364 replies to this topic

[Qwinn]

Ok, kinda good news here:

In a previous post, I noted that TO had two different sets of combat taunts depending on your alignment. I thought at the time that they weren't fully implemented, and that you always got his "evil" taunts. This is in fact incorrect. The mechanism that plays the "good" versus "evil" taunts is and has always been working. Still, I was right about the bit where only the first five or so out of each set was playing... a change I made (in Fixpack 2.0, I think) did make all of them potentially play, rather than just the first five.

Interestingly, TO's alignment is dependent on TNO's - specifically, he'll always be the opposite. If your TNO is Lawful Good, then TO will be Chaotic Evil... and vice versa. I didn't know that.

There are a TON of sound files for TO that went unused. Damn shame, really. I will probably add some of them to the combat taunt sets in the Restored Sounds and Banters component.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 21 May 2009 - 11:38 AM.

[scient]

What happens if you're true neutral? I take it he is as well?

[Qwinn]

Yep, he's true neutral too. When he (and you) are neutral alignment on the good-evil axis, you get the same combat taunts that you get if you are good and he is evil.

Qwinn

[Qwinn]

Well, looking at the sound files, there's plenty of hints of many things that were planned but in the end just didn't get developed at all. The Fortress was clearly supposed to be much bigger and more detailed than it wound up being in the end. (Pretty sure MCA agreed to this in some interview, too.) It got slashed when they were forced to ship ahead of schedule.

It is clear that at some point, your party members were not supposed to be separated from you in the Fortress. Most of them have a "Negative Material Plane" sound, basically, one of the random voice-only one liners that are specific to particular areas in the game. You can't hear 'em cause you're never in a party with them outside of dialogue or combat. Some PC's even have multiple lines that would be appropriate as a Fortress Area Sound. TNO himself has three, but unfortunately the one they went with was the least interesting one: "This is it."

Some sound files do indicate that a TO-Deionarra encounter and face-off was planned. There are also sound files that suggest Annah would have confessed her feelings for you directly at some point within the Fortress. Numerous other sound files indicate that, at one point in the planning stages, some PC's were expected to be with you when you encountered your previous incarnations.

I'd be up for restoring content like this, except that unfortunately while the sound files are there, I can't find dialogue in the dialogue file that would support these conversations/exchanges. We've got a few scraps of sound files and nothing else, unfortunately. Possibly useful for someone who'd want to create a whole mod of new content revolving around 'em, but nothing that can fairly be called a restoration except in the loosest sense of the term.

At some point, when I am totally done with mapping the sound files to their use (or non-use) in game, I will post 'em publicly. In the meantime, Platter did a similar review and posted it online. His list isn't perfect - he missed some unused lines, and included a few that were actually used - but it should give you a good idea of what's there and what was planned for. Just go down to the Sounds section:

http://planescape.ou...t.org/unim.html


Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 21 May 2009 - 11:21 PM.

[Qwinn]

PS: If anyone is aware of a weidu command or other tool that would export the dialog.tlk file -minus- all strings that are actually used by a game file (primarily .DLG, .BCS and .CRE files), that would actually be really helpful in finding any buried dialogue I may be unaware of.

I've reviewed all the DLG files so much by now that I really don't think I could've missed anything sizable or significant in them. But is it possible there's some cool unused dialogue bits within the dialog.tlk that aren't actually used by any .DLG files that I never noticed among the 68,000 entries? Absolutely.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 21 May 2009 - 11:33 PM.

[Qwinn]

When you return to Fhjull from the Pillar, he asks you (with soundfile) "Feh, so you have returned. Did the pillar answer your insipid questions?" It is clearly meant that you were only supposed to get that line once, though, and if you left conversation and talked to him again you were supposed to get "Argh, what?? WHAT?!" (also with soundfile). The variable that was supposed to track that was never getting set, though, and it was thus impossible to ever reach that dialogue state - you would instead get the "Feh, so you have returned" line forever. Adding variable set. This effectively restores a previously unheard voiced line by Fhjull. This goes in the Fixpack.

