34 replies to this topic

[Qwinn]

Since I just did a bunch of work on bestiary entries, I figured why not ask.

The original Cilantro's Restoration Pack restored a bestiary entry for "alu-fiend". The text actually does exist in the original dialogue file:

~The child of a tanar'ri and a human father, the alu-fiend is akin to a succubus in appearance. Some of them try to repress the evil within them; far more attempt to outdo their fiendish forebears in sheer evil and cruelty. You should know better than to trust a tanar'ri.~

There is, in fact, precisely one alu-fiend in the game, Vrischika. I decided not to do this restoration because the game files are missing one crucial component of a bestiary entry - original artwork for the portrait. Cilantro just gave the "Upper Class Townie" portrait to his restored Alu-Fiend entry, but that portrait really doesn't look anything like what an alu-fiend should.

If anyone wants to take a crack at it, and wants to draw up a portrait for Vrischika, I think that would be pretty cool and I'd add it as its own UB component, with major credit given for the artwork, of course, using that portrait and applying the above bestiary entry to it.

Here's her introductory description during dialogue:

This sharp-featured woman's appearance is attractive though somewhat disturbing, with her blue-black skin and bright yellow eyes. As she examines you, a small pair of bat-like wings unfold from her back, then seem to settle back into her skin.

Note, I'm going to be pretty damn picky about it. It will need to be in the same 3-D artistic style (EDIT: repeat, style, they are 2D pics, they are just drawn in a style that evokes 3D) as the rest of the bestiary portraits. It should resemble Vrischika's sprite as much as possible... but since she uses the female Aasimar sprite, all that tells us is that she's got dark blue skin, and has gray clothing and hair.

I have no artistic skill whatsoever, but I suspect the best results would come from taking the Aasimar portrait and tweaking it, recoloring it as appropriate and possibly adding the small wings noted in her description. Changing the background so that it looks like Vrischika's shop rather than an outdoor shot of the Clerk's Ward would then make it truly distinct, and in line with the original game's style.

If anyone's up to the challenge, good luck!, and can't wait to see what people come up with

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 13 January 2009 - 01:51 PM.

[Qwinn]

Just as an added note, I went through her dialogue looking for any other hints as to her appearance. The only other information given not already contained in the above quotes is that her lips are "full" and "black".

Qwinn

[Daulmakan]

Here's an alu-fiend drawing for further reference:

[Qwinn]

Giving this a bump, hoping more people will see it and someone will be inclined to take a crack at it

If you need me to supply the .bmp file of the Aasimar portrait or something, just let me know.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 12 January 2009 - 11:03 AM.

[Qwinn]

Wouldn't you want a 3D Deionarra portrait too? IMO the one that was introduced was pretty damn poor 2D line art (obviously).

Hmm? The Deionarra pic, as far as I know, -is- in the 3D style, it's the one that shipped with the original game. Are you referring to the "more correct" Deionarra picture that was included in Cilantro's Restoration Pack? I didn't implement that. either, precisely for that reason.

You best option maybe to go to some specialized forum like deviant art and making it a "competition".

Yeah, I probably should. I'm a bit busy atm though with TBH work. If no one responds with "I'm gonna give it a try" in a week or two, I'll expand my search a bit more.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 13 January 2009 - 01:01 PM.

[Qwinn]

*nod nod* Yeah, there is an original portrait for her. Works fine too, didn't need to be tweaked or anything to come up. I honestly have no idea what the Restoration Pack meant by calling the replacement pic "more correct".

Actually, beyond the fact that it was line art that conflicted sharply with the style of the remaining bestiary pictures, the other reason I didn't include it was because I'd have had no idea at all who to attribute it to. Stand-alone, I don't think it's a bad drawing. It just seemed an arbitrary replacement and didn't fit the game's native style.

That said, it just occurred to me that I'm probably scaring everybody away from this by referring to the original art as 3D.

I take it back. That was sloppy on my part. The bestiary pictures are NOT actually 3D. As far as I can tell, they are normal 2D bitmaps. It's just the -style- that comes across as 3D.

Hopefully anyone who was scared away by me referring to it as 3D will see that and come back.... *gulp*

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 13 January 2009 - 01:52 PM.

[MaeBe]

I thought that both the character sprites and backgrounds in infinity engine games come from 3d models placed in a perspective, and the the portraits in torment are touched up forms of those 3d originals.

That is, now that i think about it, pretty mind boggling if true.

Actually, it IS true, and not mind boggling at all. They are indeed 3d models, first modelled, and then rendered to portraits AND to sprites. 3d does not necessarily need to by dynamic.

Back to the topic... I have finished replaying Torment with UB just yesterday (thanks a lot to everyone involved!), and figured I could give something back. So here is the collage of Vrischika, based on aasimar. I did not add the wings, because they are not on a sprite, and I tried not to take any artistic liberties with her. Let's consider them... folded, I guess.

I have put her on a background that resembles her shop, but in reality she looks better on your standard Sigil background - the lights in the original scene were set up to emulate open space, and the contrast on her face is just too strong for any indoors environment.

