470 replies to this topic

[Lykainon]

If so, it needs a Race check, for anything not part human. Otherwise it is implausible, and some nitpicking idiot (like me ) will come and complain.

Good point. I suggest an alternative dialogue in that case where one of them brings up the issue and the other one just goes "Dude, I'm a <RACE1> and you're a <RACE2>. We can totally boink each other!" or something, y'know, more fitting.

[EpitomyofShyness]

I agree, discussing it between character's in mod is completely plausible and very likely to occur. It also makes the mod overall better quality since like you've already said it is an issue that would probably come up between the two, regardless of alignment or race. I can imagine either character bringing it up really, but then again certain personality types might just not think of it, in which case Sarevok should probably bring it up. I can imagine him trying to make CHARNAME uncomfortable with any growing attraction, especially if the feeling was mutual.

I kinda see his opinion of CHARNAME, before alignment change, to be somewhere between bitter about their past, and respectful of the power they've gained. I'm also pretty sure his main reason for joining CHARNAME in the beginning is in order to try and gain a few scraps of the power CHARNAME will get if he/she ascends. And what better way to insure that CHARNAME won't toss him aside when she gains that power than making CHARNAME feel like she needs him there? Or just would prefer him over anyone else. Especially if she showed some sort of interest towards him in that respect... Meh. I'm rambling, and contradicting myself... I do that sometimes... Ack ah well. Like I said I don't think I could write Sarevok, I have too many conflicting ideas about him.

As an almost totally unrelated note I must beg for their to be slightly air/bubble headed responses. I always hated how most responses to conversations are extremely articulate or pathetic or... etc. I like playing slightly oblivious/easily confused/mildly childish characters. But there really aren't that many options for answers along those lines. I've always wanted to be able to say when someone asks me "Why?" "Well, gee I dunno... Because... Erm... Well... Pancakes?... Heh.. Heh heh... Heh..."

Ok that was a little over the top but you get the general idea... Baldur's Gate is always so serious, can't NPC's take a joke? Or not so much a joke if someone is truly terrible at making decisions. In Baldur's Gate CHARNAME always seems so sure of him/herself when in real life people tend to be a little uncertain. So when asked "Why?" I've always wanted to say "I have no idea. I just do."

[Icendoan]

Too serious? Wow. Jan, Tiax...

Icen

[EpitomyofShyness]

Too serious? Wow. Jan, Tiax...

Icen

lol. I know they are not at all serious, but I mean CHARNAME's replies usually seem too serious to me. I've always wanted the ability to act completely ridiculous at times, of course this could have serious consequences, I just want the option to 'break the fourth wall' more often than we get to in most of the game. Of course this is totally unnecessary, it's just something I would really enjoy.

[Icendoan]

And not hard to code, either.

Along the lines of:

//my D file, silly.d
EXTEND_BOTTOM dialogFile stateLabel
+ ~myTrigger()~ + ~silly text~ + existingTrans //going to already existsing blocks is much, much easier for you. Trust me on that.
END

The hardest part is knowing where to add them, after that it is this.

BACKUP ~SillyReplies/Backup~
AUTHOR ~EpitomyofSadness~
BEGIN ~Sillier PC replies across BGII~
COMPILE EVALUATE_BUFFER ~SillyReplies/silly.d~

That and d file above, will do the mod. Just copypasta the d template, and PM me with any questions.

Icen

Edited by Icendoan, 01 January 2009 - 04:49 PM.

[EpitomyofShyness]

...Wow... That went totally over my head... :feels unedjucated:

I need to start examining coding... I am completely oblivious to that realm.

[Icendoan]

Honestly, it is extremely simple. Start looking up in the WeiDU readme what the code means, and you will see how simple it really is.

Icen

[Onigami]

Too serious? Wow. Jan, Tiax...

Icen

lol. I know they are not at all serious, but I mean CHARNAME's replies usually seem too serious to me. I've always wanted the ability to act completely ridiculous at times, of course this could have serious consequences, I just want the option to 'break the fourth wall' more often than we get to in most of the game. Of course this is totally unnecessary, it's just something I would really enjoy.

Jan and Tiax aside, BG is a little too serious, but that's what I personally enjoy so much about the game. It retains a serious aura throughout the entire game because of the constant flow of events. Starting off your dad died, the sabotaged iron, the bandit uprising and then Sarevok creating hell in Baldur's Gate, then the war that is brewing between BG and Amn...

Afterwords you get captured, tortured, pried for information and learn more about your sadistic past and your "Darth Vader wanna-be" demi-god dad.

All those events occurring in a single persons life seems to dispute having time to have any fun at all. Although, Fallout has a similar "serious" storyline but still retains some dark humor...

