to see is an expansion of exsisting lovetalks. The romances can feel very limited at times, and I'd like to see the responses accomadate a wider, more varied range of characters. What I mean by this is just a few more PC options which reflect different personalities.

For instance, instead of just having the options: "That's very good, Anomen.", "That's a little arrogant, Anomen." and "You're a pompous twit and I want you to leave me alone.", I'd also like to see an option for a more witty character, a reserved character, a polite, but cold character. Obviously catering to every personality would be impossible, but a little more choice would be nice.

Probably not what this concept is really about, and probably not worth the effort, but on a personal level, I'd enjoy it.

If you did do what you have suggested, I'd definitely play it. I love Cal's idea, too.