32 replies to this topic

[Qwinn]

Ah well, couldn't expect it to be perfect on the first try...

1) Bestiary entries for Dustmen (male and female) can get zeroed out depending on how much you learn about the Dustmen, resulting in the entry being a dialogue line from Deionarra. Thanks to Kavax at the Codex for reporting it.


I'll wait a while longer for more mini issues like this to shake out before doing a mini-update to resolve them, less something more serious comes up.

Please feel free to report any other bugs found in this thread.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 23 December 2008 - 09:18 PM.

[Qwinn]

Incidentally, for the bestiary entry, if anyone wants to know what it should say at the point it gets blanked out, here's the entry (highlight to read):

Spoiler

~The "Dustmen" are the caretakers of the Mortuary, a huge morgue filled with bodies. The faction seems to be a pretty somber bunch, rarely showing expression or interest in anything. They seem intent only upon taking care of all the dead bodies that come into the Mortuary, cataloguing them, preparing them, then burying them... somewhere.

The Dustmen have suppressed most of their emotions, seeing them as distractions to reaching the "True Death". They perceive the 'life' that they lead as a temporary one, a shadow of the True Death that all living beings seek to reach. According to Dustman philosophy, one must divest themselves of all passions before they can pass beyond this existence and into the True Death.~

Qwinn

[scient]

At some point I'll put together list of known engine stuff that still needs to be resolved but so far my play through has been solid. Playing a chaotic good / true neutral thief and haven't run into any major issues.

[Qwinn]

Hey, I'd be happy to hear about any non-major non-engine issues too. I'm anal. Even if it's really minor stuff, I'll take a look.

Qwinn

[janjetina]

I have encountered a gamebreaking issue.
After Nameless One's death in the Tenement of Thugs, the whole party (TNO, Annah, Morte, Dakkon) respawns in a locked room, whose door can neither be bashed nor lockpicked. There is a crate in the room, but it also can't be lockpicked or bashed. I don't have a Knock spell ready. So, it seems that I'm stuck.

[scient]

I have encountered a gamebreaking issue.
After Nameless One's death in the Tenement of Thugs, the whole party (TNO, Annah, Morte, Dakkon) respawns in a locked room, whose door can neither be bashed nor lockpicked. There is a crate in the room, but it also can't be lockpicked or bashed. I don't have a Knock spell ready. So, it seems that I'm stuck.

Wow that is a pretty big bug. I can confirm this with 2cd version. It's not a result of my engine patches because the same thing happens with vanilla unpatched exe. Maybe Qwinn knows how spawn points are set? It really should be at the front door (I think). If you don't have a previous saved game or know how to use Near Infinity, post your saved game and I'll sort it for you.

[taplonaplo]

I have encountered a gamebreaking issue.
After Nameless One's death in the Tenement of Thugs, the whole party (TNO, Annah, Morte, Dakkon) respawns in a locked room, whose door can neither be bashed nor lockpicked. There is a crate in the room, but it also can't be lockpicked or bashed. I don't have a Knock spell ready. So, it seems that I'm stuck.

If you have no nearby savegames install the tome of cheats from the tweak pacl, add it to your character with a savegame editor (DLTCEP/Near Infinity works as well) and teleport away.

Edited by taplonaplo, 24 December 2008 - 01:49 PM.

[janjetina]

I have encountered a gamebreaking issue.
After Nameless One's death in the Tenement of Thugs, the whole party (TNO, Annah, Morte, Dakkon) respawns in a locked room, whose door can neither be bashed nor lockpicked. There is a crate in the room, but it also can't be lockpicked or bashed. I don't have a Knock spell ready. So, it seems that I'm stuck.

Wow that is a pretty big bug. I can confirm this with 2cd version. It's not a result of my engine patches because the same thing happens with vanilla unpatched exe. Maybe Qwinn knows how spawn points are set? It really should be at the front door (I think). If you don't have a previous saved game or know how to use Near Infinity, post your saved game and I'll sort it for you.

I'm playing the 4 CD version. I've reverted to a previous save (frequent saving is a must with IE games) and put more effort into the fight, so TNO survived and I continued on. I'll keep an eye out for more bugs.