Although, remaining on topic, if your character made wise-cracks from time to time, I'm not sure it would work so well with the Sarevok romance (given the writer stuck with his "power" attitude), given he's not really much of a "Jan lover".

[GeN1e]

I just want the option to 'break the fourth wall' more often than we get to in most of the game.

You're probably in minority here, I think, if you meant precisely 'breaking the fourth wall'. And seriousness, yes, as Onigami has pointed out, it doesn't have to be the wall breaking, Fallout is a living example of that.

[EpitomyofShyness]

I think we're getting off topic... Back to Sarevok?

[HighTimeRodeo]

I think we're getting off topic... Back to Sarevok?

Don't worry, Epitomy, it's an internet conversation, we'll eventually circle back around to our main topic... What was it again?

Seriously, though. ihgenspdjfghei....


Sorry, Labrador on the keyboard. Incest is a major thing to consider and there's also Sarevok's personality. Who knows Pen52? She, I think it's a she, wrote 'Choices' on Pocket Planes Fanfic Forum, she was fantastic at Sarevok's personality, maybe she'd be interested in writing him?

As for the Race Check....

There's half-elf and elf along with human and I think he's a bit too vain to consider a halfling or...er... whatever races there are...

As for Sarevok and <Charname> being related to each other as full brother and sister, I don't think that's possible. He's been described as having dark skin. At most they'd be half-brother and sister. And he does consider himself no longer a child of Bhaal. It wouldn't be unheard of for someone to use love as a control mechanism. I mean in effect, 'cause it sorta negates my whole argument for this mod, he used Tamoko's affection for him, and the subsequent losing of his affection for her, to make her attack <CHARNAME> in the first game. *scribbles that down* CE material.

Epitomy said he probably wouldn't be particularly loving, which is true and would be a good basis for 'lovetalk' or a fight.

Hmm, would 'Try a little tenderness' lyrics be appropriate here?

She was also right in the fact that Sarevok would probably bring up the whole 'we're related, hands off' thing. It might be awkward and there's also the fact that the other NPC's might object *coughAnomen,Keldorn,Jaheiracough*


You mentioned, Onigami that if your character made wisecracks from time to time, that you weren't sure it would work in the romance mod? In his A/C talk if you say 'The fact that it eats away at you is enough for me' he replies with 'you jest, but I would know the real reason'. And don't forget his slight teasing tone in a conversation with Imoen about her piece of soul affecting him. If the wisecracks were a little darker than Jan's endless babbling, then it might fly. Even supervillians have to laugh sometime. Even if it all it is a manical cackle.

And yes, I'm long winded.

Edited by HighTimeRodeo, 02 January 2009 - 09:45 AM.

[Cal Jones]

They're definitely not full brother and sister. And as for gnomes and halflings, Sarevok's supposed to be HUGE - possibly 7 foot, according to some sources, but I'd say at least 6'6" (2m) - so short races just wouldn't work. And we're back to that crack about trying to fit a lot into a small space.

Aaanyway... There's a lot of scope for stuff here. Due to the brevity of the expansion and the fact Sarevok has his alignment talks, it is probably easiest to tie his romance talks to actual events.
For example, 1 in Saradush, 1 tied to the wraith, 1 after Saradush falls, 1 after the 2nd Pocket Plane challenge (I find it amazing that he has nothing to say about that challenge in the vanilla game, so yes, something needed here), possibly 1 at the oasis after the battle there, 1 after meeting Balthazar, other tied to Sendai and Abazigal, and 1 after Cyric (I'd imagine he would be very interested in that).
A lot of people also play with Ascension, so I'd think it prudent to code some sort of variable where an evil Sarevok (if you're taking the evil path and haven't changed his alignement) will not betray you.
I'm not a coder, however, so I'm not sure how easy all this would be to pull off, but I'm sure it's possible since Longer Road seems to operate along similar lines. That particular mod seems to pack a lot into ToB so it's worth having a look at.
I'd be happy to contribute, at any rate, though my time is somewhat limited.

[GeN1e]

A lot of people also play with Ascension, so I'd think it prudent to code some sort of variable where an evil Sarevok (if you're taking the evil path and haven't changed his alignement) will not betray you.

I believe I did mention this already...

I've never risked not redeeming him after reading that he always betrayed you if you didn't.

I've played without Ascension only once. I always take Sarevok along. And I never asked for an oath. And a couple of times I played evil. Combined, this makes me to believe that it's not 'always'.

Edited by GeN1e, 02 January 2009 - 02:22 PM.

[EpitomyofShyness]

A lot of people also play with Ascension, so I'd think it prudent to code some sort of variable where an evil Sarevok (if you're taking the evil path and haven't changed his alignement) will not betray you.

I believe I did mention this already...

