79 replies to this topic

[Quitch]

This is the wrong topic for that debate.

[MantraSong]

(Evilness/Love is an almost oxymoron, actually....)

I disaggree with that statement, being evil does not necessaraly mean that you cant love, quite the opposite, in fact: many evil things have been done because of love.

Take Irenecus- even before he was cast out, he loved Ellesime, and he still did evil things, thats what got him cast out in the first place!!! and some of the things he did later, like the dryads and the clones were both done because he was still trying to love her.

[Littiz]

Eh, I know, oxymorons are a part of life.

2 years from that statement, instead of doing an easy reply about "obsessions vs true love forms"... I'd say you're right

I've changed a lot my views recently: people that (pretend to) love too many others and too many things, act rarely in deep resonance with such a presumption.
(and with a strange, mixed sense of sadness and relief, I'm starting to learn how evil and egoistic I truly am myself...).
On the other hand, if you can get a really egoistic and hateful person to love you, then it's a feeling worth mentioning.

[Quitch]

Good to hear you're finally heading towards the true path, Littiz.

[Littiz]

That's not precisely what I've said, but oh well, we'll see

[Quitch]

So long as you are embracing your true self and no longer trying to supress urges that have been fought for too long, then no matter how imperfect you are your stumbling will eventually lead you to the true path.

[Littiz]

The terms are different, really. I'm not a ruthless savage as you are
I've finally identified and... contained (!) my good part: I hate the idea of people being harmed, killed, having accidents, and all.
But that's it. For the rest I am egoistic, greedy, arrogant, cold, bastard.
Yet I understand perfectly what are the lies you are talking about.
Take for example one of the lessons I learned in my 28 years of life: envy (the following you can carve on virgin stones)

When they envy someone, in some (not so) secret part of their souls, the Good grow hate for that person (after all they have their "good" reasons for it!).
Though they use a different rethoric with themselves, their actual thought is: "how could I damage the person I envy"?

When the Evil envy... they couldn't care less about the envied person.
All they really think is: "how can I obtain (an equivalent of) the things I envy?"

It's been after similar learnings that I started prefer evilness to goodness, since I want to head for the stuff B)
Ok, ok, maybe I have some lies myself to drop still, give me time

Edited by Littiz, 26 July 2004 - 12:37 PM.

[Erephine]

It is possible to change your 'alignment' in real life as well.

Its a lengthy process and takes a lot of work, but it is possible.

[Quitch]

Only a fool would leave the true path for the false promises of others. The weak will always try to tempt you with calls of equality and servitude. Kick them aside and do not let them drag into the mire they inhabit.

[Dallyo]

Even though I probably won't download the mod, I do commend you on your efforts to expand upon the character, especially because Imoen is my favorite character in the series and I found her cool, but....not all that "complete".

I just read your first post...I can't read the whole thread at the moment. But "thumbs up" for you.

[Dallyo]

I don't think Quitch is planing on any such change, making the the idea of romancing her like, um, kissing your sister.

....Kissing your sister isn't necessarily wrong....it's HOW you kiss your sister.

[Quitch]

This isn't the topic, or even the forum, for that sort of question.

[Stone Wolf]

Putting it simply, TeamBG was hacked, and noone knows when or if it'll come back online.

If you have any more questions about other mod sites, please post them in the general forum.

[Quitch]

*Sigh*
Ok I just have to put in my two cents on this sorry for all who is sick of it but meh.
I say if it was in imoens character to get into a romantic relationship with the pc without a hellvia lot of work(Like trying to change who she basicly) I would not really care so much about imoen romances in mods, this mod seems cool but I will not download it on the grounds that it changed her character too much if a romance is invovled.

Hell chloes romance is more believable then a pc/imoen one.

I agree with the last guy who said this, imoen thinks of you as a brother.

In closing its not that fact that its morally wrong for this to happen its the fact that from what I have gathered from her character it wouldn't happen.

Imoen does indeed think of you as her half-brother/sister, as evidenced by her dialogue with Viconia. However, that exists in a world where Imoen is static. As soon as a mod introduces banter and dialogues between the PC and Imoen, this is a no longer true and Imoen's character can no longer be assumed to be seperate from the rest of the world. As long as her mind is open to others around her, it can be shaped, and when a mind can be shaped assumptions based on a static model are dangerous assumptions indeed.

[Piotyr]

*Sigh*
Ok I just have to put in my two cents on this sorry for all who is sick of it but meh.
I say if it was in imoens character to get into a romantic relationship with the pc without a hellvia lot of work(Like trying to change who she basicly) I would not really care so much about imoen romances in mods, this mod seems cool but I will not download it on the grounds that it changed her character too much if a romance is invovled.

Hell chloes romance is more believable then a pc/imoen one.

I agree with the last guy who said this, imoen thinks of you as a brother.

In closing its not that fact that its morally wrong for this to happen its the fact that from what I have gathered from her character it wouldn't happen.

Imoen does indeed think of you as her half-brother/sister, as evidenced by her dialogue with Viconia. However, that exists in a world where Imoen is static. As soon as a mod introduces banter and dialogues between the PC and Imoen, this is a no longer true and Imoen's character can no longer be assumed to be seperate from the rest of the world. As long as her mind is open to others around her, it can be shaped, and when a mind can be shaped assumptions based on a static model are dangerous assumptions indeed.

Yes but take into consideration the fact that not all peoples minds can be shaped. Not everyone can be swayed from their way of thinking like myself, or at least I think of like myself, even if I could there have been people who could not be swayed. Really before you think to change a character from who she is to who you want her to be you should ask yourself do you really think shes they type to be swayed this way? In Imoens case I do not think she is.

I could see most of the other npcs doing that but not Imoen.

[Stone Wolf]

Yes but take into consideration the fact that not all peoples minds can be shaped. Not everyone can be swayed from their way of thinking like myself, or at least I think of like myself, even if I could there have been people who could not be swayed. Really before you think to change a character from who she is to who you want her to be you should ask yourself do you really think shes they type to be swayed this way? In Imoens case I do not think she is.

I could see most of the other npcs doing that but not Imoen.

Most people are quite capable of changin their opinions due to external events. Actually, everyone is to at least some degree. If you couldn't, you'd have a very hard time functioning in society.

The real question (in my never-quite-humble opinion), is could Imoen's mind be changed in this matter. The answer to that depends largely on a personal (and therefore highly biased) interpretation of Imoen's character. People you know for decades can still surprise you, and we certainly know them better than we could know a computer rpg character with, what, less than one hundred lines in the entire game? Everyone will have a different opinion of who Imoen is, and those opinions will vary widely due to the small amount of info available.

Quitch can only work with his own opinion of who Imoen as and how she'd react to different stimuli. That's all anyone can do, really. He's said (probably dozens of times) that he's going to try and let the PC decide how they will think of Imoen, and write how he thinks Imoen will respond to that. Some people have said that they won't download the mod if a romance option is included. I've got two things to say on that:

1) If you have such a strong opinion on an NPCs character, why not write a mod yourself? Odds are you won't find any mod created by another person that satisfies you, so why not see how many people agree with you? It's certainly more productive than complaining about how other people see the character. If your option is so rigid, why do you think you'll change the minds of other people?

2) If you're choosing not to download a mod because it might have the possibility of an NPC behaving in a manner you don't think is accurate, you're only denying yourself the enjoyment you'd get our of playing the mod. Quitch has said that Imoen won't be the agressor romantically, so you'd have to actually try to force the NPC to act in the way you don't like. That's like punching yourself in the face and complaining about the pain.

Bah, that's all I'll say.