470 replies to this topic

[Nix]

It may be worth keeping in mind that in ToB, Sarevok is never ever arrogant, abrasive, or dismissive towards the PC. He quite clearly recognises the PC as his superior by this time, and the PC knows it too. Charname is unlikely to put up with much crap from Sarevok at this point.

[EpitomyofShyness]

I agree. To cut back on our own panic we should start work with certain pathways and then spread out. But we might want to make this official due to the simple fact that, even though there will be people who attack it there will also be many people who are overjoyed, and perhaps a few who are willing to help. If there were someone around to train me in coding I might pull it off slowly but as it is my computer seems to hate me and when it comes to reading the Weidu walkthrough everything went way over my head.... But working on one pathway seems to be a good idea, and what funner way to go than to start with him CE?

Soooo much fun... But potentially rather sad if your a good character who failed in redeeming him... just because it is a romance certainly doesn't mean it will end well. But honestly being official might be better since we will need help. Besides, to deal with the flamers and such we could have a public forum area for anyone and a private forum with a password. So for actual work stuff we won't run into flames but the flamers can light our cookfires to their hearts content out in the public forum where we could also put up a 'What would Sarevok never do/say?' thread or a flirt ideas thread, stuff like that. That way people who don't want to be directly involved but have good suggestions can give it to us.

Sound good?

[Orthodoxia]

I'd be overjoyed, I'd be very overjoyed if this project would be completed. I've already seen three Sarevok mods go down the drain and I really, badly want to play this one

That said, I have one question (unless I've missed it somewhere on the previous five pages ) WHY and WHEN does Sarevok start feeling attraction to the PC? Did it start back in Sword Coast or did it start right after he pooped out of the Pocket Plane? The reason I'm asking this is because ToB is short yet while we can work out in our heads how our PC came to be attracted to him I certainly, as a player, would like to have a hint of when did he start to see her as something more then just a) to kill and b) use and potentially betray, which can still happen.

Here's my quote from RPG Dungeon forums from so many years ago when the mod there was active. I think I've explained it there better then here.

Most romance mods base on the fact that the NPC in question already has a small crush on the PC, or at least finds her attractive, and then they proceed to get to know each other. While here it is the reverse. Sarevok and PC already know each other, know a lot (not everything obviously) about each others lives. Often the PC?s attraction to Sarevok has been debated - how and why she would be attracted to Sarevok - but never the other way around. So, I feel I have a very important question to ask - namely, when precisely does Sarevok become attracted to the PC? And I do mean physically by that.

Why only physically? Well for starts, aside from that little aspect they pretty much have all the ingredients needed for any kind of relationship to work. He respects her, he said so himself, and respect, at least for me, is the most important part of any relationship for it to work; between siblings, close friends, comrades in arms, even enemies and, of course, in potential romantic relationship. As well, she intrigues him, her motivation, struggle with the taint (whether to suppress it if good, control it if evil, or just plain ignore it if neutral though I?d wager that?s impossible), her ideals if she has any, one of the youngest among the Bhaalspawn, a nobody who had become the most powerful spawn of them all? the possibilities are as infinite as the number of PCs created out there. The emotional part of their relationship is overrun with their shared history. Good, it means they already have a good foundation for the rest, plus they probably won?t get bored with each other any time soon.

But the physical aspect of their relationship, if one chooses the said path, is a bit foggy. I hardly doubt that the moment he popped out in the Pocket Plane and saw her he decided she looked damn good and off we go, or, that the first move from the PC (that is needed for the romance to fire up) will open his eyes, so to speak (and I don?t care how high her charisma is).

Also, I doubt that in the past he had even seen her really, I mean really looked at her; be it at Candlekeep ? both times ? or during their final confrontation. And I think he was to busy hating her in the hells to notice her growing up once he was free again. She was competition, a threat, a name on his list of people-to-kill-so-I-can-become-a-God that needed to be crossed.

So, when did he stop seeing the PC as a snotty younger sibling who had somehow (with lots of luck, a good number of saves & re-loads and a pack of hired guardian angels who were tripping over each other?s dippers to keep her alive - in which case he should really consider hiring the said angels) managed to defeat him, and started seeing a young woman who grow up and took her destiny in her own hands as a potential life partner?

