92 replies to this topic

[mickeyblueeyessj]

It's always taken me a while to go rescue Imoen simply for lack of money. The last time through, I went right after her out of CHateau Irenicus, stopping only to get Aerie, Tashia, and the Celestial Fury for my blade.

Of course, I had to cheat in the gold.

What quests are big money quests to speed up your rescuing time?

[JPS]

What quests are big money quests to speed up your rescuing time?

Basically anything that doesn't require you to leave the city. If I don't waste any money on fancy new equipment, I'm ususally close to 15000 gp after my first major quest (usually the playhouse quest, but I suppose the Mae'var quest, the Unseeing Eye or a couple of smaller quests would do as well). If I really hurry, I can finish chapter two by the end of day two, and I suppose it could be done even quicker if you don't care about resting, healing or other trivial matters.

Of course, being level 8 or so and not having any equipment isn't a good idea if you want to deal with vampires, so I usually end up taking some more time. And I think it's a shame to miss the dream sequences, but I trust this mod will compensate for that just fine

JPS

[cmyster]

I usually exit the dungeon at noon (with all normal NPCs), take the Mae?var quest, and don?t rest untill finishing the Mae?var quest.

That usually brings me to, say, 10, 11, 12 pm at day One, and another 3 hours max to finish the Guild War quest. So at the dawn of the second day I?m already, usually, on the ship.

The bad thing about this tactic is that you start Chapter IV without good weapons (only what you get from the encounters in the streets wich are +1 top )

[mickeyblueeyessj]

How do you get Mae'var's quest without talking to Renal first? And don't you need the key from Gaelen to get into the shadowthieves guildhall, which he only give you after you pay him the 15,000 gold?

[Jinnai]

What quests are big money quests to speed up your rescuing time?

Basically anything that doesn't require you to leave the city. If I don't waste any money on fancy new equipment, I'm ususally close to 15000 gp after my first major quest (usually the playhouse quest, but I suppose the Mae'var quest, the Unseeing Eye or a couple of smaller quests would do as well). If I really hurry, I can finish chapter two by the end of day two, and I suppose it could be done even quicker if you don't care about resting, healing or other trivial matters.

Of course, being level 8 or so and not having any equipment isn't a good idea if you want to deal with vampires, so I usually end up taking some more time. And I think it's a shame to miss the dream sequences, but I trust this mod will compensate for that just fine

JPS

Heh...i think the shortest anyone has ever done SoA in game-time is 9 days and 2 hours.

[Quitch]

Can I take this opportunity to voice the opinion that I think timed quests suck?  Didn't anyone else get annoyed in the underdark because of those horrible timers?  I remember being trapped in the Illithid lair and having that pesky drow warp in because I had to rest after fighting pretty much every Illithid I met.

My suggestion is to have some sort of counter to track how many quests have been done.  If the PC did enough quests to get 50,000 gold, for instance, they obviously don't have Imoen's best interests at heart, and should be dipped in giant vats of acid.

This isn't about best interests, I don't care about those. You may want to get her intact simply so you, and not Irenicus, can destroy her mind. This is irrelevant to me. The simple fact is that he is torturing her, and she is slipping away. The longer you take, the further she has gone.

Good intentions are great, but you'll have to exercise a little thought about what quests you take and how far you travel. Time to work to save your sister. Time to decide whether your good alignment is really going to stop you breaking into that big tempting house, in an effort to earn more money so you can get to her faster.

[Tancred]

In order to raise 15,000 gold, do the Circus Tent immediately after leaving Chateau Irenicus, then travel to the Slums to see Bayle. After that, try the Government District and pick up Jan. Then go to the Docks at the earliest opportunity and do the Shadow Thief quest. Clean out the Guildhouse, Mae'Var's house etc etc. There's all kinds of loot in there - especially in the pick-locks practice room. Plus, the thief quest is quick and easy. After that, you should easily have just over 15,000 before the second day dawns.

[cmyster]

mickyblueeyessj Its very easy, as long as you don?t do anything unimportant. Your job is straight forward. Get out, go after immy, Start chapter two, look for jobs close by, take the Ma?evar quest, go to sleep ?till 22:00-23:00 in the evening, finish the quest, pay the 15k, take the Guild war quest and presto you are on the dock talking with Haverian before sunrise (Day 2 at 5 am was my time). I did it only once and it killed me five times (Bodhi?s dungeon and Vampires with Immunity ) and brought me to the asylum with two +1 weapons and one +1 armor so I wouldn?t try that one again.

[JPS]

Day 2 at 5 am was my time

Damn! I was this close to beating you, but then Baron Ployer showed up and made me waste a whole day on getting Jaheira back in shape. But I'll get you next time...

Well, on a more serious note ? while I like the idea of making time matter, the schedule shouldn't be too tight. If the players have to consider illegal ways of getting the money, there's a fair chance that they consider cheating as well, or at least taking advantage of quirks in the game.

(You could, for example, recruit Jan (or any other thief with good pickpocketing skills, but that would be... er... Jan), go to Mae'Var's guildhouse, buy three or four potions of master thievery from the storekeep and get all the money you'll ever need by stealing the rogue stone he is carrying, selling it back, stealing it again and so on. With Jan's pickpocket skill raised to 200%, there's no chance of failure (er... or that's what I've been told. I wouldn't do anything this cheesy, of course. Oh no. I'm a hard-core roleplayer myself. But it's kind of fun when you realise that there's an infinite number of +2 maces in that store...). )

I'm not suggesting that everyone would start cheating just to get to Imoen in time, but after the second or third time you come too late, it would probably seem a lot more tempting.

