175 replies to this topic

[Qwinn]

Big new announcement in the Unfinished Business forum. Almost 100 previously unseen dialogue reintroduced to the game in the brand new UB component, Restored Lower Ward Encounters!

http://www.shsforums...mp;#entry427920


It's funny... virtually every mod prior to my own, and mine, all made tons of fixes to Hailcin'n's dialogue for a variety of reasons, but no one ever seemed to notice that he wasn't actually in the game!

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 01 December 2008 - 06:09 PM.

[Qwinn]

Hah! This is too funny not to share.

For days, I've been agonizing over issues with the two Harmonium officers that patrol all over the Lower Ward. As I noted earlier, I (tried to) fix the fact that you could kill citizens right in front of them and they'd do nothing. Their behavior was totally bizarre. Their AI was abysmal - they'd simply stop every few seconds - and they had all sorts of aggro issues, including the fact that, once you gave them a "Help Anyone" script, they'd aggro: (spoiler)

Spoiler

if you chased the wererats that stole Morte.

Today I was working with them, and discovered that I could actually -click on those guards- and they'd go -green circle-. I could tell them where to move, and if I drag-clicked to select a bunch of party members, they'd be included too! Essentially you can control them in combat as if they were party members, and yes, this is true in the vanilla game.

Turns out that instead of being "Enemy" or "Neutral", as almost all creatures are, they are listed as "Inanimate". Heh. Needless to say... Fixed.

EDIT: In fact, looking at their stats, they are completely "basic" undefined characters. AC 10 (despite the huge bulking armor), 9 in all stats, 20 on all saves, 10 hit points, 10 experience when killed, and that INANIMATE Enemy-Ally flag. With stats like that, Giltspur's customers should help -them- if attacked. Making their stats commensurate with normal Harmonium guards.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 02 December 2008 - 01:27 PM.

[Qwinn]

LOL...

If only I could stop finding bugs in the Lower Ward!

You must now actually -have- Giltspur's handbill in your possession in order for Scofflaw Penn to take it from you for the quest. Previously you could drop it somewhere, then "give" it to him.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 02 December 2008 - 04:25 PM.

[Qwinn]

Phew! Just made a big step forward...

One thing I was dreading was finding a bunch of issues with a certain fix (and this single fix alone is damn near big enough to count as a mod in itself, heh) that changed the "Alarm" settings in the Foundry so that Alarm1 (you've pissed the Godsmen off slightly) resets after you leave (as you'll notice they are all telling you to do in dialogue), and Alarm2 (you've aggroed the entire damn Foundry) resets after you leave and come back 2 days later, assuming you didn't actually kill anybody (in other words, you RAN AWAY).

For those who didn't hear about this before, this was all actually stipulated as "what was supposed to happen" by the original programmer of the Foundry in an email exchange I had with him. So, yes, this change was absolutely, positively intended, with only one exception listed below.

I coded all this a couple months ago, but never really had a chance to test it. Was dreading testing it, cause of how much there is to it, but looks to be working perfectly! Just did it, and here's some neat things about it:

In the Alarm 2 state, the Godsman Guards -outside- the Foundry, in the Lower Ward proper, will also aggro, and they'll also calm down after 2 days, but they will make doing -anything- near the Foundry in the Lower Ward pretty problematic in the meantime. If they see you, they'll start chasing you again. So that 2 day wait? You'll probably want to avoid the Lower Ward entirely as you wait it out, heh.

Actually -killing- a Foundry Godsman in cold blood, anywhere, will result in the Alarm2 state never wearing off. If they get upset enough about that sort of thing that

Spoiler

they'll execute the Factol's son

, they're hardly going to forgive -you- for it after two days. (Full disclosure: The Foundry programmer didn't say anything about this part, actually... this was my decision. I mentioned it in an email but he never replied to it, so I don't know if he approves of that tweak on my part or not, but really, it would feel very wrong to do it otherwise.)

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 02 December 2008 - 07:03 PM.

[Qwinn]

A couple of additional Foundry dialogue fixes. Both have to do with Bedai-Lihn. Spoilerish, so:

Spoiler

1) As soon as you enter the Foundry, you can ask Bedai-Lihn "Who are you?", and she'll reveal that the project is a weapon and she wants to stop it, even though she is completely secretive when asked related questions at the same time. This is clearly way way more information than she's supposed to give at that point. Putting a condition on asking that question so that you can't ask the question until you already know the TMI in her answer. (Actually, I'm thinking this is a bug in the dialog.tlk file - the string where she's supposed to answer the question with a more bland introduction of herself is instead a copy of the answer she properly gives after you know a lot more. I looked, but there's no dialogue entry that looks like a proper self-introduction that I could redirect that state to, so since I don't rewrite text in the Fixpack unless it's easily reconstructed from other strings, this fix will have to do. Besides, if I rewrite the string, my fix would only work in english until I get translations. This way, it's fixed for everybody.)

