461 replies to this topic

[melkor_morgoth75]

So is SCS removing the "NumInParty(6)" block from the script? Why?

 

If so it's a SCS fault here ...

 

mm75

[The Imp]

So is SCS removing the "NumInParty(6)" block from the script? Why?

 

If so it's a SCS fault here ...

 

mm75

Erhm, it might be that the SCS tries to summon the hardest encounters ... but fails because you take them step by step, as in you summon 1 if there's 1 character, 2 if there's two and so forth, up to 6 party members and 6 monsters... isn't that what the .baf does ?

[melkor_morgoth75]

Not really ... or better, my script checks for numbers of party members, then it randomly spawns encounters (hardest in wilder areas).

 

Of course if "some other scripts" remove che check for NumPartyMembers that wont trigger correctly. But I have no clue what SCS is doing now (never had this issue).

 

mm75

[melkor_morgoth75]

Let's take the following:

 

IF
  Range([PC],35)
  OR(2)
  TimeOfDay(0)
  TimeOfDay(3)
  NumInParty(3)
  OR(3)
  CheckStat(StrongestOf(Myself),1,LEVEL)
  CheckStat(StrongestOf(Myself),1,LEVEL2)
  CheckStat(StrongestOf(Myself),1,LEVEL3)
  !CheckStatGT(StrongestOf(Myself),1,LEVEL)
  !CheckStatGT(StrongestOf(Myself),1,LEVEL2)
  !CheckStatGT(StrongestOf(Myself),1,LEVEL3)
  Global("SpawnReset24232007","AR7223",0)
  Global("RandomSet24232007_3","AR7223",1)
THEN
  RESPONSE #90
    SetGlobal("SpawnReset24232007","AR7223",1)
    CreateCreature("ZOMBIE",[2423.2007],0)  // Zombie
    SetGlobalTimer("012324232007","AR7223",2400)
  RESPONSE #10
    SetGlobal("SpawnReset24232007","AR7223",1)
    CreateCreature("GHOUL",[2423.2007],0)  // Ghoul
    SetGlobalTimer("012324232007","AR7223",2400)
END
 

 

My script there checks if there are 3 members in the party and the highest level is 1, then it randomly spawn 90% of time a Zombie, 10% a Ghoul

 

Of course if for any reason the check for "NumInParty" has been removed it will spawn ALWAYS the first trigger only in the script.

 

mm75

Edited by melkor_morgoth75, 14 October 2013 - 01:05 AM.

[DrAzTiK]

 I love this mod but would it be possible to add more triggers and difficult monsters in donjons? I mean : If there is a place where random encouters should be the most difficult, it shoud be in donjons.

 For example, I find the ramdom encounters in durlag tower to be  quite weak and in few numbers. Same about most BG1 donjons.

Edited by DrAzTiK, 14 October 2013 - 03:01 AM.

[melkor_morgoth75]

Tx DrAzTiK,

 

currently the mod affects just a very very few dungeons (it doesn't touch Durlag's encounters), but it modify the Nashkel Dungeons for example. Also the Firewine bridge ...

 

As for now unfortunately I have no plan to add new areas to the mod, RL is taking me away from modding

 

mm75

Edited by melkor_morgoth75, 14 October 2013 - 04:46 AM.

[DrAzTiK]

Yeah, it would be  really cool to have BG spawn for BG EE's.  How can we play BG EE without decent spawns and enemy !

[melkor_morgoth75]

I don't believe I'd work on a BG EE version. No time really and personally I still don't see the reason to play BG EE. What's the point?

 

Please also note that BGSpawn needs BGT to work and BG EE doesn't give u the chance to play the 2 games all together as BGT does, am I right?

 

mm75

[Miloch]

I don't believe I'd work on a BG EE version. No time really and personally I still don't see the reason to play BG EE. What's the point?

Oh, ye heathen of little faith... the main point is that some awesome modders have contributed to it.

 

I haven't really looked into your code/scripting but offhand, it probably wouldn't be incompatible with BG:EE. You'd probably just have to change BGT-style area names/resources to BG1-style names.

[melkor_morgoth75]

Oh, ye heathen of little faith... the main point is that some awesome modders have contributed to it.

 

I haven't really looked into your code/scripting but offhand, it probably wouldn't be incompatible with BG:EE. You'd probably just have to change BGT-style area names/resources to BG1-style names.

