22 replies to this topic

[Paul Gargoyle]

First of all: I'm new to Spellhold, so welcome all. And, sorry for any mistakes, I'm from Poland, and I'm still learning, As such, pointing my spelling and/or gramatic mistakes will be really welcome:).

So, now the idea:
Basic information:
Name: Aen Aenis (taken from the "Return from the Stars", sci-fi book by S. Lem)
Race: Elf (yes, I'm elfophilic:P)
Kit: I'm not certain, but rather bard or thief...
Aligment: Chaotic or Neutral Good
Stats: Average STR, CON and CHA, decent AGI, substantial INT and WIS

Who is Aen?
Most importantly, a historian. She is absolutly obsesed with history of Faerun, and as such, she knows it really great. Her knowledge can have a practical usage, for she can easly recognioze nearly any artifact and tell something about it.

Her character:
At first glance, she is an extremly self-confident cynic, but it is a msk, nothing more. Aen is good-hearted women, even is she would not ever admit it. Funny thing, she played cynic for so long, that for now she belives, that she is one, even if she simply cant act like true cynic.
She makes no secret of her past, and is very talkative, asked, she will answer, if she can.
Aen is extrem optimist beliving that evry fight can be won, and any obstacle moved from her way just by sheer determination.

Edited by Paul Gargoyle, 06 February 2009 - 02:08 PM.

[Azkyroth]

Immediate first impression: you realize her name can be mangled into something that sounds like "an anus" spoken with an accent, right? x.x (And that several Bioware NPCs and probably some mod ones too would do exactly that.)

The rest of the concept sounds okay but needs fleshing out.

[Jenne]

Well, I like the name, and I believe it should be read more like Ah-en Ah-enis than an anus. Nevertheless, it sounds to me more like a male name than female.

As for class and kit, I think she should definitely be a bard (what does thieving have to do with history?). The Luxleys mod by Feuille and Miss Sakaki had a bard kit which would suit her well - the Playwright. I'm sure they will let you use their kit if you ask them.

I don't think she should have good, even decent dexterity - if she is a historian, she had probably spent a long time in the library, which IMHO doesn't do good things to one's fitness

Her character looks interesting, but as Azkyroth said, it needs some fleshing out. Also, it isn't very usual for people to be both cynical and optimistic. Most cynics are a very pesimistic people, even if they are just pretending it.

[Paul Gargoyle]

Here's some more info:

How I imagine her stats:
STR: 9
AGI: 12 (she is an elf, after all!)
CON: 10
INT: 17
WIS: 18
CHA: 11

Biography:
Born in rather wealthy Athkatlan elves family, her upbringing was not harsh at all. Even as a child, her intellect and learning capabilities was remarkable. Everything looked like, that she is going to become an arcanist of substantial skills. As such, her father sent her to Sundelsar, where she was meant to learn from famous mages of this hidden city. However, as a gift from one her family friends, she received "An Introduction to History of Faerun", and because of that discoverd, that her true passion lies in discovering secrets of the past times. At first, her father was somehow angry, that she wanted to study history instead of much more profitable magic, but after many hours spent on arguing, he agreed to allow her to study past, not magic, but still in Sundelsar. Now, after years of study, she comes back to her home city.

Personal items:
No personal weapons, even though she is skilled in using daggers, but she always carry at least few books about history (suprise!;p) and philosophy.

More on her character:
Talking with Aen is hard job, if you are not very educated, for she is making references to the past in nearly evry sentence, and sees nothing unnatural in it. Similarly, no matter about what topic will you want to discuss with her, there is good chance, that you will end up listing about some historical events. Hence her low charisma, even though that she rather pretty.
She is also an author, and is often found writing legend-like novels. Also, she loves poetry, and can recite good deal of famous poems.
True knowledge is what she really respects, even if it has nothing to do with past. She is also fascinated with people, who devoted their lives to perfect certain ability, and are able to sacrifice a lot to gain true maestry in it.
There is one thing that she deeply hates- complaining. She understands that life is hard, but view it as an additional challenge, not a drawback. For her, people who suffer problems and instead of trying to somehow deal with them keep complaining are pathetic.
About her private life, she as only one tiny secret. During her studies in Sundlesar, she discovered that she is mild sado-masochist. (Yes, I know, strange idea, but we have so many NPC which are lesbian or gay, so why not?)

Where to find her:
Athkatlan Slaver's Gulid. Well, going back to Athkatla she was unlucky enough to run into slavers and draw their attention. And, not being able to defend herself, she quickly ended up awaiting to be sold into some not-very-interesting place...

Also, it isn't very usual for people to be both cynical and optimistic. Most cynics are a very pesimistic people, even if they are just pretending it.