JPS

[Laufey]

I had a thought about another possible complication regarding making Imoen into a vegetable if the player takes too long. I don't think it has been mentioned before, but if it has I apologize in advance.

When we see the cutscenes between each chapter, I have personally always assumed that they take place in the present, not the past of the future. For example, the one we get when we start Chapter 2 shows us Irenicus and Imoen being delivered to Spellhold, which would happen at roughly this time. (Unless you take *very* long doing the circus quest.)

Chapter 3 starts when the player pays either Bodhi or the Shadow Thieves, and it shows Irenicus breaking out of his cell. At this point Imoen is still sound of mind, at least she is coherent enough when Irenicus approaches her.

Finally, chapter 4 starts when you actually leave for Spellhold. This cutscene shows us Irenicus working on removing Imoen's soul. She is in a bad shape now, but not catatonic like she is when you rescue her.

So, my point is this. Imagine a scenario where the player takes his time doing Chapter 2 quests, gathering XP and good weapons etc. Let's say he spends a month doing that, which would overshoot the margin you've set. However, as he finally leaves for Spellhold, he is shown a sane Imoen, albeit not a happy one. He might even have been shown the 'Irenicus talks to coherent Imoen' scene at the exact same time that you say is the limit for 'Imoen goes insane'.

I suppose it may be argued that the PC doesn't know about this time limit, and that is true, but I just felt I wanted to point out something that would make me fret a little while playing the mod.

[Quitch]

Then the ten day sea voyage, 13 days for the vet, 17 for the noob. Oh, and what's this? Quitch set the Imoen-becomes-a-vegetable cut-off point at 14 days? Ah well, sucks to be a noob, even though he was trying to get to Imoen as fast as possible, even forsaking some merchants and their items so he could save up that 15k gold a bit faster.

You're taking this too cut and dried, it won't be a case of Imoen is mad, Imoen is sane. The longer you take, the more far gone she'll be, and the harder it will be to get her back. I'm not going to have some insane cut-off point whereby you find Imoen is gone forever, just a timer to give you reason to get a move on (and if you take a stupid amount of time then she will be a pile of goo).

Think of it more as the difference between:

Imoen: Ghreyfain? You came here for me? (she grabs you in a bear hug of surprising strength). I was getting worried, and Irenicus, he... Well, now you're here everything will be alright, won't it, Ghreyfain?

and

Imoen: Who... who are you? Shadows, nothing but shadows. All is darkness... darkness, and a shadow in my mind. So dark. So cold... (her eyes appear devoid of feeling and gaze absently over your shoulder).

and

Imoen: (sitting on the floor, Imoen traces patterns on the stone with her blood stained fingers, torn nails scraping across the hard surface. A trail of dribble leads away from her pale lips).

So, my point is this. Imagine a scenario where the player takes his time doing Chapter 2 quests, gathering XP and good weapons etc. Let's say he spends a month doing that, which would overshoot the margin you've set. However, as he finally leaves for Spellhold, he is shown a sane Imoen, albeit not a happy one. He might even have been shown the 'Irenicus talks to coherent Imoen' scene at the exact same time that you say is the limit for 'Imoen goes insane'.

Interesting point.

[Quitch]

The longer you take, the longer it will take to get her back. Take too long and you may lose her forever. When a mind is gone for too long, nothing can retrive it.

[Quitch]

As long as Imoen is in Spellhold with Irenicus, her mental state will worsen. It doesn't matter where you are or what you're doing, Imoen is suffering.

You will not be punished, rep wise, for not moving faster to help her. I have no reasonable way of knowing why or how you reached her when you did.

Edited by Quitch, 07 May 2004 - 07:49 AM.

[Quitch]

As long as Imoen is in Spellhold with Irenicus, her mental state will worsen.

Ah, so then am I correct to assume that after she is removed from Spellhold she will not deteriorate further. Meaning that the second big 'pause' (after emerging from the Underdark but before entering the elven city) is still intact and will allow you to complete all those lengthy side quests. Thank you for replying so quickly.

This may depend very much on the actions of the player after Spellhold.

  First, I do support the idea of making getting to Imoen CHARNAME's top priority. However, one concern:

The party may be be seriously underpowered for the Underdark and the second Bodhi battle if they rush to rescue Imoen ASAP, especially if they have other mods installed. Saying "Well then come back and do the Underdark quests later" is a cop-out; it requires the player to use out-of-character information to guide the character's decisions. That's the kind of weak role-playing that the Imoen time limit is meant to avoid. You might want to consider making the Beholder and Mindflayer lairs inaccessible until the party reaches a certain level, or giving an item reward for getting to Imoen early. Perhaps Irenicus found a large number of confiscated magic items in Spellhold, most of them potions and protective scrolls, including Protection from Magic (for the beholder city) and plenty of potions of genius and defense (for the mindflayers). He still hasn't sold off the equipment if you get to Imoen in under X amount of time, but if you take too long he found a buyer and the items are removed from the game (or show up in the hands of a merchant later in the game).

Nonsense. It is out-of-character information that allows the player to buff up, complete a romance, buy new equipment, etc. Without knowing this were a game, no true friend would spend a month completing minor errand runs instead of dashing after their childhood friend.

You've got it arse about face.