 

LOL so that excludes myself, far from being an awesome modder ROFL

 

Really, I have no time to look at that (and also personally I still don't see any reason to play BGEE over BGT...). If it would be really really easy and just a matter of Area names, but it is not for sure I fear (example: I'm wondering about the fixed variables I did use for random spawns, taken from Tutu spawns directly, no clue what kind of new vars should be over a BGEE game there).

 

mm75

[LuD]

Oh, ye heathen of little faith... the main point is that some awesome modders have contributed to it.

 

I haven't really looked into your code/scripting but offhand, it probably wouldn't be incompatible with BG:EE. You'd probably just have to change BGT-style area names/resources to BG1-style names.

 

LOL so that excludes myself, far from being an awesome modder ROFL

 

Really, I have no time to look at that (and also personally I still don't see any reason to play BGEE over BGT...). If it would be really really easy and just a matter of Area names, but it is not for sure I fear (example: I'm wondering about the fixed variables I did use for random spawns, taken from Tutu spawns directly, no clue what kind of new vars should be over a BGEE game there).

 

mm75

Question to you, Melkor: can i install components 1,2,3 (encounters between areas, respawning time and vampiric wolf) without installing core component 0 too? In other words, is it possible to use components 1,2,3 with the TuTu spawn system included in BGTweaks? Thanks.

[The Imp]

Question to you, Melkor: can i install components 1,2,3 (encounters between areas, respawning time and vampiric wolf) without installing core component 0 too? In other words, is it possible to use components 1,2,3 with the TuTu spawn system included in BGTweaks? Thanks.

Nope. You can read this from the mods own .tra file, for example: BGSpawn_v1_12.rar\BGSpawn\tra\english\english.tra .

[LuD]

Mmm, too bad... I'm looking for a satisying spawn system for my BGT installation. Can you help me, Imp?

[The Imp]

No.

[Dakk]

I might be mistaken here; but didn't someone (Ascension?) ask for permission to use the TUTU spawning? Tweaking it so it would give correct spawns that was not leveled (i.e. exactly what LuD wants)? But was refused to use the code from the tutu-author?

Edited by Dakk, 22 January 2015 - 02:44 AM.

[LuD]

As I understand it, the TuTu's spawn system is implemented into the "BGT Tweak Pack" mod (component 1101: TuTu-style leveled spawns). To my very chagrin, it also looks like that the TuTu spawns are leveled too, just as the the component's name suggests, and exactly like BGSpawn mod does. Is it possible that nobody has thought of solving this (in my opinion serious) lacuna?

[melkor_morgoth75]

Sorry for the late answer, I don't connect so often lately.

 

Im not sure I understood your need anyway. Why would you skip the core component? It just means avoiding the mod basically.

 

Btw as The Imp pointed previously all the components needs the core to work (but Vampiric Wolf mod, I still dont see the point btw to avoid the core system)

 

mm75

[LuD]

Hi Melkor. I was simply trying to combine a good peculiarity of BGSpawn System (the possibility of setting the respawn time of monsters) with the respawn system of TuTu, more similar to the original BG1 system. The result would have been in any case insufficient, since both TuTu and BGSpawn use a level-scaling system that makes it simply impossible to maintain the suspension of disbelief that we all need.

The sad truth is that, in the current state of things, there’s no respawn system that can be considered really acceptable, and all three systems applicable to BGT (which is the basis on which the subsequent assessments depend) have negative aspects that cancel out their positivity:

            - The BGT’s spawn system lacks realism, as it tends to create groups of monsters conceptually incompatible. It also seems to make use of pre-programmed creatures, resulting in a lack of the necessary randomness.
            - The TuTu’s spawn system has the level scaling and a not editable respawning timer. Also it misses the right randomness, as it always creates the maximum number of possible monsters and always places them at all available points of appearance.
            - The BGSpawn System has the level scaling and lacks randomness, because the monsters are bound to specific geographical areas and light conditions, so that the player always knows what to expect. Also, as I understand it, introduces in BG1 some BG2’s creatures, resulting in flattening the natural diversification between the two games and erasing the wonder effect that accompanies the player going from one to the other.

NB: The combination "EasyTuTu + Monster randomiser" would be interesting if it were not for the presence (here too...) of the level scaling and the obligation to give up BGT, which I consider essential, as necessary for the use of the Big World Setup.