I hope this doesn't raise too many questions Good luck with the mod I'll be watching you

[Thanatos.]

Bang. Enough friggin' said. Well, perhaps not.

I think that Sarevok would romance Elf, Half Elf and Human. I don't think he would be that crazy about smexy hot tusk liking one-off's besides the campfire whilst Anomen watched from the bushes with video camera in one hand and release form in the other, so Half-Orcs are gone from the equation. Gnomes and Hobbits, I mean, come on. The size difference pretty much ruins any chances of the relationship (unless your Aerie, she has a thing for Gnomes ), so no stick-and-rock smex going on there, either.

Classes? Sure, he might not be that into a Paladin, but how about a Fallen Paladin? Perhaps he could convince a normal Pally to "convert". As for Clerics not wanting to romance an evil NPC, BAH! Think of the most evil bish you know in BG. Thats right, Viconia. And she's a Cleric. So THERE.

I think that, no, Sarevok would not make the first move in any romantic relationship with <CHARNAME>. I agre with Orth, that the PC would "open his eyes" to the whole woo-hoo side of their relationship. I'm not sure about the whole Tamoko thing (as I have never completed BG1. I know, I know.) but if he has loved, cuddled, or even thought about that kind of thing before, then I don't see what is stopping him from doing, or wanting to do, it again.

When your evil, you are usually alone. Perhaps, until know, Sarevok - after joining you and being with your pary for a while (Say, after defeating Abazigal or Whats-es-drow) - hasn't realised just how much his lonliness has consumed him.

[HighTimeRodeo]

Wow, I think my head is spinning...

Have I thanked all you guys for your help, support and encouragment? I don't think I have so thank you and hugs all around!!

For Ithilian:

That fallen paladin idea is great and I already scribbled that down for consideration. And you're right, I can't see any tusk-attraction. Unless he's really, really, really drunk. And even then you'd need perscription strength beer goggles. As for the cleric, I'd forgotten about the Talos options and all that. To quote the Mark Hamill Joker, Silly me.

And no, I don't think Sarevok would initate either. Maybe a third-party character, like Imoen or Minsc or Keldorn or Jaheira, whoever people play with, would make a comment, say a short talk, on unresolved tension between PC and Sarevok.

For Orthodoxia:

Why and when? For the PC I was thinking maybe faint feelings in Baldur's Gate (the city) when he's up on the stage, about to be crowned. Maybe mentioning something along the lines of 'I thought you looked great in your robes' or something like that. I haven't finished BG1 yet 'cause I booped up my first game.

As for Sarevok 'Hey, she's kinda cute. Like, dark alleyway, kinda cute' maybe when he saw her grown up self, not that my PC's are ever grown up , in Hell and liked what he saw. It's not unheard of for say, childhood enemies, to encounter each other in later years and like what they see, instead of the same old rivalry.

For Epitomy:

You're right. We should do two forums. One open and one with a password. Flamers, trolls and suggestions can go in the open forum and we'll discuss and invite people, if they want to help, to the closed workshop.

You mentioned a potential sad ending for CE if you're playing with a good Character and he doesn't redeem properly. I.E., someone hid the paint from the leopard, I wrote an romance ending for CE PC and CG Sarevok, along with an Evil PC and an Evil Sarevok. I can post both of them if you'd like.

For Icendoan:

Going with one path to begin with is a good idea. But the thing is, how do we pare down on content? And if do cut content, could we release some of it in later versions? Because we won't be able to find all the glitches or all the fixes in one go. And I was thinking translations for those Sarevok Fangirls who speak languages other than English.

Lots of ideas, little knowledge.


Thank you all again. I was afraid this wouldn't get anywhere when I first started the topic. Nice to see where it's going.

Edited by HighTimeRodeo, 05 January 2009 - 06:40 AM.

[Orthodoxia]

For Orthodoxia:

Why and when? For the PC I was thinking maybe faint feelings in Baldur's Gate (the city) when he's up on the stage, about to be crowned. Maybe mentioning something along the lines of 'I thought you looked great in your robes' or something like that. I haven't finished BG1 yet 'cause I booped up my first game.

