364 replies to this topic

[codhri]

Codhri, see this post:

http://www.shsforums...&...st&p=454211


If you want to know -why- you need to do this, read the rest of that thread, starting at post #13

Qwinn

Thanks for your reply, it fixed my problem

[Qwinn]

I am a Chinese player.Yesterday,I began to try the English version instead of the Chinese version and found a tiny bug.
When talking to Dhall,he said "This is where the dead are brought to be interred or cremated...(whole passage)."and there are some options below.The forth is"Sigil?".Dhall,however,have not mentioned "Sigil" yet.The question is illogic.
Though it seems to be a tiny mistake indeed.I wish this game can be more near to perfect.This mistake have no relation to fixpack for it also lied in 1.1 version.
My English is just so-so...I appreciate your terrifc work, I really enjoy this game with the WEIDU packs and hope it can be better.

I know it's been ages, but thought I'd address this. The poster is entirely correct, there is no reference at all to Sigil any time before this or anywhere else in Dhall's dialogue. I'm pretty sure Morte doesn't mention it either until you leave the Mortuary. It really is out of the blue. So basically, the only thing I could do would be to remove the question and answer altogether.

Thing is, there's a *lot* of issues like this all over the dialogue that I can't do anything about. For example, Vaxis, the fake zombie in the Mortuary. How do you know his name is Vaxis? He never tells you. That knowledge is in fact completely illogical. And there's nothing at all I can do about this, short of just creating dialogue where he tells you his name, which I'm not willing to do.

So, I tend to leave issues like this alone, unless the contradiction is pretty severe and fourth-wall breaking, or it affects gameplay. In the case of the "Sigil?" question to Dhall, well, I don't like removing dialogue, as I sorta see it as my mission to *restore* it. But, if you're reading this and you disagree and think I *should* simply remove such illogical questions where I can, let me know, and if enough people seem to agree, I'll do a poll on it.

So that you can render an informed opinion, the "Sigil?" question doesn't lead to anything else, it pretty much stands alone, and the Dhall response is "Torment is our fair city, Restless One." That's it. If you think that due to the illogic of it I should just remove that question and answer altogether, or not, let me know, I'm curious what people think.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 29 December 2009 - 02:00 AM.

[Qwinn]

Hmm, actually, Morte *does* mention Sigil in his restored UB dialogue. If you ask him about contracts, he says ""Yeah, don't it make you want to split bricks? Law makes Sigil spin, and you can't even empty your bladder without filling out one contract or another." But I don't want to base a decision on that, since not everyone will install that component.

I'm actually thinking a safe way to deal with this is to put a condition on your asking that question, a condition you probably won't be able to meet the first time you talk to him. There is a "Know_Sigil" variable, but it's not consistently set and you can easily know enough to ask about Sigil without that variable being positive. So I'm thinking, just require that the player has escaped the Mortuary out into the Hive before you can ask Dhall about it... after all, that's the same moment that you become able to ask Morte about Sigil. This way, you don't have the illogic of being able to ask about it before you'd likely have heard of it, but I'm not outright removing any dialogue either.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 29 December 2009 - 02:17 AM.

[Qwinn]

Hmmm. There is another option, actually... after reviewing it, I'm actually not all that bothered by the idea of doing a minimal dialogue change to solve the problem.

Here's what Dhall says when you're offered to ask about Sigil:

Dhall: ~"This is where the dead are brought to be interred or cremated. It is our responsibility as Dustmen to care for the dead, those who have left this shadow of life and walk the path to True Death." Dhall's voice drops in concern. "Your wounds must have exacted a heavy toll if you do not recognize this place. It is almost your home."~

In reply to that, you can ask about: "Shadow of Life?", "True Death?", "Dustmen?", "Sigil?" and "Wounds?". All except Sigil are referenced in Dhall's immediately preceding dialogue. I think it's pretty obvious, and an unobtrusive alteration, that Dhall's state should be:

~"This is where the dead of Sigil are brought to be interred or cremated. It is our responsibility as Dustmen to care for the dead, those who have left this shadow of life and walk the path to True Death." Dhall's voice drops in concern. "Your wounds must have exacted a heavy toll if you do not recognize this place. It is almost your home."~

This'd need to be added to the various translations, but heck, I could probably figure out how to add "of Sigil" easily enough on my own without having to bother everyone about it.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 29 December 2009 - 02:28 AM.

[ghostdog]

Go ahead, I say.

[Qwinn]

Yeah, I am. Actually this is impelling me to review the status of translations... better get that done first, to give our helpful translators time to go over what needs doing. Actually, I'm doing 90% of it, reconstructing what the translation should be from the existing translations of vanilla dialogue. But there's still a few lines that will need doing... and then I need to implement our new polish translation... this is gonna be a while.

