19 replies to this topic

[Chronis]

Hello, I finally decided to play through the game as a rogue. I am currently playing
tutu, but plan to play through the entire game. I have been greatly enjoying this mod, but run into a
small problem.

Everything works great except I can not get the thief ability detect illusion to work.
I even cheated with shadowkeeper and set the ability to 220 and made myself impossible to kill. I just sat next to enemy mages in detect trap mode and it still would not dispel invisibility or mirror image.

Any chance this is a rogue rebalancing bug?

[aVENGER]

Everything works great except I can not get the thief ability detect illusion to work.
I even cheated with shadowkeeper and set the ability to 220 and made myself impossible to kill. I just sat next to enemy mages in detect trap mode and it still would not dispel invisibility or mirror image.

I am unable to reproduce this on my local install. Please post the contents of your WeiDU.log and tell me against which enemy are you testing Detect Illusions. Also, are you using EasyTutu or just plain old Tutu?

Any chance this is a rogue rebalancing bug?

No, the behavior of the Detect Illusion skill is hardcoded, so I couldn't change it even if I wanted to. In my games, it always works properly, i.e. staying in the "Find Traps" mode for a round or two dispels any invisibility and illusion spells on nearby enemies.

[Chronis]

I am using easytutu, I have tested this with on Silke in Bergost (who casts mirror image and improved invisibility with SCS installed) and on the two mages in the Drasus party of assassins who attack you right outside the cloakwood mines. Neither imoen or the pc with detect illusion skill set at 220 were able to bring down either improved invisibility or mirror image using their detect skill it is very odd.

// Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods
// The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod
// ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [Subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version]
~EASYTUTUDEGREENIFIER.TP2~ #0 #0 // EasyTutu Degreenifier
~SETUP-TUTUFIX.TP2~ #0 #2 // Restored BG1 Loadscreens
~SETUP-TUTUFIX.TP2~ #0 #3 // BG2 Ammo Stacks
~SETUP-TUTUFIX.TP2~ #0 #4 // Totemic Druid Spirit Summons are Balanced
~SETUP-TUTUFIX.TP2~ #0 #5 // BG1 Summoning Spells
~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ #0 #0 // Proper dual-wielding implementation for Thieves and Bards: v4.01
~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ #0 #1 // Thief kit revisions: v4.01
~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ #0 #3 // Proper racial adjustments for thieving skills: v4.01
~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ #0 #4 // Bard kit revisions: v4.01
~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ #0 #7 // Additional equipment for Thieves and Bards: v4.01
~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ #0 #9 // Revised Thievery -> Use PnP thievery potions and prevent their effects from stacking: v4.01
~SETUP-SIRINESCALL.TP2~ #0 #0 // The Lure of the Sirine's Call: v8
~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #0 // Ice Island Level Two Restoration
~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #1 // The Mysterious Vial
~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #2 // Additional Elminster Encounter
~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #8 // Safana the Flirt
~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #9 // Appropriate Albert and Rufie Reward
~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #10 // Place Entar Silvershield in His Home
~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #11 // Scar and the Sashenstar's Daughter
~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #12 // Quoningar, the Cleric
~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #13 // Shilo Chen and the Ogre-Magi
~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #14 // Edie, the Merchant League Applicant
~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #15 // Flaming Fist Mercenary Reinforcements
~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #16 // Creature Corrections
~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #17 // Creature Restorations
~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #18 // Creature Name Restorations
~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #20 // Audio Restorations
~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #21 // Store, Tavern and Inn Fixes and Restorations
~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #22 // Item Corrections and Restorations
~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #23 // Area Corrections and Restorations
~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #24 // Permanent Corpses
~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #25 // Elven Charm and Sleep Racial Resistance
~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #26 // The Original Saga Music Playlist Corrections
~BG1UB/SETUP-BG1UB.TP2~ #0 #27 // Sarevok's Diary Corrections
~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #0 // The BG1 NPC Project: Required Modifications: v16
~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #1 // The BG1 NPC Project: Banters, Quests, and Interjections: v16
~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #7 // The BG1 NPC Project: Kivan's "Kivan and Deheriana Companions" portrait: v16
~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #8 // The BG1 NPC Project: Add Non-Joinable NPC portraits to quests and dialogues: v16
~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #16 // The BG1 NPC Project: NPCs can be sent to wait in an inn: v16
~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #18 // The BG1 NPC Project: Alora's Starting Location -> Alora Starts in Gullykin.: v16
~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #20 // The BG1 NPC Project: Eldoth's Starting Location -> Eldoth Starts on the Coast Way.: v16
~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #22 // The BG1 NPC Project: Quayle's Starting Location -> Quayle Starts at the Nashkel Carnival.: v16
~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #24 // The BG1 NPC Project: Tiax's Starting Location -> Tiax Starts in Beregost.: v16
~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #28 // The BG1 NPC Project: Cloakwood areas availability in Chapter One -> Open Cloakwood Lodge (first Cloakwood area only): v16
~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #30 // The BG1 NPC Project: Sarevok's Diary Adjustments -> SixofSpades Extended Sarevok's Diary: v16
~BG1NPC.TP2~ #0 #200 // The BG1 NPC Project: Player-Initiated Dialogues: v16
~BG1NPCMUSIC/BG1NPCMUSIC.TP2~ #0 #0 // The BG1 NPC Project Music Pack -> Install All Audio: v5
~SETUP-D0TWEAK.TP2~ #0 #0 // Enhanced Goodberries
~SETUP-D0TWEAK.TP2~ #0 #11 // Visual Ioun Stones
~SETUP-D0TWEAK.TP2~ #0 #17 // Sensible Lore Table
~SETUP-D0TWEAK.TP2~ #0 #18 // Improved Backstabbing
~SETUP-D0TWEAK.TP2~ #0 #21 // NPCs/Summons Set Off Traps -> Only green-circles and enemy summons can set off traps
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #40 // Change Viconia's Skin Color to Dark Blue
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #60 // Weapon Animation Tweaks
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #90 // Disable Portrait Icons Added by Equipped Items
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #100 // Commoners Use Drab Colors
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #110 // Icon Improvements
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #130 // Force All Dialogue to Pause Game
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1010 // More Interjections
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1060 // Breakable Iron Nonmagical Shields, Helms, and Armor
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1070 // Improved Multi-Player Kick-out Dialogues
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1080 // Add Bags of Holding
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1090 // Exotic Item Pack
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1100 // Reveal City Maps When Entering Area
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1110 // Add Map Notes
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1140 // Gems and Potions Require Identification
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1150 // Shapeshifter Rebalancing
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2090 // Change Experience Point Cap -> Remove Experience Cap
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2100 // Allow Thieving and Stealth in Heavy Armor
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2120 // Allow Arcane Spellcasting in Heavy Armor
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2150 // Wear Multiple Protection Items -> P&P Restrictions
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2170 // Cast Spells from Scrolls (and Other Items) at Character Level
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2192 // Limit Ability of Storekeepers to Identify Items -> Hybrid of Both Methods
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2210 // True Grandmastery (Baldurdash)