As for Sarevok 'Hey, she's kinda cute. Like, dark alleyway, kinda cute' maybe when he saw her grown up self, not that my PC's are ever grown up , in Hell and liked what he saw. It's not unheard of for say, childhood enemies, to encounter each other in later years and like what they see, instead of the same old rivalry.

Sorry, but this just doesn't float nor would make it believable, for me at least

As far as the PC goes, back in Baldur's Gate the PC was getting ready to snuff the lights out of him. The only was she'd see him was through red shades of murder. And in hell Trials she had no soul to speak off and was preoccupied with Irenicus. To say she's find him even faintly attractive at either of these points is... for me unbelievable. Leave that to player's imagination. The same goes for him - first she shows up and ruins his plans and later he ends up a 5 minute trial in hells and she kills him again. Just, no.

And it's not about her being "cute" (that's why I said high charisma wouldn't work here) it's about him stop seeing as, his killer, his sibling, a means to an end and start seeing her as a person, a woman. How he would deal with that person is another matter altogether. They're not childhood enemies trying to overcome their petty differences - she had killed him. Twice. Leave it in the past or not it's still going to burden the relationship on his part at least.

Edited by Orthodoxia, 05 January 2009 - 07:40 AM.

[Kurokarasu]

Hi!

I waited a bit before posting, because I wanted to watch where this project would go. And as you developped it, your project of a Sarevok romance is very appealing. In ToB, there's clearly some stuff missing for him, and it is strange! As somebody said earlier, he didn't even react at the apparition of Tamoko, or any event where he is concerned so far. Expanding him is not a bad idea... in fact, it will be great if you complete it!

An idea just crossed my mind :

maybe when he [Sarevok] saw her grown up self, not that my PC's are ever grown up , in Hell and liked what he saw. It's not unheard of for say, childhood enemies, to encounter each other in later years and like what they see, instead of the same old rivalry.

It could be his first "love talk", a kind of "Glad to see that you're not the scared child who ran off when I killed your Gorion." meant to be very mean towards Charname, but also to underline that Charname killed a lot of people, moving closer to the Throne of their father or anything in this line; with it, you can let the romance begin very early in the game, even in the Pocket Plane after the first trial... Just my idea, though.

So, good luck, and good work!

Edited by Kurokarasu, 05 January 2009 - 08:06 AM.

[Nix]

I don't buy it either. Before ToB, Sarevok and the PC don't know one another in any meaningful sense, even though they may know a few things about each other. After Sarevok joins up, he's in a party that basically spends 24/7 together in close proximity, so it's plausible that under those circumstances and with Sarevok's new lease on life, he and the PC begin to build a bond and see each other a little differently. Prior to that I can't believe that either of them would ever contemplate thinking of the other, apart from considering the best way to off him/her.

Hmm... for a male PC, will there be a path for building a brotherly relationship? Or heck, even a romance

[HighTimeRodeo]

I don't buy it either. Before ToB, Sarevok and the PC don't know one another in any meaningful sense, even though they may know a few things about each other. After Sarevok joins up, he's in a party that basically spends 24/7 together in close proximity, so it's plausible that under those circumstances and with Sarevok's new lease on life, he and the PC begin to build a bond and see each other a little differently. Prior to that I can't believe that either of them would ever contemplate thinking of the other, apart from considering the best way to off him/her.

Hmm... for a male PC, will there be a path for building a brotherly relationship? Or heck, even a romance

Romance for a male PC? I dunno... I have no problem with it o' course, its just I'd never seen him like that.... Anyway, sure, got any idea's for it? And for brotherly relationship, Epitomy and I were discussing a friendship bit. Maybe as a seperate component.

As for when and why..... I'm stumped on that one. I've never been in a relationship myself, so ya know, I'm kinda new to that portion. Tell ya what, I'll sit down with an empty wordpad and scribble away. Maybe in my random writings I'll come up with a way to work it.

By the way, I got ahold of K'aeloree and he was saying that to get this official, we'll have to do more work on it, say halfway done, then I or Epitomy or someone will send a PM to him with some examples and he'll send it around for perusal by the Staff to see if they want to host it or not. It also has to be a certain quality, so that's a heads up for you.

He also mention a viable coder, so he knows it won't be abandoned halfway through. I can barely get an interjection to do as it's told. Does anyone here have any experience as a coder and would be willing to help a newbie learn and get this working?

