15 replies to this topic

[Gorion]

Hello,

I am soon to start playing BG1 & 2 after so many years. An individual (Leomar I think) has told me about this website and I am very interested in installing BGT due to all the excellent things it provides (i.e. the BG2 engine present in BG1).

However, I have three questions that I was unable to find (and please direct me to the forum/thread/answer if it has already been asked/answered).

Before I ask the question: I just wanted to mention that I know BGT is mainly involved with combining BG1/2/TOB into one big chunk. Furthermore it adds BG2 engine into BG1 and improves the look and feel of BG1 up to BG2 standards. Furthermore it allows for the smooth transition of the BG1 character into BG2 and it also allows some of your party members to retain their BG1 stat into BG2 (whcih I think is nice ). So hence BGT is not mainly an addition mod per se (like there are mods that actually extra quests and items etc -- while to my knowledge, BGT does not do this). Correct me if I am wrong.

So I had a look at this link http://www.spellhold...e/BGTReadme.htm and I was able to find much information for BGT. I was just wondering (I flicked through some of the revision history but most appeared to be of the bug fix/tweak fix nature and not an actual change to the game itself) so I was wondering if there has been any actual changes been made to the the BG1/BG2 games. I am not talking about a bug fix change where for example, a mage casts the correct spell that he said he cast or for example fixing a bug where some NPC says give me this scroll and I will give you 500 gold and when you do the quest he only gives you 400 gold.

By gameplay changes take for example: Imoen is no longer a thief but a mage!!! Now I know you guys havent done that (or everyone in the BG community will have a heart attack!) but I am interested in those kind of changes (if any) that BGT does to BG1/2. Maybe you guys havent done anything of that magnitude and any changes are very minor? So any changes in terms of quests/items/spells/NPC's/dialogue. I heard that you guys have added/improved dialogue but I was worried if it was changed/altered to be something completelly different :s.

Second Question:
I have not played BG2/TOB fully the last time I played it (so I have not gotten all the way to the end). Does BGT make any changes to BG2/TOB? Or is BGT mainly the joiner of BG1/BG2/TOB and it just gives the nice BG2 engine to BG1 among other things to BG1?

Third question:
When will 1.07 of BGT be comming out? If it's sometime in next few weeks, then I will be happy to wait a bit . Also with every new update to BGT will there be a need to start all over again? (i.e. uninstall and re instal and make a new character?)

Thank you for your time.

edit: I also just wanted to mention that I am still quite new to this modding community and the amazing level of modding that occurs still to this day with BG1/2/IWD1/2/etc! So sorry if something I said is extremelly obvious/wrong .

Cheers!

Edited by Gorion, 01 November 2008 - 05:24 AM.

[Azazello]

Very good questions (more than 3, btw), especially for players new to the MegaMod (or Mega-Install) universe.

I just wanted to mention that I know BGT is mainly involved with combining BG1/2/TOB into one big chunk. Furthermore it adds BG2 engine into BG1 and improves the look and feel of BG1 up to BG2 standards. Furthermore it allows for the smooth transition of the BG1 character into BG2 and it also allows some of your party members to retain their BG1 stat into BG2... Correct me if I am wrong.

Not quite correct, but not completely wrong.

BGT...

• ...does not combine "BG1/2/TOB into one big chunk":
  It concentrates exclusively on BG1.
  There was a mod that focused on supporting that combination--Big Picture--but it doesn't do that anymore.
  
• ...doesn't really "add" BG2 to BG1:
  It runs a BG1 game using the BG2 system, i.e. BGT converts some of the BG1 resources into BG2 resources, then uses BG2 to run your BG1 game. YOU as the player have to "add"--that is, install--both BG1 and BG2 on your computer. BGT can't work without both systems.
  
• ...does provide a transition from BG1 to BG2.
  Whether or not it is smooth is an academic debate you may see people get into.
  But what's most important is that once your game/party transitions to BG2, BGT is finished, it doesn't affect you game at all in the BG2 portion of your game.
  
• ...yes, does "allows some of your party members to retain their BG1 stat into BG2".
  It will transition only some NPCs (I think the ReadMe states which ones). Some of these NPCs will not appear in Irenicus's dungeon, instead later in the game, e.g. Edwin.

