I intend to play through EasyTutu and BG2 + ToB at some point, and have been pondering what to do about Imoen. Nythrun's wonderful L1NPCs mod over at G3 allows us to have characters exactly the way we want, and I've thought up several possibilities for Imoen. I'm very interested to see what other people think about two of these builds in particular.
Firstly, though, these are some of the relevant mods I'll be using:
Item Revisions
Rogue Rebalancing (including "Thief Kit Revisions")
Sword Coast Stratagems 1+2
BG2 Tweak Pack
L1NPCs (including "Joinable NPCs more closely match the PC's experience" and allowing any NPC to use any weapon type)
The first build I'd like feedback on is what I call "Traditional Immy", and it's where I dual-class her to a Mage in BG1 at Thief (Swashbuckler) level 6. At this point she'll have 100 in both Open Locks and Find Traps, as well as 2* in Katana/Wakizashi and 1* in Short Bow. When I dual her to a Mage I'll give her Single Weapon Style at level 1 (for protection purposes) and Quarterstaff at level 6. She'll finish the game as a level 9 Mage/level 6 Thief.
In BG2, I'll first use the CLUAConsole to make her the same way as when she ended BG1 i.e. level 9 Mage/level 6 Thief, and do the same again when I get her in Spellhold (bumping her Mage level as appropriate). At this point I'll most likely want her to use the Zerth Blade (at least for a while), and I'm hoping she could operate as both a support caster and a front liner. I'd then put another * in Single Weapon Style at level 12, with a second * in Quarterstaff at level 18. At this point I'd switch her over to using the Staff of the Magi, which would make her even more effective on the front line, should she wish to engage in melee combat. The proficiency points gained at levels 24 and 30 would go into Two Handed Weapon Style.
The second build I'd like comments on is what I call "Swash Immy", and is based on the similarly-named component from the Refinements mod. For this build she remains a Thief (Swashbuckler) throughout BG1, ending up with not only 100 in Open Locks and Find Traps, but also close to 100 in both Move Silently and Hide in Shadows (when wearing the Shadow Armor and Boots of Stealth). I appreciate that she won't be able to backstab, but I very much like the idea of using her to scout out each area, disarming traps and picking locks as she goes.
As far as weapons are concerned, I was thinking about starting her off with one * in either Long Sword or Short Sword, and another in Two Weapon Style. The proficiency points gained at levels 4 and 8 would also go into Two Weapon Style, and she'd end the game as a level 10 Thief, dual-wielding effectively (especially considering that Rogue Rebalancing Swashbucklers use the Fighter THAC0 table). Now can anyone suggest what type of sword I should start her off with? Are the Long Swords or Short Swords in BG1 better for dual-wielders? I was also thinking about making Khalid a dual-wielder and having him use Long Swords, so maybe Short is the way to go for Immy (although I'd very much like some opinions on this).
For BG2, I was thinking it'd be most sensible to dual her to a Mage once I've met Yoshi (she needs to be duelled before we exit the starting dungeon, certainly). For arguments sake, let's say I did start her off with Short Sword in BG1. When I dual her to a Mage I'd give her Long Sword at level 1 and Katana/Wakizashi at level 6. As far as Mage levels 12, 18 and 24 are concerned, I'd use the proficiency points gained there to get each sword to 2*. The Staff of the Magi would obviously go to another party member, or not be used at all.
So what does everyone think of these two builds? I'd appreciate general comments, but do have two specific questions regarding "Swash Immy":
1. In what order would you get each sword type to 2* e.g. Short Sword first, then Katana/Wakizashi and finally Long Sword?
2. Refinements' SwashImoen is a level 5 Mage/level 10 Thief when you find her in Spellhold. Assuming my "Swash Immy" is similar in levels, will I have a problem getting her out of Spellhold if she's the only Thief in the party? If so, I guess I should make sure I take another Thief with me to Spellhold and hold on to them at least until Imoen regains her Thief skills, yes? This may sound like an obvious thing to do, but I'd like to hear from users of Refinements' SwashImoen on how difficult things are if Imoen is the only Thief in the party at that time.
Thanks for reading.
Please help me decide how to configure Imoen
Started by
-Dirty Uncle Bertie-
, Nov 04 2008 04:26 PM
1 reply to this topic
#2
the bigg
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- Modder
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- 3331 posts
2083 is a prime number.
Posted 04 November 2008 - 05:06 PM
Technical notes:
taking ** in a weapon is generally useless for non-fighters (you'll get +1 thac0 and +2 damage, but no additional attacks per round, thus not being particularly useful).
With SwashImoen, when you get her in Spellhold she should have enough XP points to reactivate the Thief class. Even if she didn't, you can (if worse comes to worst) absorb traps with Mirror Image and cast Knock on locks.
I can attest that a Swash(10) -> Mage using good equipment (dual wield Belm and Kundane, some Giant Strength Belt, bracers of AC / Elven Chain Mail) will turn her into a great tank with good enough melee DPS, while still retaining spells and thievery skills (although you'll generally wish to use her spells for buffing herself rather than attacking/debuffing the enemy, so you need a more dedicated arcane caster like Edwin or Kelsey). IIRC, in my last full game she had 40% of the kills in a six men party (Kundane + Belm + Improved Haste = 8 attacks per round, which can be combined with Time Stop for 24 attacks dealing 15-20 damages each).