I've never risked not redeeming him after reading that he always betrayed you if you didn't.

I've played without Ascension only once. I always take Sarevok along. And I never asked for an oath. And a couple of times I played evil. Combined, this makes me to believe that it's not 'always'.

It is true. I have played where I didn't make him take the oath and he was evil and he didn't betray me. I think it depends on your point total or something like that, or whether or not you have showed any interest in becoming a god. I don't know for sure though, but he will not always betray you if he is evil and unoathed.

But playing Longer Road is a good idea. It is an outstanding mod with lot's of content.

[HighTimeRodeo]

A lot of people also play with Ascension, so I'd think it prudent to code some sort of variable where an evil Sarevok (if you're taking the evil path and haven't changed his alignement) will not betray you.

I believe I did mention this already...

I've never risked not redeeming him after reading that he always betrayed you if you didn't.

I've played without Ascension only once. I always take Sarevok along. And I never asked for an oath. And a couple of times I played evil. Combined, this makes me to believe that it's not 'always'.

It is true. I have played where I didn't make him take the oath and he was evil and he didn't betray me. I think it depends on your point total or something like that, or whether or not you have showed any interest in becoming a god. I don't know for sure though, but he will not always betray you if he is evil and unoathed.

But playing Longer Road is a good idea. It is an outstanding mod with lot's of content.

Yeah, it is, but I don't think that I could put up with Irenicus that long. And the fact that there's a lot of work to be done....

I have all the attention span of gnat .

And I was thinking just what you were Cal, about tying the talks to the events. Seems the best way to go.

By the by, I spun together a Dialog like we were talking about, 'tween Sarevok and <CHARNAME> about feelings and a 'tenderness talk', hopefully with enough paths for people, I'll post the Incest Dialog here. It is a is a little long, but I should look good. Here ya are!

(After Yaga-Shura Dream, before Rest)

Sarevok1: <CHARNAME>, I wish to speak to you. It concerns you and I. In private if you please.

PC1: What is it, Sarevok? +Change to First Challange Area+
PC1a: Now really isn't the greatest time, but...Go ahead, tell me. +Change to First Challange Area+
PC1b: Can this wait? I'd like to get a start on Amkethran.
PC1c: Not now, Sarevok.

Sarevok2-PC1: I have seen the way you watch me. I...Do not believe it appropriate. We are brother and sister. Such things are forbidden.
Sarevok2-PC1a: You watch me constantly and the look on your face... It's....not right.
Sarevok2-PC1b: No, it can't. We need to talk, now.
Sarevok2-PC1c: Yes, now.

PC2: Forbidden? *laughs* This coming from the man who tried to poison the iron stock of the Sword Coast.
PC2a: What look on my face? If I didn't know better, I'd say you were seeing things.
PC2b: Fine, fine, just make it short. +Change to First Challange Area+
PC2c: No, Sarevok, I have more important things to do than listen to you prattle.

Sarevok3-PC2: That was the past.. I consider you my sister, even if you do not consider me family. It is disconcerting to see a look of a certain longing or desire on your face when you stare at me.
Sarevok3-PC2a: Do not joke with me, sister. I will not tolerate it. You know exactly what I speak of and it will stop, here and now.
Sarevok3-PC2b: Short? All right. You want me the way a woman wants a man and I don't like it.
Sarevok3-PC1c: I have no intentions of prattling, dear sister. +Change to First Challange Area+

PC3: I thought you didn't get disconcerted. It would explain quite a bit.
PC3a: Tell me something, Sarevok, do you think you have enough power to control what I feel? Because that would be news to me.
PC3b: Now where the hell did that come from? Sarevok, have you been eating anything funny lately?
PC3c: You dragged me here and now your tongue seems tied. What the hell do you want?

Sarevok4-PC3: Jest as you will, sister, but you need think on how you feel....For me. I...Do not wish anything more than a sister.
Sarevok4-PC3a: And just how do you feel?
Sarevok4-PC3b: It's true. I've spent most of my life watching the faces of others, reading them, using them. I know the look of a woman in love, sister. I have no wish to see it on your face when you....Look at me.
Sarevok4-PC3c: How do you think of me?

PC4: It doesn't sound like that's the case. You're uncertain.
PC4a: I...can't put words to it... Not words that you like I imagine.
PC4b: What makes you think that? Why would I feel love for you?
PC4c: What? What the hell kind of question is that?

Sarevok5-PC4: I am not uncertain. We are.....We... We cannot be. Even if that was....How it felt.
Sarevok5-PC4a: Try me.
Sarevok5-PC4b: You tell me, sister. You're the one looking at me.
Sarevok5-PC4c: An honest question. How do you think of me?