EDIT: Sorry, I forgot to add this. Thanks for the idea, Kurokarasu, that's a very good idea. Thank you again.

Edited by HighTimeRodeo, 05 January 2009 - 11:14 AM.

[Orthodoxia]

One advice - not for coding unfortunately - perhaps you should look at this relationship in a backwards sense. It would start out as physical, need/want/desire/whatever, and end with them pondering where are they at and if anything can come out of it. You don't even have to finish the romance in traditional sense. Let it hang in the air at the end of ToB, that way it would be in a sense a prelude into whatever might happen after the game.

[Aeryn]

First I should say that I'd love to see this completed. It's long overdue, that much is certain.

I agree with Orthodoxia - I think it's more probable to imagine Sarevok and the PC having a sexual-tension-turned-random-romp that perhaps has the chance to turn into something more. Maybe even make it so that the PC can simply keep it a physical-only relationship if the player so desires, or end it at any time...although ending it would probably need to be permanent because he doesn't strike me as the type to let himself be used as some play-thing. I can see Sarevok being drawn to eventually wanting more than just sex with both an evil and a good PC, for different reasons and based on how she treats him. I don't know - maybe it's just me but that type of connection makes more sense to me than a traditional "we fell in love through random love-talks" romance, but that could just be because I'm a pervert.

I cannot imagine him giving a damn at all about being "related." Nearly every time he calls the PC "sister" it's out of mockery, sort of as a way to rub it in her face that they have something in common. I also have a hard time imagining him using words like "inappropriate." This is the guy who tried to kill the PC even after he was dead...I don't think he has a lot of moral dilemmas. I think any reluctance in that regard would have to come from the PC, and I think Sarevok would mock her for it (and probably call her sister more often ). Also, I don't think he'd care if the PC was in a romance with another character. If she wants to screw around on whomever, I don't see Sarevok having a problem with that unless their relationship got to a certain point and she was still trying to string things along with the first guy. Nothing wrong with wanting two guys to keep her happy, but I don't think Sarevok would let her get away with it. (His lack of concern for the opinions of most other party members is part of the reason I didn't make a follow-up dialog in the Sarevok RE - I don't think that he would ever mention it to anyone, including the PC unless she first brought it up, and maybe he wouldn't even discuss it then.)

As I said on the G3 forums, I'd be happy to help with evil PC dialogs. I never played anything but CG or NG until this last year, and now I can't get enough of evil characters. They are just so much fun. Of course, you also have to take into account that there will be some good characters who desire Bhaal's throne, just as there will be evil characters that want nothing to do with it. You have a lot of work ahead of you if you keep going with this project, but I do sincerely hope to see it finished. Let me know if you need anything - besides coding, of which I can only do amateurish .d - and I'll be happy to help.

[EpitomyofShyness]

One advice - not for coding unfortunately - perhaps you should look at this relationship in a backwards sense. It would start out as physical, need/want/desire/whatever, and end with them pondering where are they at and if anything can come out of it. You don't even have to finish the romance in traditional sense. Let it hang in the air at the end of ToB, that way it would be in a sense a prelude into whatever might happen after the game.

This is actually what I would prefer and have honestly had in mind. As for romance... Some paths might be considered caring, but down other paths I can truly see Sarevok simply 'playing the part' in a bid for power if the PC ascends. After all, if she likes him down here when she's up there that will count for something.

Gah! There are endless possibilities it is driving me crazy!!!

I'm just gonna go over a few things.
races:

Will Rom: Elf, Half-Elf, Human

Will not:All others.

Why: Because Sarevok is like that. Dwarf, Gnome, Halfling. Um... Size? Sarevok is described as huge. Human small demihuman relationships can sometimes work if the large one isn't a giant.... As for Half-Orcs. They don't all have tusks, some take after the human side, but I really think Sarevok wouldn't look past her heritage. This in my opinion would be more of a physical attraction. Anything else would scare him off. "You want to bed me because your current love life is lacking and you find me appealing? Fine you are not so bad yourself." "You think you love me? Get lost fool."

Classes: All. A Paladin? He'll find the irony amusing. A cleric? "So what does your god say on this woman?" He could work with pretty much anything.