So I had a look at this link http://www.spellhold...e/BGTReadme.htm and I was able to find much information for BGT. I was just wondering (I flicked through some of the revision history but most appeared to be of the bug fix/tweak fix nature and not an actual change to the game itself) so I was wondering if there has been any actual changes been made to the BG1/BG2 games.

Two extra links that will help are
[Release - Interim] BGT-WeiDU v1.07
and
[Release] BGT-WeiDU version 1.06

I understand your interest. Perhaps someone else can provide a one-stop source of what else BGT changes (in a BG1 game), if anything else.

By gameplay changes take for example: Imoen is no longer a thief but a mage!!!

Incorrect. Where did you read/find this misinformation?
In fact, whatever class/kit your NPCs are before transition, they maintain into BG2.

When you meet NPCs in the BG1 portion, they have whatever the default class/kit they had in vanilla BG1. The only way to change this is by using other mods.

Second Question:
...Does BGT make any changes to BG2/TOB?

Already answered: No.

Third question:
When will 1.07 of BGT be comming out? If it's sometime in next few weeks, then I will be happy to wait a bit . Also with every new update to BGT will there be a need to start all over again? (i.e. uninstall and re instal and make a new character?)

It is smart practice to not ask when a mod will be released, because the nicest answer you'll get is, "When it's ready." Not-so-nice answers are best not considered.

It's always best to concentrate on using the most-current mod version, and not worry about upcoming versions. Unless the mod author says differently.

edit: I also just wanted to mention that I am still quite new to this modding community and the amazing level of modding that occurs still to this day with BG1/2/IWD1/2/etc! So sorry if something I said is extremelly obvious/wrong .

Your questions were great and helpful. There's a lot of information out there about the whole MegaMod experience, overwhelming even.

You've heard this before, but it has to be restated every time, for ALL NEW PLAYERS: despite the overwhelming info, new players should invest the time to read the forums, ReadMe's, opinions on other forums, SEARCH function, etc. Very likely, your questions have already been answered.

This doesn't mean don't ask questions. Just do some homework first; then if all else is failing, then post questions (in the correct forum).


Welcome to the community. Have fun.

Edited by Azazello, 01 November 2008 - 11:55 AM.

[Ascension64]

Everyone has been a newbie at some stage, so don't worry about it.

Thanks for checking out BGT.

I'll keep my answers short for you. BGT puts BG1 into BG2. It doesn't change BG1, SoA, or ToB. BGT allows you to play straight through from BG1 to the end of ToB.

I'll also let you make an informed choice by asking you to check out EasyTutu as well, which is an alternative way of putting BG1 into BG2 (http://www.usoutpost31.com/easytutu/). EasyTutu puts BG1 into BG2, but technically doesn't allow you to play BG2 on the same installation. Support for EasyTutu is over at http://forums.pocketplane.net.

If you like to change BG1, then you might like to use various mods that work with either EasyTutu or BGT.

I work on BGT and I honesty I have no idea when BGT 1.07 is coming out. It will most likely require a new game to be started. If you started a game and a new version is released, just keep going with the old game - the current versions are stable enough.

[Gorion]

Hello!

Sorry for the slow reply, have been a bit busy in real life in terms of assignments/exams .

Thank you both for the very thorough answer and giving me the option to make an informed opinion (i.e. to see if I like easytutu etc.) I will make my decision in time and will let you guys know what is happening.

Also thank you both for answering my questions thoroughly! I am happy to know that this forum provides a friendly atmosphere .

Thanks again and if I have any issues (i.e. trouble installing or what not) I will send a message here asking for help hehe .

Kind regards,
Gorion .

[Dachande]

Not sure if anyone still reads this, but as to it changing something in bg2: It has for me. In bg2, the BG1 values for disarming traps, scribing spells and picking locks are used. It's kinda a pain, and while I do realise it can't use the bg2 values in bg1, is that really neccessary?

[Jarno Mikkola]

Not sure if anyone still reads this, but as to it changing something in bg2: It has for me. In bg2, the BG1 values for disarming traps, scribing spells and picking locks are used. It's kinda a pain, and while I do realise it can't use the bg2 values in bg1, is that really neccessary?

