Time to reach Spellhold
#21
Posted 07 October 2003 - 06:00 PM
Of course, I had to cheat in the gold.
What quests are big money quests to speed up your rescuing time?
#22
Posted 08 October 2003 - 05:44 AM
What quests are big money quests to speed up your rescuing time?
Basically anything that doesn't require you to leave the city. If I don't waste any money on fancy new equipment, I'm ususally close to 15000 gp after my first major quest (usually the playhouse quest, but I suppose the Mae'var quest, the Unseeing Eye or a couple of smaller quests would do as well). If I really hurry, I can finish chapter two by the end of day two, and I suppose it could be done even quicker if you don't care about resting, healing or other trivial matters.
Of course, being level 8 or so and not having any equipment isn't a good idea if you want to deal with vampires, so I usually end up taking some more time. And I think it's a shame to miss the dream sequences, but I trust this mod will compensate for that just fine
JPS
Visit the Gibberlings Three!
#23
Posted 08 October 2003 - 07:22 AM
That usually brings me to, say, 10, 11, 12 pm at day One, and another 3 hours max to finish the Guild War quest. So at the dawn of the second day I?m already, usually, on the ship.
The bad thing about this tactic is that you start Chapter IV without good weapons (only what you get from the encounters in the streets wich are +1 top )
Thus it was that Rincewind,hurrying through the crowded, flare-lit evening bazaars of Morpork with the Luggage trundling behind him, jostled a tall dark figure, turned to deliver a few suitable curses, and beheld Death.
It had to be Death. No-one else went around with empty eye sockets and, of course, the scythe over one shoulder was another clue.
#24
Posted 08 October 2003 - 08:05 PM
#25 -Ghreyfain-
Posted 08 October 2003 - 09:17 PM
My suggestion is to have some sort of counter to track how many quests have been done. If the PC did enough quests to get 50,000 gold, for instance, they obviously don't have Imoen's best interests at heart, and should be dipped in giant vats of acid.
#26
Posted 08 October 2003 - 09:18 PM
Heh...i think the shortest anyone has ever done SoA in game-time is 9 days and 2 hours.What quests are big money quests to speed up your rescuing time?
Basically anything that doesn't require you to leave the city. If I don't waste any money on fancy new equipment, I'm ususally close to 15000 gp after my first major quest (usually the playhouse quest, but I suppose the Mae'var quest, the Unseeing Eye or a couple of smaller quests would do as well). If I really hurry, I can finish chapter two by the end of day two, and I suppose it could be done even quicker if you don't care about resting, healing or other trivial matters.
Of course, being level 8 or so and not having any equipment isn't a good idea if you want to deal with vampires, so I usually end up taking some more time. And I think it's a shame to miss the dream sequences, but I trust this mod will compensate for that just fine
JPS
#27
Posted 09 October 2003 - 02:26 AM
This isn't about best interests, I don't care about those. You may want to get her intact simply so you, and not Irenicus, can destroy her mind. This is irrelevant to me. The simple fact is that he is torturing her, and she is slipping away. The longer you take, the further she has gone.Can I take this opportunity to voice the opinion that I think timed quests suck? Didn't anyone else get annoyed in the underdark because of those horrible timers? I remember being trapped in the Illithid lair and having that pesky drow warp in because I had to rest after fighting pretty much every Illithid I met.
My suggestion is to have some sort of counter to track how many quests have been done. If the PC did enough quests to get 50,000 gold, for instance, they obviously don't have Imoen's best interests at heart, and should be dipped in giant vats of acid.
Good intentions are great, but you'll have to exercise a little thought about what quests you take and how far you travel. Time to work to save your sister. Time to decide whether your good alignment is really going to stop you breaking into that big tempting house, in an effort to earn more money so you can get to her faster.
Past: Ascension, Return to Windspear, Imoen Relationship, The Broken Hourglass
"Perfection has no deadline"
#28
Posted 09 October 2003 - 05:40 AM
#29
Posted 11 October 2003 - 09:22 PM
Thus it was that Rincewind,hurrying through the crowded, flare-lit evening bazaars of Morpork with the Luggage trundling behind him, jostled a tall dark figure, turned to deliver a few suitable curses, and beheld Death.
It had to be Death. No-one else went around with empty eye sockets and, of course, the scythe over one shoulder was another clue.
#30
Posted 11 October 2003 - 10:17 PM
Day 2 at 5 am was my time
Damn! I was this close to beating you, but then Baron Ployer showed up and made me waste a whole day on getting Jaheira back in shape. But I'll get you next time...
Well, on a more serious note ? while I like the idea of making time matter, the schedule shouldn't be too tight. If the players have to consider illegal ways of getting the money, there's a fair chance that they consider cheating as well, or at least taking advantage of quirks in the game.