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2220 // Change Magically Created Weapons to Zero Weight
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2230 // Make +x/+y Weapons Consistent
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2231 // Description Updates for Make +x/+y Weapons Consistent Component
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2240 // Un-Nerfed THAC0 Table
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2250 // Un-Nerfed Sorcerer Spell Progression Table
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2261 // Alter Mage Spell Progression Table -> PnP Table
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2271 // Alter Bard Spell Progression Table -> PnP Table
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2281 // Alter Cleric Spell Progression Table -> PnP Table
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2294 // Alter Druid Spell and Level Progression Tables -> Use Cleric Level Progression Changes With PnP Druid/Cleric Spell Table
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2312 // Add Save Penalties for Spells Cast by High-Level Casters (BETA) -> Arcane & Divine Magic
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2330 // Remove Delay for Magical Traps (Ardanis/GeN1e)
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3125 // Neutral Characters Make Happy Comments at Mid-Range Reputation
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4000 // Adjust Evil joinable NPC reaction rolls
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4031 // Consistent Stats: Edwin -> Use BG2 Values
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4041 // Consistent Stats: Jaheira -> Use BG2 Values
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4050 // Change Jaheira to Neutral Good
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4061 // Consistent Stats: Minsc -> Use BG2 Values
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4071 // Consistent Stats: Viconia -> Use BG2 Values
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #10 // Detectable Spells: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #20 // Allow enemy AI to detect the party's magic items: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #30 // Correct various errors on race, class etc: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #1000 // Make Protection from Normal Missiles block magical missiles: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #1010 // More consistent Breach spell (doesn't penetrate Spell Turning): v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #1020 // Antimagic attacks penetrate improved invisibility: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #1030 // Iron Skins behaves like Stoneskin (can be brought down by Breach): v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #2000 // Make elemental arrows more like their BG2 counterparts: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #2010 // Replace many magic weapons with fine ones -> Fine weapons are affected by the iron crisis: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #2020 // Re-introduce potions of extra-healing: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #3001 // Standardise spells: BG1 vs BG2 -> Introduce BG2 spell scrolls into BG1: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #3010 // Faster Bears: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #3030 // Allow NPC pairs to separate: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #3060 // Allow Yeslick to use axes: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #3080 // Improved shapeshifting: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #3090 // Prevent party members from dying irreversibly: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #4010 // Remove blur effect from displacer cloak: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #4020 // Stackable ankheg shells and winterwolf pelts: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #4030 // Move Boo out of quick access and into Minsc's pack: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #4050 // Ease-of-use player AI: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5000 // Smarter general AI: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5010 // Better calls for help: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5021 // Potions for NPCs -> One third of the potions dropped by slain enemies break and are lost: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5033 // Smarter mages -> Mages use spells from BG1 and BG2; mages pre-buff: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5043 // Smarter priests -> Priests use spells from BG1 and BG2; priests pre-buff: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5050 // Smarter deployment: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5060 // Harder giant and phase spiders: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5070 // Smarter sirines and dryads: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5080 // Slightly harder carrion crawlers: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5090 // Smarter basilisks: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6000 // Improved doppelgangers: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6010 // Tougher Black Talons and Iron Throne guards: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6020 // Improved deployment for parties of assassins: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6030 // Dark Side-based kobold upgrade: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6040 // Relocated bounty hunters: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6050 // Improved Ulcaster: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6060 // Improved Balduran's Isle: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6070 // Improved Durlag's Tower: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6080 // Improved Demon Cultists: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6090 // Improved Cloakwood Druids: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6100 // Improved Bassilus: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6110 // Improved Drasus party: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6120 // Improved Red Wizards: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6130 // Improved Undercity party: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6140 // Improved minor encounters: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6150 // Tougher chapter-two end battle: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6160 // Tougher chapter-three end battle: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6170 // Tougher chapter-four end battle: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6180 // Tougher chapter-five end battle: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6190 // Tougher chapter-six end battle: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #6200 // Improved final battle: v9
~SETUP-EASYTUTUSPAWNRANDOMIZER.TP2~ #0 #5 // EasyTutu Spawn Randomizer -> Base Spawn Chance: 80%
~SETUP-EASYTUTUSPAWNRANDOMIZER.TP2~ #0 #13 // Respawn Interval Selection -> Respawn Interval: 6 game days
~TUTUGUI/SETUP-TUTUGUI.TP2~ #0 #0 // Baldurs Gate I GUI for Tutu, SoA/ToB, or BGT
~TUTUGUI/SETUP-TUTUGUI.TP2~ #0 #1 // Support for The Biggs widescreen mod