Qwinn

[Qwinn]

The fact that you used an old savegame is almost certainly the cause of some of the issues. My mods do require starting the game from scratch.

Given that, I'll take a quick look at the issues you described and see if I can spot any issues, but I'm not going to dwell cause I could drive myself nuts trying to find a problem that just isn't there. Thanks for the report anyway.

Qwinn

[Qwinn]

1. You need to have gotten mage training from Mebbeth, not just talked to her. When you do so, she asks you why you want to be a mage. You are given 3 options. When talking to Ravel much later on, you will "Echo" your initial answer, and depending on what it was, you will get +1 INT, +1 WIS, or +1 INT -and- +1 WIS.

2. I can't see how this could happen from the code, so probably a save game issue. Note that you can rat her out to any Curst Guard, the Curst Captain, or to her husband... any of those will make her appear in the prison. If you didn't tell one of them, then she won't appear in the prison at all.

3. The official doesn't have any other dialogue. He -should- commence to leave the area shortly after you talk the mob down, at which point you shouldn't be able to talk to him anymore. You probably caught him in the short delay between your talking the mob down and that script activating. Nothing I can really do about that.

4. Urf. The check prevents a banter from starting if TNO can see an enemy. If you left him in safety while others were in battle... ugh. Not sure what I can do to fix that. I'll take a look. This should be pretty rare though.

5. This isn't a bug. Only TNO can use the scroll, and only if he is a level 12 or better mage.

6. This is definitely due to your reusing a save game from before installing the engine morale fixes.

7. You had to have talked to Deionarra previously, in the Mortuary. Other than that, just having her ring in your inventory should suffice. So, either you didn't talk to her in the mortuary, or you didn't have the ring, or the old save problem is at fault.

8. You have to have gotten certain information from the Good incarnation in order to be able to use the bronze sphere. It's not hard at all to miss the right dialogue path. And that path requires 17+ INT.

9. Yeah, sigh, they all "EscapeArea()" but that door is the closest exit so that's where they all go. I'd tell them to go somewhere else before disappearing, but this would require having them go -through- the party, and the path there is sufficiently narrow that the party could block it completely, which could do bad things. I agree it's lame but the only cure is worse than the disease, IMO.

I'm actually surprised you had as few problems as you did using an old save game.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 09 January 2010 - 05:34 PM.

[Qwinn]

3.
Well, he was just standing there, as a statue at least for 20-30 seconds, and after that I moved on, so I don't know what happened to him.

Bleah. This shouldn't have happened, but there's nothing I can really do about it. The same variable controls his leaving as the rest of the mob leaving, though from a different script. So if they left, he should have too, but for whatever reason his script didn't fire. Irritating.

4.
Actually, the guy I was sent forth was the Nameless One and he could definitely see the enemy. I was in middle of a battle against two larval worm.

Yeah, the See(NearestEnemyOf(Myself)) trigger can be occasionally flaky. I've seen it mess up a minority of the time. I actually think facing matters, if at any point you were facing away from the worms (which can happen easily) it might've snuck in there. I'll see if I can find a better trigger than See.

5.
Yes, but the walkthtough says: "If you put the wish scroll in Dak'kon's inventory, it will be red, but you can STILL right-click it and use it... and because Dak'kon cannot use the item, you get your wish, but the scroll isn't used up."
Yeah I know, I'm whining because I couldn't use an exploit

That exploit was fixed in Platter's Fixpack, and so it made it into my Fixpack in v1.0. That particular fix didn't get documented in the readme (I didn't document all of Platter's fixes, as I had plenty of my own to document and I figured pretty much everyone was already familiar with his), but its there.

Qwinn

[Qwinn]

Anytime, I appreciate the reports

Qwinn

[Qwinn]

Heh, I discovered the issues with See() by that exact same example, with Bish aggroing! Well, one time. I tried duplicating it like 7 or 8 times, though, and couldn't. It's fairly freakish for it to happen, but it's annoying that it does happen at all. I came to the same conclusion you did about why it was happening.

I like your suggestion for a fix to that particular example. Mind if I use it?

Oh, as for why it took so long for them to see you, here's part of the explanation:

IF
  See([PC])
THEN
  RESPONSE #20
    Enemy()
    SetInternal(Myself,INTERNAL_0,1)
    Attack(NearestEnemyOf(Myself))
  RESPONSE #80
    Face(0)
END

What this does is, each time this block runs, there's only a 20% chance of them aggroing. 20% chance it runs the first response block, 80% chance it runs the second response block that just sets his facing. Does BG not put probabilities into its response blocks like that?

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 10 January 2010 - 05:49 AM.