Yeah, that's true, but, as I said, her cynicism is untrue

And, BTW, I found this portrait some time ago on Elfwood.com, and I think it suits Aen well:

Edited by Paul Gargoyle, 07 February 2009 - 01:07 PM.

[Thanatos.]

Sounds more like a Mage to me.

[theacefes]

With INT and WIS at 17 and 18, she would be the smartest person in the world. Maybe lower those stats a little?

[Azkyroth]

Here's some more info:

How I imagine her stats:
STR: 9
AGI: 12 (she is an elf, after all!)
CON: 10
INT: 17
WIS: 18
CHA: 11

Seems reasonably balanced, but the way you describe her, I'd be interested in seeing the rationale for such a high WIS - as a character trait, it's not generally held to be something that can be gained readily from books.

Biography:
Born in rather wealthy Athkatlan elves family, her upbringing was not harsh at all. Even as a child, her intellect and learning capabilities was remarkable. Everything looked like, that she is going to become an arcanist of substantial skills. As such, her father sent her to Sundelsar, where she was meant to learn from famous mages of this hidden city. However, as a gift from one her family friends, she received "An Introduction to History of Faerun", and because of that discoverd, that her true passion lies in discovering secrets of the past times. At first, her father was somehow angry, that she wanted to study history instead of much more profitable magic, but after many hours spent on arguing, he agreed to allow her to study past, not magic, but still in Sundelsar. Now, after years of study, she comes back to her home city.

Personal items:
No personal weapons, even though she is skilled in using daggers, but she always carry at least few books about history (suprise!;p) and philosophy.

More on her character:
Talking with Aen is hard job, if you are not very educated, for she is making references to the past in nearly evry sentence, and sees nothing unnatural in it. Similarly, no matter about what topic will you want to discuss with her, there is good chance, that you will end up listing about some historical events. Hence her low charisma, even though that she rather pretty.
She is also an author, and is often found writing legend-like novels. Also, she loves poetry, and can recite good deal of famous poems.
True knowledge is what she really respects, even if it has nothing to do with past. She is also fascinated with people, who devoted their lives to perfect certain ability, and are able to sacrifice a lot to gain true maestry in it.
There is one thing that she deeply hates- complaining. She understands that life is hard, but view it as an additional challenge, not a drawback. For her, people who suffer problems and instead of trying to somehow deal with them keep complaining are pathetic.

All this is fine; she and Arkalian will get along well, I suspect.

About her private life, she as only one tiny secret. During her studies in Sundlesar, she discovered that she is mild sado-masochist. (Yes, I know, strange idea, but we have so many NPC which are lesbian or gay, so why not?)

I can't help wondering what she was studying that lead her to that discovery.

There's nothing wrong with writing her character this way, but if you're serious about this (and if you aren't, don't do it), I strongly advise you take two and a half precautions. First, DON'T make it a gimmick or make it the focus of her character the way, say, Chloe's lesbianism was for her. Second, DON'T rely on stereotypes or mainstream fictional depictions in order to figure out how to portray her interests; I would suggest that if you don't have some personal experience with BDSM, you spend some time talking with intelligent people who do (I can recommend a few). And, in particular, try to work out a pretty detailed idea of exactly what areas of BDSM-type activities and interactions appeal to her and try to get a general sense of why (IE, what it "feels like" that appeals to her in a way vanilla sex doesn't).

[EDIT]If you're planning to characterize her this way, please tell me you're at least familiar enough with the relevant concepts that what I just said makes sense. O.o[/EDIT]

Where to find her:
Athkatlan Slaver's Gulid. Well, going back to Athkatla she was unlucky enough to run into slavers and draw their attention. And, not being able to defend herself, she quickly ended up awaiting to be sold into some not-very-interesting place...

Also, it isn't very usual for people to be both cynical and optimistic. Most cynics are a very pesimistic people, even if they are just pretending it.

Yeah, that's true, but, as I said, her cynicism is untrue

"Some will tell you that 'a cynic is a person who understands the cost of everything and the value of nothing.' In reality, 'cynic' is an epithet used to dismiss those who understand that value can be finite, costs actually exist, and the phrase 'too good to be true' is logically coherent."

And, BTW, I found this portrait some time ago on Elfwood.com, and I think it suits Aen well:

It may suit her, but it's a poor fit with the style of the BG2 portraits generally. There are a handful of highly skilled portrait artists on here, and I remember less than half of their names, so I won't do the others a disservice by listing the ones I recall. I'd check out the resource request forums and see if you can get someone to take this concept and rework it in a more BG2-consistent fashion, personally.

Edited by Azkyroth, 07 February 2009 - 11:52 PM.

[Paul Gargoyle]

Thx for feedback!
Her stats:
Well, she is meant to be one of the smartest persons around:-). But well, changing INT value to 18 and WIS to 16/15 seems more logical.