A spoiler follows:

Spoiler

I have noticed one inconsistency regarding Dakkon (it's not a bug, but a game feature that could be tweaked). Since my character has high INT and WIS, I managed to complete The Eight Circle of Zerthimon quite early, resulting in the Pronouncement of Two Deaths as One and Dakkon finally *knowing* himself again. However, Dakkon's banter with other zerth and conversation lines between Dakkon and TNO do not reflect that important change.

[Qwinn]

Yikes, sorry about the door in the Tenement. That was a result of the Locks Difficulty fixes. I actually knew that the respawn point was there, but didn't realize that I'd left the difficulty of that door so high (I had it at 70, which -is- pickable, but would require you either being a thief yourself or having a couple of tattoos to help Annah's skill.

I meant to have it at 50, which would make it openable by Annah, or a TNO with a strength spell and the prybar could manage it too. Both the crate and the door have keys which can be pickpocketed off the thug sentry, which is why on my initial pass I set their difficulty so high. I saw that room as being where the thugs would throw you after you died, as a sort of prison, and you had to break yourself out somehow, but I suppose a very unprepared TNO wouldn't be able to make it out and that would be considered game-breaking, so I'll make it even easier than 50.

I'll be doing a mini update today or tomorrow, I'll fix that issue along with 'em.
Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 25 December 2008 - 09:04 AM.

[Qwinn]

On further reflection, it really may be better to move the respawn point (yes, I do know how to change it) than to make the lock trivially easy again. Cause even as it exists in the unmodded game, what's happening there makes no sense at all:

In the unmodded game, the lock difficulty on that door is trivial, and it was always true that if you get killed in the Tenement without ever opening it, your party will respawn inside that room with a locked door. It was just easily bashed. If the notion is that your party retreated to that point, that makes no sense on a number of levels (Why retreat there? How did you relock it behind you? Why? What if the only way your party -can- open it is by bashing?). The only logical reason I can see your party respawning in that room, -through- a locked door, is if the thugs -are- throwing you in there, and it makes no sense that they would "imprison" you and your party members, unguarded, in a room with a trivial lock that is easily bashed - again, what happens in the unmodded game.

On the other hand if it's possible for -any- TNO, including a soloing TNO mage with 9 strength and no knock spell, to get locked permanently in there, that's going to be perceived as a game-breaking bug, so I'd -have- to make it trivial, i.e. bashable by that mage.

It's hard to figure out what the intent was of the respawn point being there that makes sense. Maybe at some point they really meant it to be potentially game-ending. Or maybe there was supposed to eventually be some cutscene where the thugs come and talk to you/open the door that never got finished. If so, though, none of those potential intentions were ever followed through with.

There's also the competing design question as to why that door has a key, and getting through it gets you some (sorta) nice loot in there. Leaving the lock exactly as it is in the unmodded game - a door, automatically bashable by a 9 strength mage, also openable by a key called "Tenement Storeroom Key" on the thug sentry - doesn't make sense as far as being intended either. The existence of the key itself implies the intent for there to be SOME sort of difficulty getting through it.

So... yeah, I think moving the respawn point to the entrance to the Tenement (on the Hive side) is a good fix to do entirely outside of the content of the lock fixes. Whatever design intent there was to have the respawn point in that room appears to have been unfinished, and without finishing it, it seems broken to leave it that way.

I'll leave the lock difficulty as I'd changed it (70 difficulty, openable by beefed up Annah or TNO thief, or via pickpocketing/killing the thug sentry for the key).

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 25 December 2008 - 04:50 PM.

[InTourette]

Little bug in the Raukquest...
With the tweak stackable rings on TNO only gives him the rings, from which you have only one. So if theyre stacked Rauk wont get any Ring, but the quest is solved anyway..

[Qwinn]

I'm afraid you do need to start a new game to go with the new versions. Too many possible conflicts with the new engine stuff.

There's a lot of new stuff to enjoy right from the mortuary, though, so even if it weren't technically necessary I'd highly recommend starting a new game anyway.

It's nothing to do with the restrictions on the armor bracers, by the way... I myself restored a game shortly after I yanked that tweak (the save game up to that point was 95% version 3.0 and had all the key engine fixes) and it worked, it just popped the bracers to my inventory.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 27 December 2008 - 09:50 AM.