2) If you tell a Godsman guard that Bedai asked you to kill Sandoz, the guard tells you to hurry and tell Keldor... but sets the quest variable to "quest complete" so that it is impossible to tell Keldor about it or get the reward. Fixed.

Qwinn

[Qwinn]

Nother minor foundry fix:

Saros walks around the room where Keldor is speaking. At one point he stops in front of Keldor and then Saros says in floating text, "Saros! Good to see you!". Using my amazing deductive abilities, I have surmised that it is supposed to be Keldor that says that line, rather than Saros being delighted at his own presence. And so it be. Alas, the controversy will be heavy on this one, I expect.

Qwinn

[Daulmakan]

I guess I won't be installing this mod then.

[Qwinn]

Heheh.

Well, there's a whole mess of small issues with the Foundry murder investigation. People can mention things before you can know about them (try talking to Saros immediately after getting the quest), some dialogue lines can never be seen because the quest variables aren't updated, etc. All nice and smoothed out now.

Qwinn

[scient]

...rather than Saros being delighted at his own presence

There is also the possibility that it was suppose to be "Keldor! Good to see you!"? In this particular situation it is hard to tell what it was meant to be.

@Daulmakan: May I ask why? None of the last few altercations really seem to be overstepping the thin line between fixes and mods.

@Kaeln: Same thing, I'm curious as to what you take issue with?


On another note, I'm happy to say that so far engine side of bug fixes have been holding up with little to no problems. There was a minor fix regarding TNO bonus hp on revival that had to be nixed for now but besides that nothing has had to be altered. Yay!

[Qwinn]

Pretty sure they were both just playing along with the joke, scient

And hopefully it won't be that much longer. I know it seems like I'm taking forever here, but once I leave Sigil I don't expect to have a lot to do, I beat the snot out of all those areas in previous versions of the Fixpack and if there were problems with it I'd hopefully have heard of 'em by now.

Then again, somebody probably noticed a lot of these problems in the Lower Ward too... BUT DID ANYONE REPORT THEM? NOOOOOOO!

Hmph!

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 03 December 2008 - 04:54 PM.

[Daulmakan]

We're just playing along, scient. Seriously, me and Kaeln (and several others I figure) are waiting anxiously for the new release, which promises all kinds of goodies thanks to yours and qwinn's awesome work.

[scient]

Pretty sure they were both just playing along with the joke, scient

Oppps. Whoosh right over my head.

Then again, somebody probably noticed a lot of these problems in the Lower Ward too... BUT DID ANYONE REPORT THEM? NOOOOOOO!

I did! I did! Well, some of em.

[Qwinn]

There is also the possibility that it was suppose to be "Keldor! Good to see you!"? In this particular situation it is hard to tell what it was meant to be.

All other things being equal, the option that -doesn't- require a substantive change to the dialog.tlk file wins. What does "substantive" mean? One that would require changing all the translation files, rather than just grammar/punctuation corrections to the english version.

Besides, given their personalities, I find that sort of chipper greeting much more likely to be something Keldor (the cheerful old factor) would regularly say to Saros than Saros (the somewhat sulky alienated teenager) would say to Keldor.

I did! I did! Well, some of em.

True! You did!

If anyone wants to know who reported the problem about the two patrolling harmonium guards that sidetracked me for almost 2 days... *points at scient*... it was him!

*whistles and walks away*

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 03 December 2008 - 05:36 PM.

[Qwinn]

Wow, if anyone would like to see a major way to break a major Foundry quest (that is now fixed):

Spoiler

Get in the back room as early as you want, by either becoming a Godsman or pickpocketing the token from the supervisor. Talk to any of the weapon workers until they tell you what the project is. Then go to Keldor, and you will immediately have the option to tell him Bedai Lihn asked you to sabotage the weapon, whether you've ever even heard of her or not.

This is solved by having the weapon workers telling you it's a weapon not do anything to set the Sabotage quest variable, since a thorough review reveals the value it sets it to has no good purpose.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 04 December 2008 - 02:56 PM.

[Qwinn]

Adding a note for posterity:

If you -do- anger the Godsmen permanently by killing one, and you have not yet acquired the folding portal, you can still continue with the game, but you will have to kill the clerk for the portal. Naturally several other major quests will have been cut off permanently, but none of the others are critical to finishing the game.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 04 December 2008 - 11:00 PM.

[scient]

I've fixed a problem with my patch so TNO regains his bonus hp on death/revival. I devised a totally new and safer method that delays healing until after stats from bonus items get updated. My original patch tried to update the stats prior to healing which Qwinn found caused some issues.

A testament to my anal coding / tweaking so far everything else is solid.