And, one thing- my vision of elves is tainted by the influence of "The Witcher" PnP, which describes elves as decadent and hedonistic at best. Hence sado-masochistic idea. Stupid one. So forget about it, okay?

"Some will tell you that 'a cynic is a person who understands the cost of everything and the value of nothing.' In reality, 'cynic' is an epithet used to dismiss those who understand that value can be finite, costs actually exist, and the phrase 'too good to be true' is logically coherent."

I disagree. What you are talking about sounds more like a wise pragmatism, not a cynicism, which is not believing in existence of higher emotions, as well as believing that only thing that drives people is their own profit.


Now, do you think, that Aen is interesting enough to consider creating her?

Edited by Paul Gargoyle, 08 February 2009 - 03:18 AM.

[berelinde]

Gotta say that I read it and think "Oh, great. Another elf. And she fits the stereotype, so why not?"

I can't help it. I'm allergic to elves. They're always the bestest and the brightest, and god help anybody who doesn't agree.

You're going into this with player preconceptions. Are you ready for that? Can you make her something other than "just another elf?"

If so, keep posting!

[Azkyroth]

Well, she is meant to be one of the smartest persons around:-). But well, changing INT value to 18 and WIS to 16/15 seems more logical.

It would. If she's spent most of her time studying rather than out in the real world interacting with people and situations and learning from those experiences, though, I think there's an argument for a lower WIS score still - from your description of her background I would argue for 10-12, personally, depending on her personality. For comparison, Arkalian is also one of the smartest people around, but she's had years of practical experience on the road and figuring people out, and her INT/WIS are 18/15 (I conceptualized Wisdom as being composed of Insight, Willpower, and Prudence, and observed that her writing dictated a substantial hit to the last category).

And, one thing- my vision of elves is tainted by the influence of "The Witcher" PnP, which describes elves are decadent and hedonistic at best. Hence sado-masochistic idea. Stupid one. So forget about it, okay?

It would be interesting if well done. It's not a good choice for a throwaway trait, you're right.

Now, do you think, that Aen is interesting enough to consider creating her?

I think it would be a worthwhile project and if you're interested in creating her I can provide some advice, instruction, writing feedback, and possibly files like items and spells if they're relatively limited in scope and you don't mind my well-documented issues with deadlines.

[Paul Gargoyle]

I can't help it. I'm allergic to elves. They're always the bestest and the brightest, and god help anybody who doesn't agree.

I don't know Faerun well, in fact, I'm allergic to D'n'D PnP. As such, my vision of elves came from Sapkowski books, where they are bright and very intelligent but dying and bitter race of those, who could not fit into world of humans.

Well, as about her wisdom- it came from the understanding, that history is not a collection of facts, but a process, shaped by every single act, and by knowing past, we are able to fully understand today and try to predict tomorrow.

About making her- I have no experience in modding at all. Of course, I can try to learn, but by now, all that I can give is an idea and couple of dialogues.

Edited by Paul Gargoyle, 08 February 2009 - 03:13 AM.

[witya]

Well, as about her wisdom- it came from the understanding, that history is not a collection of facts, but a process, shaped by every single act, and by knowing past, we are able to fully understand today and try to predict tomorrow.

"Wisdom describes a character?s willpower, common sense, perception, and intuition. While Intelligence represents one?s ability to analyze information, Wisdom represents being in tune with and aware of one?s surroundings."

Sorry for being a nitpicker, but wisdom is not what you describe, it's more like intelligence. As a suggestion I would say, first lay down the personality and story and after that decide on the stats. ^^

And btw, welcome and good luck for your mod! ^^

[Paul Gargoyle]

After some consideration, I must agree with you. Even if my vision about what does the wisdom describes is different than yours, I think that we all agree, that wisdom is not innate, but gained with life experience, and Aen, being rather young as for an elf do not have much of it. As such, her WIS stat should be around 13/14 to show, that she has a potential but for now, she must still grow up a bit, see more world to become truly wise.

Edited by Paul Gargoyle, 08 February 2009 - 07:08 AM.

[DDV]

...you realize her name can be mangled into something that sounds like "an anus" spoken with an accent, right? x.x (And that several Bioware NPCs and probably some mod ones too would do exactly that.)...

That realisation makes taking this NPC seriously difficult.

[theacefes]

Here's the reality of it, regardless of what the stats, background, or anything else is.

If you finish this mod and get it released, you will by default gain fans simply because the thing got finished and released. This is a huge accomplishment still after years of IE modding. Anyone with an NPC idea (or any other mod idea, but the NPCs seem to get a lot of attention) that can not only come up with the idea but get a finished product out will have gained respect by a lot of people here.

Sure, you'll have critics and you will have people who say that the mod sucks, but you'll get a fanbase regardless, plus you'll have the feeling of satisfaction that you made something that other people can enjoy.