[janjetina]

Yesterday I encountered an issue that originates from the unpatched game, as I remember having problems with it years ago. The spell Chain Lightning Storm sometimes (but not always) temporarily freezes the computer (for 30-60 seconds).

[Qwinn]

That's an issue caused by bad graphics drivers (I'm betting you're using a fairly modern NVidia card). At this time, there's nothing we can do about that, I'm afraid.

Happens a lot with Grace's Call Lightning too.

Qwinn

[janjetina]

Yes, it's nVidia. In case anyone encounters this issue, alt-tabbing to windows unfreezes the game. It also sometimes happens with the Elysium's Tears spell.

[ghostdog]

janjetina check out this thread : http://www.shsforums...showtopic=30840 some tweaks here might help you.

[janjetina]

Curst in Carceri bug:
I have encountered a bunch of Curst citizens attacked by two demons. Every time a citizen is killed, TNO gets an evil point and a chaotic point. There is absolutely no way (thanks to IE pathfinding) to prevent demons killing at least 1 citizen (they usually manage to kill 3 citizens before I reach them, after 5-6 reloads I managed to lose only one citizen). Though this makes sense in the game context (letting the citizens die through inaction is both chaotic and evil), it doesn't make sense for TNO to be punished for something that he can't do (it's not chaotic or evil that a few citizens died before I managed to reach the demons, as it was out of my hands). Saving the citizens yields you only the XP reward, with no alignment shifts.

Tek'elach and Agri-shanak fight in Curst: after one of them is killed, the other one is still hostile.

@Ghostdog: Thanks, I'll do that.

Edited by janjetina, 29 December 2008 - 06:27 AM.

[Qwinn]

Curst in Carceri bug:
I have encountered a bunch of Curst citizens attacked by two demons. Every time a citizen is killed, TNO gets an evil point and a chaotic point. There is absolutely no way (thanks to IE pathfinding) to prevent demons killing at least 1 citizen (they usually manage to kill 3 citizens before I reach them, after 5-6 reloads I managed to lose only one citizen). Though this makes sense in the game context (letting the citizens die through inaction is both chaotic and evil), it doesn't make sense for TNO to be punished for something that he can't do (it's not chaotic or evil that a few citizens died before I managed to reach the demons, as it was out of my hands). Saving the citizens yields you only the XP reward, with no alignment shifts.

Huh. Strangeness. You're right, it -does- seem like their dying affects your alignment (looking at values using Scale of Souls tweak), but there's nothing in any of the related scripts that makes it happen. The only script attached to those guys is 0900TWN1.BCS, and it says nothing about changing alignment.

I can't figure out what's causing it. Maybe it's in the engine? scient, if you decide to take a look, the area is AR0900, and the creatures getting killed and changing TNO's alignment are WEAKCST1.CRE through WEAKCST8.CRE. I'm suspecting that the alignment hit may be tied to the sprite animations, too.

I'm normally very very very loathe to change alignment hits, unless it's clearly bugged. Lots of the alignment hits in game are very arguable/questionable, and I think those would be better addressed by some Virtue-type mod.

That said, I'd agree (especially if this is the result of some sort of global effect set in the game engine that applies to almost everything) that this -is- a bug... I don't think it was intended that your alignment change based on the actions of someone/something else, or even by "inaction". For one, nothing else I can think of in game does so. For another, I would tend to think that such an effect was set in the engine on the premise that affected creatures don't die unless -you- kill them, which is true 99% of the time. I could add scripting to offset the alignment hit from the engine for those specific creatures, but I'd first like to know what's making it happen.

Tek'elach and Agri-shanak fight in Curst: after one of them is killed, the other one is still hostile.

As far as I can tell, this is the behavior in the vanilla game. Having one of them de-aggro after the other dies was something I was considering doing (because they do have dialogue), but decided it was too tricky to get into for version 3.0. Do you have reason to believe one of them was supposed to deaggro, other than anything I've said? If there's support for that in the strategy guide or something, then I'd be very happy to make it actually work that way.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 29 December 2008 - 12:07 PM.