And I don't think the PC could have found him attractive in the past. They would have been too distracted by OMFG he's so HUGE I have to fight that THING?! Then in Hell. AHHH!!! What are you doing here?! I killed you already you jerk!!!

So attraction will happen on the road. But the romance/slash friendship could start really early like someone else on here said. And I think the friendship talks should occur regardless. This path will also occur during the romance but the romance talks will only appear if the character is pursuing the romance.

As for male romance... I imagine we could let you try. But I just don't think Sarevok leans that way. Then again I could be completly wrong. It would warrant more discussion and thought. He might be convinced otherwise. I've read some pretty interesting characterizations of him, one which I can't recall the name of dealt with what if he had killed CHARNAME and he and Imoen were captured by Irenicus. It was most interesting to say the least. So it's a possibility that is definitely worth thinking about.

[Orthodoxia]

If you want real complexity you might as well throw Cythandria in the mix. She considered herself to be his consort back in Baldur's Gate and had reputably spent several years in his company. Tamoko, apparently, showed up later

[EpitomyofShyness]

If you want real complexity you might as well throw Cythandria in the mix. She considered herself to be his consort back in Baldur's Gate and had reputably spent several years in his company. Tamoko, apparently, showed up later

I was thinking about that honestly. But his previous relationships shouldn't shape the relationship he will have with the PC. After all I don't think Cythandria was much more than a bedwarmer to him. But it would be unprofessional of us to completly ignore her or Tamoko. After CHARNAME doesn't get the chance to talk Cythandria out of attacking her/him. They only get that with Tamoko. So we will definitely have to put it in somewhere.

[Thanatos.]

Woah. Ok.

Experienced Coder? Try to convince Icen or SConrad to help, or learn how to do it yourself. This Is a good place to start.

As for classes, there should'nt be a class limit. If anything, the Love-Talks or just the friendship could have small segments dedicated to talking about the PC's class. I know that Yasraena has these, as she chatted about me when I was a Beastmaster. These should/could be implemented into the mod.

[Thanatos.]

(Excuse my double post)

If you want real complexity you might as well throw Cythandria in the mix. She considered herself to be his consort back in Baldur's Gate and had reputably spent several years in his company. Tamoko, apparently, showed up later

I was thinking about that honestly. But his previous relationships shouldn't shape the relationship he will have with the PC. After all I don't think Cythandria was much more than a bedwarmer to him. But it would be unprofessional of us to completly ignore her or Tamoko. After CHARNAME doesn't get the chance to talk Cythandria out of attacking her/him. They only get that with Tamoko. So we will definitely have to put it in somewhere.

True. Perhaps we could release a small BG1 mod that throws in some of these talks with Tamoko and Cyth before they try to rip your spleen out.

[Orthodoxia]

If you want real complexity you might as well throw Cythandria in the mix. She considered herself to be his consort back in Baldur's Gate and had reputably spent several years in his company. Tamoko, apparently, showed up later

I was thinking about that honestly. But his previous relationships shouldn't shape the relationship he will have with the PC. After all I don't think Cythandria was much more than a bedwarmer to him. But it would be unprofessional of us to completly ignore her or Tamoko. After CHARNAME doesn't get the chance to talk Cythandria out of attacking her/him. They only get that with Tamoko. So we will definitely have to put it in somewhere.

You can actually leave both of them alive in game I know I did. And I doubt Sarevok would put up with the same bedwarmer for a few years unless she had something to offer either personality wise or by helping him to reach his goal, much like Tamoko did.

[Thanatos.]

Ok, they both live. Perhaps we could have Cyth turn up in ToB, say, later on in the game. Perhaps... Perhaps she could be that woman tied up in Yaga-Shura's stronghold?

[EpitomyofShyness]

That is true. But regardless whether CHARNAME kills Tamoko, she still dies. That is stated by the game. They don't say CHARNAME killed her but she does die. As for Cythandria, the PC may not have met her, in which case they wouldn't have killed her. So we will need to take that into account to. But it is fairly likely that if Tamoko was killed for being in Sarevok's employ than Cythandria might have been killed as well... Ah well.

Did I say class limit? I think I said he should romance all.... If I said something else oops...

[Thanatos.]

Tamoko's death opens up whole new worlds - including Sarevok's warm fuzzy center he has guarded so much his entire sad life.