(You could, for example, recruit Jan (or any other thief with good pickpocketing skills, but that would be... er... Jan), go to Mae'Var's guildhouse, buy three or four potions of master thievery from the storekeep and get all the money you'll ever need by stealing the rogue stone he is carrying, selling it back, stealing it again and so on. With Jan's pickpocket skill raised to 200%, there's no chance of failure (er... or that's what I've been told. I wouldn't do anything this cheesy, of course. Oh no. I'm a hard-core roleplayer myself. But it's kind of fun when you realise that there's an infinite number of +2 maces in that store...). )
I'm not suggesting that everyone would start cheating just to get to Imoen in time, but after the second or third time you come too late, it would probably seem a lot more tempting.
JPS
Visit the Gibberlings Three!
#31 -Ghreyfain-
Posted 12 October 2003 - 11:39 AM
That wasn't my point.The longer you take, the further she has gone.Can I take this opportunity to voice the opinion that I think timed quests suck? *snip*
Good intentions are great, but you'll have to exercise a little thought about what quests you take and how far you travel.
If both a veteran and a noob are both trying to get Imoen for sadistic means (or saintly. As you say, it doesn't matter), the timers could still make things messed up.
Now, both players want to get to Imoen as quick as possible so that they can inflict who knows what on her. The noob is also playing a mage and needs to rest after pretty much every battle. The quests he does are the circus tent and the slaver's quest, which is enough to get the 15,000 gold (even if it isn't, let's just pretend it is for this exampe, shall we?). But he had to rest after every semi-major fight and a few minor ones. This means he's taken 5 days so far.
The veteran player is being a berzerker with 19 in all the physical stats (from BG1). He only had to rest twice even though he did the Arnise Keep and Planar Sphere quests. So with travel time, even though he's been off on a wild jaunt all over the Amnish heartlands and even other planes of existence, he's only taken, say 32 hours.
Then there're the guild quests. Through some miracle they both do them in exactly the same amount of time in this example, just because I don't want to give more examples. 2 days each. That's 80 hours for the veteran, and 7 days for the noob.
Then the ten day sea voyage, 13 days for the vet, 17 for the noob. Oh, and what's this? Quitch set the Imoen-becomes-a-vegetable cut-off point at 14 days? Ah well, sucks to be a noob, even though he was trying to get to Imoen as fast as possible, even forsaking some merchants and their items so he could save up that 15k gold a bit faster.
#32
Posted 14 October 2003 - 09:29 AM
When we see the cutscenes between each chapter, I have personally always assumed that they take place in the present, not the past of the future. For example, the one we get when we start Chapter 2 shows us Irenicus and Imoen being delivered to Spellhold, which would happen at roughly this time. (Unless you take *very* long doing the circus quest.)
Chapter 3 starts when the player pays either Bodhi or the Shadow Thieves, and it shows Irenicus breaking out of his cell. At this point Imoen is still sound of mind, at least she is coherent enough when Irenicus approaches her.
Finally, chapter 4 starts when you actually leave for Spellhold. This cutscene shows us Irenicus working on removing Imoen's soul. She is in a bad shape now, but not catatonic like she is when you rescue her.
So, my point is this. Imagine a scenario where the player takes his time doing Chapter 2 quests, gathering XP and good weapons etc. Let's say he spends a month doing that, which would overshoot the margin you've set. However, as he finally leaves for Spellhold, he is shown a sane Imoen, albeit not a happy one. He might even have been shown the 'Irenicus talks to coherent Imoen' scene at the exact same time that you say is the limit for 'Imoen goes insane'.
I suppose it may be argued that the PC doesn't know about this time limit, and that is true, but I just felt I wanted to point out something that would make me fret a little while playing the mod.
#33
Posted 14 October 2003 - 12:31 PM
Then the ten day sea voyage, 13 days for the vet, 17 for the noob. Oh, and what's this? Quitch set the Imoen-becomes-a-vegetable cut-off point at 14 days? Ah well, sucks to be a noob, even though he was trying to get to Imoen as fast as possible, even forsaking some merchants and their items so he could save up that 15k gold a bit faster.
You're taking this too cut and dried, it won't be a case of Imoen is mad, Imoen is sane. The longer you take, the more far gone she'll be, and the harder it will be to get her back. I'm not going to have some insane cut-off point whereby you find Imoen is gone forever, just a timer to give you reason to get a move on (and if you take a stupid amount of time then she will be a pile of goo).
Think of it more as the difference between:
Imoen: Ghreyfain? You came here for me? (she grabs you in a bear hug of surprising strength). I was getting worried, and Irenicus, he... Well, now you're here everything will be alright, won't it, Ghreyfain?
and
Imoen: Who... who are you? Shadows, nothing but shadows. All is darkness... darkness, and a shadow in my mind. So dark. So cold... (her eyes appear devoid of feeling and gaze absently over your shoulder).
and
Imoen: (sitting on the floor, Imoen traces patterns on the stone with her blood stained fingers, torn nails scraping across the hard surface. A trail of dribble leads away from her pale lips).