[Qwinn]

Maebe:

AWESOME! Great work! I like them quite a lot, and yes, I'd be delighted to make a Restored Alu-Fiend Journal Entry component using one of those.

I get what you're saying about the background/contrast, but I still prefer the one with the shop background. I think most journal entries are given a background resembling where you actually meet them fairly consistently, with few exceptions. Seeing her outside when you never see her outside in game just feels too different to me. Specially when the shop background you picked out and put her on looks like a pretty good choice to me. And really, I don't think the contrast in the shop pic is bad at all. Her skin tone on her sprite contrasts just as much, I think.

Also, in actuality it won't be a "named" picture. Vrischika's name isn't anywhere in the entry. Putting her outside would be odd, in that I could picture people looking around outside saying "where did I meet one of those?"

I'd be happy to hear other opinions, though... if lots of other people say they prefer the outdoor to indoor pic, I can certainly have my mind changed.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 31 January 2009 - 01:26 PM.

[scient]

Very nice work MaeBe! My vote would be for the in shop one since like you said that's where you meet her.

[Tolknaz]

WOW, nice pics! I actually like the second pic slightly better, but i agree that the first one makes more sense in the context.

[Shambelle]

Nice pics...
The second one is better, I think.
The background-forground/contrast is too strong on the first, you really see the limits of the forground.
The lights are too strong to be indoor.

I think most journal entries are given a background resembling where you actually meet them fairly consistently, with few exceptions. Seeing her outside when you never see her outside in game just feels too different to me.

Not, really...
For the Sigilian citizens, the background correspond to upper or lower Sigil (night or day)...
Even for those that you can never see outside...
Example: JRLKNKM and JRGODKN image files

The exceptions are important NPC (like Lothar), the Dustmen (you discover the Mortuary before Sigil) and your followers (the background is the

Spoiler

Nameless One's Tomb

).
Some outerplanar being (like modrons or baatezu) have their own background.

Specially when the shop background you picked out and put her on looks like a pretty good choice to me.

The background is the

Spoiler

Nameless One's Tomb

, even if tweaked, you recognize it. I don't think it is a good choice...

Also, in actuality it won't be a "named" picture. Vrischika's name isn't anywhere in the entry. Putting her outside would be odd, in that I could picture people looking around outside saying "where did I meet one of those?"

It's not as if Vrischika search to hide this fact. It's clearly explained in the game.
When you ask what she is, she tells she's "An alu-fiend... a half-demon."
Fall-from-Grace describes Vrischika as an Alu-Fiend, Nordom also.
Nowhere else do you see this expression.
No other NPC is called an Alu-Fiend.
So in the game, Vrischika=Alu-Fiend and the entry is associated with Vrischika even if not named.

Putting her outside wouldn't be odd, being a Sigilian inhabitant (see before) and she's clearly described as an Alu-Fiend.
Someone asking "where did I meet one of those?" hasn't talked to her and asked what is 'Baby Oil'.

Edit: The eyes have perhaps not enough yellow...

Edited by Shambelle, 01 February 2009 - 10:15 AM.

[Qwinn]

Alright, given artist's preference and everyone else's comments, I'll probably implement the second picture.

I gotta agree that on second review the

Spoiler

TNO's Tomb

background isn't really any more appropriate than the outdoors one. I still do wish there were a better choice for a "shop" background, and the contrast issues could be dealt with (not just for contextual reasons but to differentiate it more from the Assimar pic, which it's going to be right next to alphabetically), but barring that happening, I'll go with the second outdoors pic.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 10 February 2009 - 09:52 PM.

[Qwinn]

Oh, Maebe, if you could possibly send me the pic as a .BMP to my email (pescalona@verizon.net) with the same dimensions and stuff as an original journal pic (with the borders and all), I'd really appreciate it No major rush, take your time if you want to make any changes or anything, nowhere near release of the next version. Just thought I'd mention I will need that eventually.

BTW, looking at the two pics, I did notice that you did make a lot of small touches to clothing and stuff to differentiate it somewhat from the original Aasimar pic, nice work.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 12 February 2009 - 02:53 AM.

[Leila]

I've made my own contribution to this, incorporating some of Maebe's work as well (I really hope they don't mind).



Should anything be changed?

[Qwinn]

EDIT: Never mind for now, I'd like to hear other people's opinions, so I'll withhold my own for the time being.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 07 June 2009 - 02:10 AM.

[ghostdog]

MMmmm, I have to say I love them both, the last pic by Leila is a bit more ... Vrischika. On the other hand Maebe's portraits are more like... Alu-Fiends , if you know what I mean. Maybe you could also make an entry of Vrischika as a noteble NPC? just a thought.

[Qwinn]

That's not an option, I'm afraid. For one thing, you can only have one bestiary entry per animation, and there is only one alu-fiend in the game. As for another, I only have one entry from the dialog.tlk to restore, as noted in the first post. The text for the Vrischika entry would have to be completely new material, not a restoration in any way. Not really interested in doing that.

Personally, I like Leila's version better. Coloring is more accurate to the description and the background is better, IMO. Still seeking other people's opinions though, so please, everyone chime in.

Qwinn