Also: once again requesting opinion from everyone: When you leave Fhjull for the last time (peacefully), he says two lines: "Feh! No matter!" and then "Something familiar about that one." There's good reason to believe those lines were reversed... the files are numbered FFT063 and FFT062, respectively. -Usually-, but not -always- (I'd guess roughly 80-90% of the time), the file numbering sequence does match the order they're supposed to play in. I wouldn't switch 'em just based on that... but, honestly, I think it also does make more sense in the 062-063 order, and it strikes me that it was probably an error. What say you all?

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 22 May 2009 - 10:32 PM.

[Qwinn]

Cool, thanks for yer thoughts Spiff. I am leaning strongly towards the change, yeah.

And while working on it, found out that in the subtitled cutscenes component, you could get the "Dialogue pops up last item you talked to instead of proper cutscene" bug on those lines leaving Fhjull's place. Bah. Fixed it, and reviewed all the other subtitled cutscenes. Should hopefully be sorted for good now. (Heh. Yeah right.)

Qwinn

[Qwinn]

Okay, here's another couple things for 4.0, regarding Morte and his Litany of Curses.

Issue 1: Morte has 24 different voiced taunts that he'll randomly say when you do Litany of Curses. Here's the list. The bolded one is the only one out of this list that never actually plays, which is a real shame cause it's a good one. (Highlight to read, wouldn't wanna spoil

# MRT314B: "You filthy stinkards."
# MRT315: "Imbecile!"
# MRT316: "You father of trolls!"
# MRT317: "You poxy bastard."
# MRT318: "Stupid yabbo!"
# MRT319: "You dog's body!"
# MRT320: "Aw, squit."
# MRT321: "Slattern!"
# MRT322: "Your sheer ugliness stabs pain into my eyes."
# MRT322AL: "You know, if I gotta slam my eyeballs against you one more second I'm gonna puke." -> Unused
# MRT323: "You've got a face only a sledgehammer could love. And has!"
# MRT324: "Your face is just begging to be kicked."
# MRT325: "What a perfectly good waste of arms and legs."
# MRT326: "Pike that!"
# MRT327: "Filthy sod."
# MRT328: "Flies wouldn't even rest on your carcass."
# MRT329: "Ugh, you alley bred dog!"
# MRT330: "Plane swine!"
# MRT331: "You leatherhead."
# MRT332: "Prime scum."
# MRT333: "She has the personality of a patch of razorvine, and twice as ugly."
# MRT334: "You blathering idiot!"
# MRT335D: "Choke on a bone, you witless ape!"
# MRT336: "I am *not* taunting that, no way."


That last one... MRT336... isn't really a taunt. But if it plays, the taunt works successfully anyway. I have a strong feeling there was supposed to be a way via the engine or CRE file to specify critters as immune to taunt that would use that sound file, but it never got implemented (instead, immunity is conferred by an item).

I'm going to kill two birds with one stone, and replace MRT336 with MRT322AL. That way, no fix in the engine will be required, I can do that via minor tweaking of the STRREFs in the dialogue file.

Issue 2: Unfortunately, most of those taunts are quite hard to hear because there's a "magic" casty sound that plays whenever you use -any- special ability from the radial menu. The same sound plays whether TNO is raising dead, or Grace is using sensory touch, or Morte does his Litany. I'm asking scient to get rid of that casty sound specifically for Litany of Curses, cause it's nothing but irritating, drowns out Morte's amusing taunts, and (most important as a justification for doing it as a fix) it's really inappropriate anyway since Litany of Curses is a purely non-magical ability, he's really -just cursing- at them. There's no logical justification for it coming with a magic casty sound anyway. So, killing it, which'll make those fun little taunts actually audible.

Qwinn

[Qwinn]

Yay... re issue 2, the problem can be handled with a simple one byte WeiDU tweak to the Litany of Curses SPL file. The swirly effect and the casty sound both no longer play (which is good, cause it's -not- a spell) and you can hear the taunts perfectly now. Wewt.

Qwinn

[gothemasticator]

I agree with your thinking on Fujhill's two lines.