Now, I do not know how much modders are willing to overhaul their spawn systems, but if so, I highly recommend them to keep in mind some important guidelines:

1) LEVEL SCALING AS OPTIONAL COMPONENT

Some may like to move in a world that lacks its objectivity and seems to have no other function than to act as a mirror to the player's skills, but many other players feel this way of conceive the game simply unbearable.

A good spawn system should take into account the needs of both types of gamers, allowing them to set up and down the level scaling according to their vision of the game. Even better would be the possibility to use a radom level scaling system, setting a percentage (50% seems honest) below which the monsters are scaled, and above they are fixed, with different levels of power. Such a system would ensure the right balance between difficulty and unpredictability of such encounters.

2) RANDOMNESS

The player should never be in a position to predict what is going to happen. In this regard, there are three basic types of randomness that they should be observed:

            a - Randomness of numbers: it should always exists a minimum and a maximum number of creatures that can be encountered, and this number must be determined by a logical-based percentage. To meet 1 or 12 goblins should be possible but unlikely, while to meet 6 goblins should be equally possible and likely. To meet always 8 goblins is simply disturbing.
            b - Randomness of power: this case falls into the category of "no level scaling", treated above.
            c - Randomness of places and times: except for the most grotesque combinations (a polar bear in the forest, a vampire on a sunny beach...), there should always be a certain chance to meet any creature in any area of the game. The monsters are not puppets to put on a shelf without a word: they are supposed to be living creatures, and as such capable of walking ability and spirit of exploration and curiosity. Apart from that, to meet ONLY undead during the night-time travels and ONLY goblinoids and wild beasts during the daytime risks to becoming a bit monotonous. A certain degree of surprise (a skeleton army in sunlight, or a pack of gnolls in a nocturnal forest) should always be present, and the player should have not absolute references.

3) CONSISTENCE

Consistency is the key, in all of the three forms it can present:

            a - Consistency of monsters at regard of monsters: one zombie, one gnoll and a polar bear do not group together. If they do, the credibility of the game is simply destroyed. The monsters must always and necessarily adhere to a policy of racial affinities (a group comprised of only gnolls, perhaps with a stronger one to direct operations) or at least of narrative plausibility (groups formed by six gnolls and an ogre, or mixed groups of goblins and wolves, albeit inconsistent on the racial ground, are credible in terms of narrative).
            b - Consistency of monsters at regard of the game mood: BG1 has its peculiar atmosphere, based around the presence of two specific groups of creatures: goblinoids (gnolls, ogres, kobolds, goblins, etc ...), and wild animals (wolves, bears, wild dogs, wyverns, spiders, basilisks, ankhegs, etc ...). The undead are rare, shapeshifters and demons quite unique. These are the main characters of BG1, and BG1 is fascinating thanks to the presence of them. No need to do more: for that, there’s Shadows of Amn. Do more only destroys the original sweet game’s atmosphere.
            c - Consistency of monsters at regard of times and places: just as in the real world, each creature type must have its habitat and his favorite time of day to go hunting. Be aware: this point may appears in contrast with the point 2-c "randomness of places and times”, as constraining some creatures to specific places and times fulfills the principle of credibility but destroys surprise and randomness, while allowing all the monsters to always appear in all the areas and at all times fulfills the principle of randomness but destroys the world’s credibility. In fact, it is sufficient to act wisely on the probability tables to reconcile these two needs. Establishing a percentage like the following for a night-time travel...

 

            40% chance of running into undead

            30% chance of running into wild animals

            20% chance of running into goblinoids

            8% chance of running into shapeshifters

            2% chance of running into a demon

 

                        ...makes it possible to keep the consistency of the monsters relatively to the surroundings and at the same time to set an element of unpredictability that makes travel more fun and lively.

If anyone of good will wanted to implement these features in a spawn system mod, or at least develop a mod that restores the original BG1 system (which already roughly fulfills the criteria stated above) he would do something very welcome to all persons who are or will be in the process of approaching BGT. Otherwise, only two choices remain: to play BGT with an unsatisfactory spawn system, or give entirely up with BGT, with all that this implies.

Edited by LuD, 06 February 2015 - 03:56 PM.

[Dakk]

Well that, that.. that sums up my thoughts exactly.

 

For me, the most critical things are 1 (no scaling) and 3a (no gibberlings, gnolls and dogs). If that could be done, that's a dream-come-through mod right there

Edited by Dakk, 06 February 2015 - 04:08 PM.