11 replies to this topic

[neostalker]

So, I've recently soloed SoA with a sorceror (well, I needed a little additional help on the Irenicus fight).
I then created a kensai/mage to solo with, but I think I dual-classed it too early (level 9).

I want to have more focus on the fighter aspect, and less on the mage aspect. At what level should I dual-class, do you think?
I don't need any super high-level spells, I just want to use magic to protect and aid my fighter without completely relying on the magic part.
And I want to have full proficiency (or close to) in two weapons.

Using ToB's experience cap.

Edited by neostalker, 11 December 2008 - 07:24 AM.

[GeN1e]

I suggest using multi instead of dual then. You'll only miss kensai's +3 damage bonus.

[Icendoan]

Optimum levels for dualing a Kensai are 9, 13 and 15. 9 for a proficiency and last of your D10+CON HP, 13 for another 1/2 attack per round and 15 for another proficiency. For a caster mage, 9 is optimum. For a fighter-focused dual, 15 is better, as you want the most from your fighter class.

Spells like Tenser's Transformation, ShapeChange and weapon spells are best for a F-F/M. The downside of Tensers makes no difference, while the perks are a real boost. Also, Stoneskin you have a whole new use for, and you can soak damage with PBAoE (Point-Blanc Area of Effect) spells like SunFire in Contingencies and Triggers turns you into a powerhouse.

Also, disabling spells are better, over damage spells. Free-Action and Web is a fairly deadly combination, as is Greater Malison -> Emotion (Without SR). Remember that Improved Haste is probably going to be among your favourite spells, and that Sleep and Charm is better than Magic Missile, in this game.

Icen

[neostalker]

I suggest using multi instead of dual then. You'll only miss kensai's +3 damage bonus.

But that gives an "even" balance between fighter and mage, doesn't it?
I want the fighter part to be higher level than the mage.

Optimum levels for dualing a Kensai are 9, 13 and 15. 9 for a proficiency and last of your D10+CON HP, 13 for another 1/2 attack per round and 15 for another proficiency. For a caster mage, 9 is optimum. For a fighter-focused dual, 15 is better, as you want the most from your fighter class.

Spells like Tenser's Transformation, ShapeChange and weapon spells are best for a F-F/M. The downside of Tensers makes no difference, while the perks are a real boost. Also, Stoneskin you have a whole new use for, and you can soak damage with PBAoE (Point-Blanc Area of Effect) spells like SunFire in Contingencies and Triggers turns you into a powerhouse.

Also, disabling spells are better, over damage spells. Free-Action and Web is a fairly deadly combination, as is Greater Malison -> Emotion (Without SR). Remember that Improved Haste is probably going to be among your favourite spells, and that Sleep and Charm is better than Magic Missile, in this game.

Icen

Thanks. That's kind of what I have in mind too. More combat-effect spells and less damage spells. I'll let my sword do the damage.
I'm playing as a mage, and will dual-class to fighter, btw. Not the other way around. :-P
The reason for that is because I'd like to reach a level with the mage where I can say "this is enough", and then go for the fighter-aspect.

So, when I'm playing a mage, when should I dual-class in this case? :-P
Sorry for making this over-complicated.

Edited by neostalker, 11 December 2008 - 09:04 AM.

[Icendoan]

Well, depends which spells you want, how many fighter levels you want and so on. Also, unless you cheat, you can't have a kit.

I would still dual from Kensai at 15, where you get the most of the Kensai (save HLAs, which aren't great anyway), as progression from there is really slow, and the full benefit of the mage and more spell slots.

You know, because the most devastating spell you can have (Time Stop) is level 9, and you need to be level 18 Mage to even cast ONE, when you have all sorts of awesome level 9 spells like ShapeChange and Wish. Also, 18 mage uses the most experience to get there (3,000,000), instead of something like 2,200,000 for a fighter. Starting out as a Mage, unless you finish as a Mage isn't good, because the higher the Mage level, the better the benefit. Kensai's less so.

Icen

[neostalker]

Thanks. Those are aspects to consider.

Don't really know what to choose. :-P
I don't care about the level 9 spells though... as I said I just want some basic spells to aid my fighter (not kensai) in his battle, without getting too "magey".
This won't be an all-solo character! I will have Edwin as backup.

Edited by neostalker, 11 December 2008 - 09:53 AM.

[Icendoan]

Well, the Kensai/Mage will solo practically everything.

Magey is good. You get better the more Magey you get, while Kensai start off sweet but don't do much afterwards. And TimeStop is by far the best thing you could ever use for a Fighter. Autohits! How much better does it get?

Icen

[neostalker]

Well, the Kensai/Mage will solo practically everything.

Magey is good. You get better the more Magey you get, while Kensai start off sweet but don't do much afterwards. And TimeStop is by far the best thing you could ever use for a Fighter. Autohits! How much better does it get?

Icen

Thing is. I like playing characters more from a "concept" perspective rather than a "power" perspective.
And I like the concept of a full-bred fighter who can dabble with some basic spells (up to level 7 or something), but is mostly combat oriented.
I have the mod for casting spells wearing full armor btw.

[GeN1e]

But that gives an "even" balance between fighter and mage, doesn't it?
I want the fighter part to be higher level than the mage.

Well, you'll have to get a lot of XP to dual at 13 lvl, though it's doable.
If you play as multi you'll get access to both wizard and fighter HLAs, that's the most notable part. So, while you are dealing less damage, you instead can WW with a twohander for much greater effect. Also, it'll be more consistent to not have to wait for reactivation of the first class. Finally, you'll be able to cast and wear elven chainmails, not just robes.

[Icendoan]

Well, you aren't looking to start as a Mage, because you lose the main benefit of being a Fighter: HP.

I would think that simply playing a Multiclass would best suit your needs.

Icen

[neostalker]

Well, you aren't looking to start as a Mage, because you lose the main benefit of being a Fighter: HP.

I would think that simply playing a Multiclass would best suit your needs.

Icen

Okay, if that gets me closest to the character I have in mind, then I will go for that.
Thanks for your help!

[Icendoan]

You progress both classes at the same time, so it simplifies things really. You won't end up an Archmage, but neither a Warlord.

Icen