Except for Chateau Irenicus (and BG1 if you want a mage and don't have another one), 'traditional immy' is just 'swashimoen', except she loses: 1 AC, 1 damage per attack, 1 proficiency point, 3 points of thac0 and 100 thief skills (Detect Illusions is pretty nice in tactical mods, and for hiding there's Invisibility already).
Regarding weapon skills (assuming swashimoen), in BG1 she should get:
lvl1: * 2 weapons, short sword (use just one sword for now; she can use the +2 Short Sword; later on, there's a +3 Short Sword in BG1CH7 and Kundane in BG2)
lvl4: ** 2 weapons (use a Short Sword + 1 offhand I guess)
lvl 8: * Scimitar (for using Belm in BG2)
dual to mage at level 10
lvl 1: * dagger (only weapon type compatible with dual wielding, Dagger of the Star has interesting DPS potential)
I'd level mage up to 5 and then stop until she can reactivate the Thief Class to avoid using the 6th level proficiency point in something useless (staves, darts and slings are incompatible with dual wielding), but that's up to you. Nice things to do later on could be, in no particular order:
third pip in 2 weapons (not useful if you use Kundane + Belm + Improved Haste, nice if you dual wield other things)
Katana (Celestial Fury, Zerth Blade, etc.)
Long Swords (lots of decent ones, might want to use Angruvadal in ToB for 22 strength and freeing up the Belt)
Club (no memorable ones, but that's the last thing compatible with dual wielding)
** in Short Sword and Scimitar, for deadlier attacks (although, since this doesn't give bonus attacks per round, it's not as critical as if she were a fighter)
Anyway, staves can't hold a candle to dual-wielding Kundane and/or Belm for characters who aren't part fighters (you'd get only one attack per round no matter what with staves... that's simply rare enough not to count).
You might be interested in Zyraen's Tweak Pack at PPG, which allows you to transfer XP from Yoshimo to Imoen in CH4, to make leveling her easier.
taking ** in a weapon is generally useless for non-fighters (you'll get +1 thac0 and +2 damage, but no additional attacks per round, thus not being particularly useful).
With SwashImoen, when you get her in Spellhold she should have enough XP points to reactivate the Thief class. Even if she didn't, you can (if worse comes to worst) absorb traps with Mirror Image and cast Knock on locks.
I can attest that a Swash(10) -> Mage using good equipment (dual wield Belm and Kundane, some Giant Strength Belt, bracers of AC / Elven Chain Mail) will turn her into a great tank with good enough melee DPS, while still retaining spells and thievery skills (although you'll generally wish to use her spells for buffing herself rather than attacking/debuffing the enemy, so you need a more dedicated arcane caster like Edwin or Kelsey). IIRC, in my last full game she had 40% of the kills in a six men party (Kundane + Belm + Improved Haste = 8 attacks per round, which can be combined with Time Stop for 24 attacks dealing 15-20 damages each).
Except for Chateau Irenicus (and BG1 if you want a mage and don't have another one), 'traditional immy' is just 'swashimoen', except she loses: 1 AC, 1 damage per attack, 1 proficiency point, 3 points of thac0 and 100 thief skills (Detect Illusions is pretty nice in tactical mods, and for hiding there's Invisibility already).
Regarding weapon skills (assuming swashimoen), in BG1 she should get:
lvl1: * 2 weapons, short sword (use just one sword for now; she can use the +2 Short Sword; later on, there's a +3 Short Sword in BG1CH7 and Kundane in BG2)
lvl4: ** 2 weapons (use a Short Sword + 1 offhand I guess)
lvl 8: * Scimitar (for using Belm in BG2)
dual to mage at level 10
lvl 1: * dagger (only weapon type compatible with dual wielding, Dagger of the Star has interesting DPS potential)
I'd level mage up to 5 and then stop until she can reactivate the Thief Class to avoid using the 6th level proficiency point in something useless (staves, darts and slings are incompatible with dual wielding), but that's up to you. Nice things to do later on could be, in no particular order:
third pip in 2 weapons (not useful if you use Kundane + Belm + Improved Haste, nice if you dual wield other things)
Katana (Celestial Fury, Zerth Blade, etc.)
Long Swords (lots of decent ones, might want to use Angruvadal in ToB for 22 strength and freeing up the Belt)
Club (no memorable ones, but that's the last thing compatible with dual wielding)
** in Short Sword and Scimitar, for deadlier attacks (although, since this doesn't give bonus attacks per round, it's not as critical as if she were a fighter)
Anyway, staves can't hold a candle to dual-wielding Kundane and/or Belm for characters who aren't part fighters (you'd get only one attack per round no matter what with staves... that's simply rare enough not to count).
You might be interested in Zyraen's Tweak Pack at PPG, which allows you to transfer XP from Yoshimo to Imoen in CH4, to make leveling her easier.
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