[aVENGER]

I am using easytutu, I have tested this with on Silke in Bergost (who casts mirror image and improved invisibility with SCS installed) and on the two mages in the Drasus party of assassins who attack you right outside the cloakwood mines. Neither imoen or the pc with detect illusion skill set at 220 were able to bring down either improved invisibility or mirror image using their detect skill it is very odd.

Hmm, try lowering the Detect Illusions score of your characters to 100% as (engine wise) there's no point in having more than that, and some thief skills are known to "warp around" to zero at very high values. Another thing, are you using the most recent version of EasyTutu (dated May 08, 2008) or an older release?

BTW, I just ran a quick test on my own EasyTutu install. I started a new game, created a Thief protagonist, used the CLUAConsole to level him up to level 10, gave him 100% in Detect Illusions and then went to the Friendly Arm inn in order to confront Tarnesh. In default EasyTutu (without SCS) Tarnesh's first spell is Mirror Image. After he had cast it, I put my protagonist in the Find Traps mode and Tarnesh's Mirror Image was properly dispelled.

[Chronis]

Thanks for the confirmation that it works in an unmodded game. I tried at at 100 detect illusion as well and. No luck so its not wrap around.

I though I checked all mods to make sure I had the most up to date version but sure enough,
my easy tutu, was downloaded on 9/07 so its not the most current version. It could also be one of my mods. I am suspicious of

~SETUP-D0TWEAK.TP2~ #0 #18 // Improved Backstabbing
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2100 // Allow Thieving and Stealth in Heavy Armor
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #4050 // Ease-of-use player AI: v9
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5033 // Smarter mages -> Mages use spells from BG1 and BG2; mages pre-buff: v9

Sigh, it looks like some annoying testing is in my future. I'll let you know when I figure it out.

[Chronis]

posted in error

Edited by Chronis, 07 December 2008 - 12:30 AM.

[aVENGER]

my easy tutu, was downloaded on 9/07 so its not the most current version.

I think this may be the most probable cause since older versions of EasyTutu used the original BG1 spells while the new ones use their BG2 counterparts. IIRC, in BG1 spells didn't have a secondary type designation which may be what's causing this problem. Try downloading and installing the most recent version of EasyTutu and doing my aforementioned quick test on a clean install. If it works properly, than we've found the culprit.

Also, make sure that the party AI is off during your tests, as some character scripts can interrupt modal states like Turn Undead and Find Traps.

[Chronis]

Reinstalled everything, yep it was the old easy tutu that was causing the problem.
Works now that that latest easytutu is installed.

Thanks for the help

[Icendoan]

No, all it has to be in Jan's line of sight.

Icen

[Azazello]

Just out of interest, can anyone tell me how close you have to be to the enemy mage/illusion to be able to dispel it with DI? For a non-combat thief (e.g. Jan) is it practical to move him close to the enemy mage/illusion during a battle, or is he likely to get killed in the process?

The range (area of effect) is 60 feet, at least on my RR version of SPIN805.spl. This is wider than a fireball blast, I think.

[aVENGER]

The range (area of effect) is 60 feet, at least on my RR version of SPIN805.spl.

Actually, the THIEF_DETECT_ILLUSION spell (aka SPIN805.SPL) isn't used for the Detect Illusion skill nor is it modified by Rogue Rebalancing in any way. That spell is employed by some enemy thieves in the unmodded game as a substitute for the actual skill check. I'm guessing that the original developers didn't have the incentive to make a script block which uses the proper skill check as that would require assigning all thieves in the game a proper Detect Illusions score.

For reference, RR opponents (in STI and CoC) use the FindTraps() action and therefore need to make a proper Detect Illusion check when attempting to use that skill. This ensures that the enemies play fair and behave exactly like PC thieves. The same applies for the Hide() action and the respective skill check as well.

[Azazello]

The range (area of effect) is 60 feet, at least on my RR version of SPIN805.spl.

Actually, the THIEF_DETECT_ILLUSION spell (aka SPIN805.SPL) isn't used for the Detect Illusion skill nor is it modified by Rogue Rebalancing in any way. That spell is employed by some enemy thieves in the unmodded game as a substitute for the actual skill check. I'm guessing that the original developers didn't have the incentive to make a script block which uses the proper skill check as that would require assigning all thieves in the game a proper Detect Illusions score.

For reference, RR opponents (in STI and CoC) use the FindTraps() action and therefore need to make a proper Detect Illusion check when attempting to use that skill. This ensures that the enemies play fair and behave exactly like PC thieves. The same applies for the Hide() action and the respective skill check as well.

Oh, okay.

Does RR modify 'Detect Illusion' for Thief-players/NPCs?

Does FindTraps() have an area of effect?

[Icendoan]

Yes, the same as Detect Illusion

Icen

[aVENGER]

Does RR modify 'Detect Illusion' for Thief-players/NPCs?

No. As noted above, it can't be done, the behavour of the Detect Illusion skill is hardcoded into the engine.

Yes, the same as Detect Illusion

Not quite. The range of the DI skill (for both players and RR opponents) roughly equals half of the characters visual range. The can easily be verified via testing.

[Icendoan]

Well, isn't Line of Sight 360 degrees anyway?

Icen

[Lykainon]

Well, isn't Line of Sight 360 degrees anyway?

Maybe he asks if it's possible to do around a corner or something?

[Icendoan]

Well, as long as it is within that characters area of sight (ie, where the fog of war is NOT for that character) you should be able to, and it is in 15' of the character.

Icen