PC5: Is it how you feel? You yourself have said you are no longer Bhaalspawn. And we have different mothers. How, then, are we related?
PC5a: Affection, lust, desire, longing... Hopeful fits in there somewhere too.
PC5b: I...wish I knew.
PC5c: Right now I find you annoying. I guess.....Well, you're my brother. It's sibling affection, I suppose. The same way I feel for Imoen. Why?

Sarevok6-PC5: Bhaal-
Sarevok6-PC5a: I see... How long?
Sarevok6-PC5b: Try.
Sarevok6-PC5c: *relieved and a little disappointed* I merely wished to see where I stood. Thank you. END

PC6: Took a form to conceive us both. On different mothers. Your shade of skin says that very clearly. I'll repeat, how, then, are we related?
PC6a: Oh, now you're just pushing it.
PC6b: You had it right. I....do want you as a woman wants a man. And like it or not, that is how I feel. Act as you will, my feelings are clear to me.

Sarevok7-PC6: Had we worked together in Baldur's Gate, perhaps we would have been siblings. Now, I-I think that....
Sarevok7-PC6a: *moves in close* How. Long?
Sarevok7-PC6b: As they are to me. The matter is closed. We will speak no further on this. END

PC7: We aren't connected. Genetically speaking. *reaches out*
PC7a: Since.... Since I saw you on the stage, just about to be crowned... I've never admitted it to anyone. I find you attractive. As do most women I imagine.

Sarevok8-PC7: *takes hand, screen goes to Rest Movie*
Sarevok8-PC7a: What do you wish to do about it?

PC8: Well, I am a woman of action....*screen changes to Rest Movie*

Whatdya think?

[GeN1e]

I'd definitely drop the 'genetically' term from a fantasy setting.

And, like I've said before - it's better to use the "node-several replies" model. Just in case


Node_1
Sarevok: we need to talk
PC1: what about? TO Node_2
PC2: i guess i know what's on your mind already. TO Node_3
PC3: not now TO Node_4

Node_2
Sarevok: well, about us being relatives
PC1: I'm listening TO Node_5
PC2: ah, that. well, i think so and so, blah-blah-blah. TO Node_6
PC3: uh, let's not TO Node_4

Node_3
Sarevok: and?
PC1: you mean, us being relatives. yes, that bothers me too. TO Node_6
PC2: nevermind, I've been imagining thing. what's up then? TO Node_5
PC3: on a second thought, let's concentrate on our quest. TO Node_4

Node_4
Sarevok: are you sure? that's an important issue to discuss.
PC1: alright, i'll listen out. GOTO Node_5
PC2: i am. let's go, bro. EXIT

Node_5
Sarevok: you see, so and so, blah-blah-blah...
PC1: you're making a solid point here. TO Node_6
PC2: but there's something you miss here. i'll tell you what's that - even more blah. TO Node_7
PC3: i wonder what my third dialog option should be. got any idea, Sarevok? TO Node_8

Node_6
Sarevok: it's good that you understand. but i'll say even more blah.
PC1: and i'll second your 'blah'. TO Node_7
PC2: i'm getting tired of it. let's instead get back to walking. EXIT

More nodes...


This example covers how one of dialog's themes could/should be written to look the way it looks in BG, Fallout, NWN, etc. All of this stuff just for one subject (and the dialog may include more than one), rather complex it is. My point is, unless you've posted only the meaningful lines (as the 'let's move on' doesn't really add much, that's an utility line), you'd need to reconstruct your tree to make it look BGish.

Edited by GeN1e, 02 January 2009 - 04:44 PM.

[HighTimeRodeo]

I know it's not the best way to write it, but otherwise I confuse myself and I get confused easily.

I was listening to '(Now I've had) The Time of My Life) from Dirty Dancing while I was writing it. Kinda funny, all considering.

[EpitomyofShyness]

I agree, you have to do it the Baldur's Gate way, otherwise it wouldn't feel like the game...

Overall I like it, the only thing I have is this, Sarevok would not stutter at any place at any time for any reason. Period. He may internally feel uncertainty, but he would never for any reason show it.

On a different subject. Someone mentioned the Alignment talks and how they are pretty random, well I think an idea I had could work for that. Maybe there is a way to code so the alignment talks happen in a specific order and after certain lovetalks if the Romance is Active, and if the romance ever ends they proceed as they normally would.

[Nix]

I think you shouldn't assume that the PC doesn't also have Sarevok's shade of skin. The PC could be of any hue of skin, from pale yellow to bright blue.

[Cal Jones]

Viconia actually used "genetically" in a dialogue about the PC and Imoen. But it does feel misplaced - the Forgotten Realms is a place of magic and some science (gnomish inventions, golems etc) but hardly molecular biology.