So, my point is this. Imagine a scenario where the player takes his time doing Chapter 2 quests, gathering XP and good weapons etc. Let's say he spends a month doing that, which would overshoot the margin you've set. However, as he finally leaves for Spellhold, he is shown a sane Imoen, albeit not a happy one. He might even have been shown the 'Irenicus talks to coherent Imoen' scene at the exact same time that you say is the limit for 'Imoen goes insane'.
Interesting point.
Past: Ascension, Return to Windspear, Imoen Relationship, The Broken Hourglass
"Perfection has no deadline"
#34 -guest-
Posted 16 December 2003 - 01:23 PM
#35
Posted 17 December 2003 - 01:46 AM
Past: Ascension, Return to Windspear, Imoen Relationship, The Broken Hourglass
"Perfection has no deadline"
#36 -Wraith-
Posted 07 May 2004 - 05:59 AM
During SoA there were two points in the game where the main plot 'paused' and allowed you to complete side quests, power up, romance an NPC, and other whatnot. Those two points were when your collecting the gold to save Imoen, and the other is when you're preparing for the final battle with Bodie. Because of the time limit, the first pause is effectively eliminated (unless you don't want to help her of course). What about the second? Also you mentioned that leaving her to rot a long time would be considered 'evil', would that affect your reputation (or your valor if you're using the reputation/valor mod)?
Thanks for listening, looking foreward to the end results.
#37
Posted 07 May 2004 - 07:49 AM
You will not be punished, rep wise, for not moving faster to help her. I have no reasonable way of knowing why or how you reached her when you did.
Edited by Quitch, 07 May 2004 - 07:49 AM.
Past: Ascension, Return to Windspear, Imoen Relationship, The Broken Hourglass
"Perfection has no deadline"
#38 -Wraith-
Posted 07 May 2004 - 08:26 AM
As long as Imoen is in Spellhold with Irenicus, her mental state will worsen.
Ah, so then am I correct to assume that after she is removed from Spellhold she will not deteriorate further. Meaning that the second big 'pause' (after emerging from the Underdark but before entering the elven city) is still intact and will allow you to complete all those lengthy side quests. Thank you for replying so quickly.
#39 -Guest-
Posted 07 May 2004 - 08:44 AM
The party may be be seriously underpowered for the Underdark and the second Bodhi battle if they rush to rescue Imoen ASAP, especially if they have other mods installed. Saying "Well then come back and do the Underdark quests later" is a cop-out; it requires the player to use out-of-character information to guide the character's decisions. That's the kind of weak role-playing that the Imoen time limit is meant to avoid. You might want to consider making the Beholder and Mindflayer lairs inaccessible until the party reaches a certain level, or giving an item reward for getting to Imoen early. Perhaps Irenicus found a large number of confiscated magic items in Spellhold, most of them potions and protective scrolls, including Protection from Magic (for the beholder city) and plenty of potions of genius and defense (for the mindflayers). He still hasn't sold off the equipment if you get to Imoen in under X amount of time, but if you take too long he found a buyer and the items are removed from the game (or show up in the hands of a merchant later in the game).
#40
Posted 07 May 2004 - 03:31 PM
This may depend very much on the actions of the player after Spellhold.As long as Imoen is in Spellhold with Irenicus, her mental state will worsen.
Ah, so then am I correct to assume that after she is removed from Spellhold she will not deteriorate further. Meaning that the second big 'pause' (after emerging from the Underdark but before entering the elven city) is still intact and will allow you to complete all those lengthy side quests. Thank you for replying so quickly.
First, I do support the idea of making getting to Imoen CHARNAME's top priority. However, one concern:
The party may be be seriously underpowered for the Underdark and the second Bodhi battle if they rush to rescue Imoen ASAP, especially if they have other mods installed. Saying "Well then come back and do the Underdark quests later" is a cop-out; it requires the player to use out-of-character information to guide the character's decisions. That's the kind of weak role-playing that the Imoen time limit is meant to avoid. You might want to consider making the Beholder and Mindflayer lairs inaccessible until the party reaches a certain level, or giving an item reward for getting to Imoen early. Perhaps Irenicus found a large number of confiscated magic items in Spellhold, most of them potions and protective scrolls, including Protection from Magic (for the beholder city) and plenty of potions of genius and defense (for the mindflayers). He still hasn't sold off the equipment if you get to Imoen in under X amount of time, but if you take too long he found a buyer and the items are removed from the game (or show up in the hands of a merchant later in the game).
Nonsense. It is out-of-character information that allows the player to buff up, complete a romance, buy new equipment, etc. Without knowing this were a game, no true friend would spend a month completing minor errand runs instead of dashing after their childhood friend.
You've got it arse about face.
Past: Ascension, Return to Windspear, Imoen Relationship, The Broken Hourglass
"Perfection has no deadline"