It is, or the whole trap system would need to be redone. Now, you can remod the trap etc. experience gains, by modifying the xpbonus.tp2 code, be careful though, not to screw it up. Or you can install the BGT-Tweaks component that re-inserts the regular BG2 experience point gains... but as the system is the way it is, the experience gains are the same in BG1 as in BG2... meaning that you can't really play one game in BG1 while another in BG2... without loosing or gaining too much Xp.

[Icendoan]

You used to get BG2 exp, and you could be level 7 by looting Beregost.

Icen

[UndeadsRUs]

I actually had an idea for a "fix" of sorts for the trap/unlocking experience issue.  I've done this on my game, and it seems to work fairly well.  

My solution was to simply set the experience gained from traps/unlocking to 0 for levels 1-10, and to the normal Baldur's Gate 2 values beyond that.  I chose level 10 as a rough estimate of what level I would be when I went to Baldur's Gate 2 with my mod setup.  If this were to implemented as a component of BGT Tweaks, I would suggest doing a poll of what level people are when they transition, and setting it to the median.  Or make it user-settable in the installer, if WeiDU can take integer variables in prompts(I really can't recall if it can or not).

[Ascension64]

It's an idea. I think there might be some inconsistencies because the change-over doesn't depend on the transition to BG2, especially when having multiple mage and thief classes at multiple levels.

[UndeadsRUs]

Oh, I realise it's by no means perfect.  I use it because I know what class combinations I will be using that game in advance, and can usually estimate what level I will be when I transition.  Also, if I'm too far off, I can always just edit it mid-game.  

If this were to be widely used, however, some fairly heavy research might be needed to determine where to best place the switching point.  Even more complicated is trying to determine where to place it when multiple mods are involved.

[Dachande]

Ah, didn't realize it was that complicated. Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me.

[Icendoan]

Well, ideally, last would be best.

Icen

[Ascension64]

Well, ideally, last would be best.

Icen

I think UndeadsRUs meant where to put the changeover of experience in the XPBONUS.2DA table. I think it's going to be so variable that you can't just put a rigid one there.

[Leomar]

I like the small XP for traps/unlocking which BGT gives. But if you want the BG2 XP in BG2 for that, why not the traps/unlocking depends on XP instead of Level? So it is easier to handle with the M/T, etc. classes.
Depends if this is doable.

Greetings Leomar

Edited by Leomar, 19 November 2008 - 01:48 AM.

[UndeadsRUs]

Another idea has popped into my head(this happens a lot when I'm trying to study for exams...).  I'm really not sure if this one is feasible or not, because I haven't scripted anything for the Infinity Engine for a long time.  

If it's possible for the engine to detect experience gains, it may be possible to set the experience gained from scrolls, traps, and locks to some arbitrary negative number.  For instance, -1 through -9 for level 1 through 9 scrolls, -10 for traps, and -11 for locks.  Supposing a script can detect when experience is gained, as well as the amount gained, it should be possible to detect these negative experience gains, and use that to trigger adding the correct amount of experience.  Prior to the transition, the exact negative amount would be refunded, giving a net gain of 0.  Following the transition, the amount for the action at the character level, plus the negative value, would be given.

Pseudo-code:

int Scroll01 = -1
int Scroll02 = -2
...
int Scroll09 = -9
int Trap = -10
int Lock = -11

If(Pre_Transition == 1)
   Do_Nothing
Else(*catch negative experience gains here*)
   If( (Negative_Amount =< -1) && (Negative_Amount => -9) )
	  AddExperience (Negative_Amount * -1001)
   ElseIf(Negative_Amount == -10)
	  AddExperience 10
	  AddExperience *amount based on character level for disarming trap here*
   ElseIf(Negative_Amount == -11)
	  AddExperience 11
	  AddExperience *amount based on character level for opening lock here*
   EndIf
EndIf

Again, no idea if this is even possible in the Infinity Engine, or what kind of overhead it might incur(though I doubt it would be an unmanageable amount).  If someone wants to check the feasibility of this, great.  If not, I should have time this weekend to play around with it a bit.

Now, back to studying.

Edited by UndeadsRUs, 19 November 2008 - 10:22 AM.

[Ascension64]

I don't think it is possibe to detect an experience change.