Also, switching the two Morte taunt lines is a good idea.

gothemasticator

[Qwinn]

Just received this one via email:

If you go into Vlask's hut in Ragpicker's Square, and he sells you a bead, and you go back in a second time, he claims to have another bead to sell you (and he of course should have at least one, he wouldn't go back in without a way to leave himself!), but even if you buy it or kill him there is no second bead and you are stuck permanently. Will give him another bead each time he enters.

Qwinn

[macabroid]

A long-time PsT fan, but only now has found an opportunity to experience all these incredible restorations in action. Many thanks for your ongoing efforts: PsT is the best game ever, and it surely deserves this attention! Also, here is the list of some minor problems I've noticed during my playthrough, sorry if something of it is well-known, contradicts with your restorator's credo, caused by my silly misunderstanding or stretches too far beyond the task of your restoration project.

• Wife-of-Angyar: "The Dustie calls himself Gravesend. I know not his first name". Yet your journal somehow knows his first name is Mortai: "I've offered to go speak with ... Mortai Gravesend".
  
• When you start duelling with Adyzoel Eriane-Ard, Starved Dog Barking Thugs become aggressive too. Oh yes, they are chaotic, but this looks more like a factions bug.
  
• Shouldn't Elyce and company disappear the next day after you've solved the quest? There's no sense in standing in the same dramatic poses on the streets when the conflict is over.
  
• Why the symbols above a dabus head doesn't show every time you start to speak with a dabus? These symbols look very cool, and almost all the dabuses are the same and share the same dialog. So why they can't have the same visual greeting?
  
• Buy a portal key from Vlask, than immediately speak with him again, he'll require 200 coppers for another portal key, but you haven't used the first one yet! Vlask isn't blind and the hut is pretty small, so this is strange. He could just say nothing at this moment.

[Qwinn]

1. Good catch, will fix, at least for the languages my mod translates

2. This may actually be intended. The Starved Dogs will actually help anyone who calls for help, and Adyzoel does so when he sees an enemy. That's a pretty standard scripting action, though, probably just cut and pasted, and I do have to agree that from conversation Adyzoel is clearly much too arrogant to call for help from the locals. And obviously Adyzoel wasn't implemented and so that conflict never went through testing. I'm inclined to go ahead and remove that conflict as you suggest.

3. Eh. Dunno. Always seemed to me that area was just their hangout. And their dialogue isn't inappropriate. Lots of quest characters hang around after their quest are completed, so I'm not sure if this is a bug or not. Next time I play through, though, I'll keep an eye out and see if it looks as strange to me as it does to you.

4. Hmmm... ugh, this may have actually been fixed in an early version of Fixpack and then I went and yanked the fix due to not knowing what it did (pretty sure I inherited it from Platter or Restoration Pack, one of those). I will see if I can re-fix it.

5. That's tough, actually. They went through a lot of trouble to make sure no creature ever has no valid dialogue state, and if that happens it can result in some screwy game behavior. But I'll see what I can do. Maybe make their leaving a cutscene.

Thanks lots for the notes!

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 30 May 2009 - 05:51 AM.

[Qwinn]

On the rebuses thing, it may have nothing to do with that yanked fix I was talking about. Any chance you could identify for me which specific dabuses weren't displaying their thing the way you feel they should? Even just identifying one would help.

Qwinn

[macabroid]

3. The most unnatural thing is that Elyce keeps standing in about 3 meters distance from both her brother and her lover. When they are arguing, that's OK: she's trying to reason both. But when they are not arguing, I can't imagine any sane reason for her standing in the middle, with a face towards the wall, it's just strange. They may at least group together and start to chat merrily. Also, most of the characters on the streets of Hive have their own reasons to stay on the streets: harlots are waiting for client, traders are selling staff, Mourns-for-Trees is growing his trees, rake is waiting for a duel etc. That is why I have a strong feeling that "Elyce and company" is just a one-time encounter, even more: it could be possibly intended to spice up the life when you enter the Hive on later stages of the game, that is why they were forgotten and not included in a game at all. As for their replies when the quest is over - maybe they were not intended to leave immediately, they'll just disappear when you enter the level next time? But all these, surely, is just my personal opinion.