But for all this to happen, you have to finish the mod. Which means you will need to code it, otherwise it's nothing more than a fanfic.

[Paul Gargoyle]

I have finnaly started working on Aen (coding learninig was added to it for free;P). And here is the one of dialouges that I wrote.

Aen Aenis: So, what can you tell me of Avariels?
Aeire: A lot! What you need to know frist, is that our people value freedom above anything else...
Aen Aenis: No, I do know your customs enough, I want to hear about Avariels history.
Aerie: History? There is no book about it?
Aen Aenis: Sadly, not a single one. What is the problem, Aerie? You are not going to tell, that you don't know your kind history?
Aerie: W-Well, actually I do...
Aen Aenis: You must be joking.
Aerie: Aen, not evrybody have to share your passion! Past times never truly interested me!
Aen Aenis: I won't be mean and make comment on it. Anyway, ther must be something that you can recall... any, even tiny, fact.
Aerie: Well, I remember that Avariels was nearly extinct after a war against dragons long time ago.
Aen Aenis: That's interesting. Any more details? Maybe you remember exectly when it has happend?
Aerie: I guess that before the First Flowering... But I'm not quite sure.
Aen Aenis: Thanks! There must be some references to it in "Days before". No I only need to go and check it.
Aerie: Glad to be helpful.

Feedback really welcome!

Edited by Paul Gargoyle, 13 February 2009 - 02:03 AM.

[Eleima]

I have finally started working on Aen (coding learning was added to it for free;P). And here is the one of dialogs that I wrote.

Aen Aenis: So, what can you tell me of Avariels?
Aeire: A lot! What you need to know first, is that our people value freedom above anything else...
Aen Aenis: No, I do know your customs enough (perhaps, "well enough"), I want to hear about Avariel history.
Aerie: History? There is no book about it?
Aen Aenis: Sadly, not a single one. What is the problem, Aerie? You are not going to tell [missing word: me], that you don't know your kind history?
Aerie: W-Well, actually I do...
Aen Aenis: You must be joking.
Aerie: Aen, not everybody has to share your passion! Past times never truly interested me!
Aen Aenis: I won't be mean and make comment on it. Anyway, there must be something that you can recall... any, even tiny, fact.
Aerie: Well, I remember that Avariels became nearly extinct after a war against dragons long time ago.
Aen Aenis: That's interesting. Any more details? Maybe you remember exactly when it happened?
Aerie: I guess that before the First Flowering... But I'm not quite sure.
Aen Aenis: Thanks! There must be some references to it in "Days Before". Now I only need to go and check it.
Aerie: Glad to be helpful.

Feedback really welcome!

This might seem a bit harsh, but if you're going to submit a dialog for feedback, at least run it through the spell checker. I've taken the liberty to correct the spelling mistakes and grammar errors I spotted using bold. I've also used italics to indicate sentence that come across as awkward and should be reworked. I understand that English is not your first language, but it makes for an awkward read which doesn't really flow. Perhaps writing in your native tongue and then having it translated would be easier?
Also, I thought that Aerie doesn't seem very much in character. She doesn't give the impression of the hesitant, shy young elf I've come to be familiar with. But perhaps this is a dialog meant to take place later in the game? Once she's become more assertive?
Anyways, there's my two cents for now. Not much of a contribution, I know, but I hope it helps! Good luck, and keep at it!

[Azkyroth]

To be fair, most of the mistakes are English grammar, and 60+% of the "grammar checker" suggestions in Word or the like are emphatically wrong.

[Paul Gargoyle]

Thx for your advices Eleima. But, sadly, I have no spell checker currently.

Perhaps writing in your native tongue and then having it translated would be easier?

I don't think so. Writing in polish, I tend to use REALLY complicated grammatical structures, and translating them would be more than troublesome. Also, I treat writing those dialogues as a form of learning. And learning was not meant to be easy, so I will not take the easier road:P.

[Eleima]

To be fair, most of the mistakes are English grammar, and 60+% of the "grammar checker" suggestions in Word or the like are emphatically wrong.

Completely true, but a quick run through a spell checker usually allows you to weed out typos and obvious spelling mistakes. At least, that's what I did before proofreading my Xan translation. All I'm saying is that people are less inclined to proofread and give feedback if the initial text is full of spelling mistakes and typos. My teachers in high school used to say that when they had to look through students' papers, a multitude of spelling mistakes would inevitably put them in a foul mood! Spelling, grammar and penmanship count!!

Thx for your advices Eleima. But, sadly, I have no spell checker currently.

I usually use Open Office for all my text editing needs: it's free, and it has spell checkers for virtually every language on this Earth (except maybe Esperanto? ). And no worries, advice is free! (Although I'm not sure how contributive mine is.)
Anyways, good luck with your endeavor!!