43 replies to this topic

[Arkain]

Note the "he cannot
access any of the other classes? abilities when he is specializing in one of the classes". Sounds to me as if he's more of a single-classer after specializing in one class although that sounds a bit too strange to me (in the "Hey, look at me, I totally forgot how to swing a weapon because I just got +1 intelligence by specializing as a mage although I knew it before when I switched to mage" way or as in "Crap, I can't switch classes anymore cuz I'm specialized now. Well, bad luck"). Anyway, that's a lot more evidence than what we got before.

Edited by Arkain, 17 December 2008 - 04:27 AM.

[Qwinn]

Arkain:

I think you're reading too much into the word "specialize" there. I don't think that's referring to level 7/12 class specialization (which isn't otherwise mentioned in the manual, I don't think, please correct me if I'm wrong, can't find my manual atm). I think that was just an acceptable shorthand way of phrasing "the class you're currently operating as". I can't readily think of an alternate way of rephrasing that original sentence that doesn't come across as pretty clunky and hard to grok.

And looks like someone voted -against- the HP fix and for the THACO fix, heh, that's a first I'm gonna guess that's under the "anything that makes the game harder is good, anything easier is bad" logic?

I can appreciate that, but I should point out that the HP fix isn't just a buff to mages and thieves - there's also a partial nerf in there as well. The part where you get 1hp when leveling in a class that's not your highest class is also contra the manual, and is also being fixed. That was making up for a significant amount of the hp mages and thieves weren't getting, and giving fighters more hp than they were ever supposed to have as well.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 18 December 2008 - 11:43 AM.

[BLAH]

BTW, as far as I can remember, characters got hp from con bonus at levels 11+. I don't know what the manual says about this, but I think AD&D rules say they shouldn't. Can someone comment on that?

[Qwinn]

I'll check it out, but too late to get any potential fix into this version I'm afraid.

I think you're definitely right as to the 2nd ed. D&D rule on the matter. You're probably right that it's not working that way in game as well. We'll have to look into it to see if it was intended... I'd like to know why it operates differently from the games the engine was inherited from if that's the case. From a balance perspective, it's probably quite unbalancing... that can add a -ton- of hit points in the end game that no other creatures in the game (except Lothar and Coppereyes, heh, they have 32000) compare to, but still, I'd like to find more in-game evidence other than the 2nd ed. rules before changing it.

As I pointed out on another board recently, the intent isn't to enforce 2nd Ed. D&D rules (although, if there's a bug and there's no clear designer intent on the matter, complying with the 2nd ed. rules is the way I'll lean). This game breaks 2nd Ed. rules deliberately in quite a few cases, so can't always go by them. The goal is to determine and implement the designer's intent. I -hope- you're right about this because I do think it'd be more balanced, but like I said, gotta dig and see if we can find indications of that intent anywhere before we can call it a bug.

Qwinn

P.S. Just checked the manual, it seems silent on the subject.

P.P.S. Hmmm, thinking about it... the only IE game that came before PS:T to my knowledge is BG1, and due to the xp caps, you couldn't reach the higher levels, so for the engine at that time it was a non-issue. They wouldn't have needed to make a point about it in the engine until games that came after PS:T. So. Hmmmm.

P.P.P.S. Bleah. Yeah. Confirmed. All the PC's continue to get their Constitution bonus after level 10. You're right that by 2nd ed. rules they shouldn't be. Hmmm. They don't do so in any other IE game, right?

Edited by Qwinn, 18 December 2008 - 08:48 PM.