4. Rebuses appear (as a nicely coloured popup string) above the head of ANY FIRST dabus you'll talk when leaving Mortuary. There are 3 different sequences: first, when you say "Greetings", second, when you "Click for more" in dialog window (which is most certainly a bug, because dabus isn't saying anything, he's just waiting for your answer!), third, when you are saying "Uh, farewell" and leaving. Rebuses won't appear above the head of any "standard" dabus when you speak with him next time, NO MATTER if you've learned their language or not. IMHO the "Greetings" sequence should appear above the head of any standard dabus every time you're talking to, and "Farewell" sequence should appear every time when you leave. This symbols are cool, they enhance atmosphere greatly, so they should be visible more often than now, especially 'cause dabuses are the same, so their greetings\farewells should be also the same, isn't it?

(Oops, it seems that "different sequences" is actually one animation, displaying as a different sequence of rebuses for every direction dabus turns. Even stranger, but I still can't understand why this animation doesn't appear every time you speak to dabus)

And - many thanks for your replies, actually I'm very glad to be able to make my favorite game even better! Thanks for the opportunity!

[Qwinn]

3. *nod* Ok, like I said, next time I run through I'll look at the Elyce & Brothers situation and, if I can see what you're referring to, I'll look at making them leave after some amount of time passes, or otherwise move 'em around so it looks more natural.

4. Okay, that's quite helpful. I can see why it's happening and how to fix it now (and yep, had nothing to do with the other thing tweaked by the older mods, that fix really only cleaned things up in Near Infinity, and had no effect I can see in game). Adding it to greetings will be easy, and I may not have the symbols appear on Farewell until after you actually leave the conversation, but hopefully that'll do?

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 30 May 2009 - 01:29 PM.

[Qwinn]

Correction! On the dabus floating rebuses thing, the old change I referred to which was made by Cilantro's Restoration Pack, WAS a big deal. He added the FloatRebus() function to INSTANT.IDS which makes the rebuses appear -while- you're in dialogue, without that, they only show up after the dialogue is over.

I had instituted the same fix back in Fixpack 1.0, but somewhere along the way (probably when I was working on a different tweak of the same INSTANT.IDS file) that fix got dropped. It is back in, and I will make a note of it in the readme with appropriate credit.

Now, even if I hadn't dropped it, they wouldn't have shown up on subsequent conversations with the dabus anyway, because the FloatRebus command under that circumstance wasn't being given at all. I'll be adding that.

EDIT: Okay. Proving conclusively that I have no life, I just spent most of Saturday night going over the dialogues of regular dabuses, Fell, and the dabus in the Alley. I've based the appearance and change of the floating rebuses to align as close as possible to the dialogue cues. This is sometimes impossible to cue properly when PC's are translating for you (you can't issue the FloatRebus command from someone else's dialogue), so it isn't totally perfect, but it's a lot closer than the unfixed dialogues were.

The dabus also have a tendency to do their hammering animation, along with their working sound, during conversation. I'm going to try and make that stop, seeing as there is no hint in dialogue that they are continuing to work while talking to you. I think basically their script is still running during conversation, which is bad.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 30 May 2009 - 07:42 PM.

[Qwinn]

I give up. Spent a LONG while trying to make dabuses that have scripted "walk around hammering" sequences to stop doing them once in dialogue. I can't figure out any way. I tried ClearActions and ClearAllActions in the dialogue, !InteractingWith([PC]) in the scripts, and like seven other attempts I don't even remember anymore. Nothing works. They'll stop hammering while talking to you -eventually-, but the first few states you go through, they still follow their working script (depending on where they were in it).

(I -think- I could do it for a creature with a generic script, by doing ChangeAIScript to turn their script off altogether and then turn it back on when saying farewell, but in this case we've got like 30 dabuses all sharing the same dialogue with unique scripts, so I have no way to know what script to change them back -to-)

If anyone knows how to properly interrupt a script during dialogue, please do let me know.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 30 May 2009 - 07:43 PM.