I'm not sure whether this has been mentioned yet, but, regarding choosing to have an abortion, I seem to remember it being mentioned by an original character that there exists certain methods by which a magically inclined woman can prevent conception. Obviously, this would neatly avoid the issue of abortion. Whether abortion should still be an option for the sake of story is a different matter.
A... very sensitiveishish hypotheticat question :D
Started by Gospel, Aug 27 2002 04:20 AM
106 replies to this topic
#102
-A-Nonny-
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Posted 28 October 2003 - 12:15 PM
My mother was a teenage runaway, who ended up being raped. She could have ended her pregnency with abortion, and was in fact told that she probably should- but she didn't.
Now I'm in my late teens- and dang it, I'm happy. I've had hard times- my life certainly hasn't been easy- but things have worked out for me and her. Does it for everyone? No. But how many other people could have been like me- grown up through harsh or weird circumstances, and perserved but were instead killed by their own parents. Rape is a horrible horrible thing, and the child IS a reminder of it. Some people can't take that- but there are places where a child can be raised safely and happily if their parent cannot take care of them. And many more parents can get over the event by looking at their child- 'yes, it was horrible, and one of the worse things in my life, but I got something precious and beautiful out of it anyway'. There are hundreds of people out there who cannot have children, no matter what they do- so why do people destroy the gift that they do have (and a child is a gift- an exapserating and annoying as hell gift at times, but a gift anyway)?
On another subject, I can't see Imoen agreeing to abortion for one reason- her reaction to the death of the celled beings in the dungeon. It can be argued about whether a fetus is a human or not (personally, I say it is- brainwaves), but it is a living being. I can't see Imoen killing a five year old child of hers, and likewise, I can't see her killing a fetus- which is her child, a living being that she is 'raising' inside of her. It might not be 'human', but it's hers, and it's existing because of her. But what would I know?
In other thoughts, if you do decide to allow Imoen to romance a female PC, will there be someway that you two can have children- whether a divine blessing, magic, sex-changing, or adoption?
Now I'm in my late teens- and dang it, I'm happy. I've had hard times- my life certainly hasn't been easy- but things have worked out for me and her. Does it for everyone? No. But how many other people could have been like me- grown up through harsh or weird circumstances, and perserved but were instead killed by their own parents. Rape is a horrible horrible thing, and the child IS a reminder of it. Some people can't take that- but there are places where a child can be raised safely and happily if their parent cannot take care of them. And many more parents can get over the event by looking at their child- 'yes, it was horrible, and one of the worse things in my life, but I got something precious and beautiful out of it anyway'. There are hundreds of people out there who cannot have children, no matter what they do- so why do people destroy the gift that they do have (and a child is a gift- an exapserating and annoying as hell gift at times, but a gift anyway)?
On another subject, I can't see Imoen agreeing to abortion for one reason- her reaction to the death of the celled beings in the dungeon. It can be argued about whether a fetus is a human or not (personally, I say it is- brainwaves), but it is a living being. I can't see Imoen killing a five year old child of hers, and likewise, I can't see her killing a fetus- which is her child, a living being that she is 'raising' inside of her. It might not be 'human', but it's hers, and it's existing because of her. But what would I know?
In other thoughts, if you do decide to allow Imoen to romance a female PC, will there be someway that you two can have children- whether a divine blessing, magic, sex-changing, or adoption?
#103
Quitch
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Perfection
Posted 29 October 2003 - 12:27 AM
OK, without wanting to enter an argument about abortion (a subject that really isn't an issue in the UK anywhere near as much as the US), I'd say that these are two entirely different things. Imoen is talking to the creatures in the jars, they existed once as people and remind you by talking at you about their life. A child carried within someone is different. The child doesn't talk, you can't see it, it hasn't lived, and starts off life as a lumb of goo (to simplfy) which eventually turns into a child.
Which do you think is easier to end? Not only that, but it depends on the person as to whether it is considered ending or not. Many people do not consider the "thing" to have lived yet, and therefore they consider it no different to having worn protection, killing millions of little sperm and an egg.
Anyway, keep this debate to Imoen's (and the Faerun's) perceptions of abortion, I don't want to hear anything about them outside this context.
Which do you think is easier to end? Not only that, but it depends on the person as to whether it is considered ending or not. Many people do not consider the "thing" to have lived yet, and therefore they consider it no different to having worn protection, killing millions of little sperm and an egg.
Anyway, keep this debate to Imoen's (and the Faerun's) perceptions of abortion, I don't want to hear anything about them outside this context.
Past: Ascension, Return to Windspear, Imoen Relationship, The Broken Hourglass
"Perfection has no deadline"
#104
-Lensman-
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Posted 29 October 2003 - 04:51 AM
Hmmmm.
Well, to be honest, I simply cannot see Imoen being willing to give up a child that she conceived with someone she loves (that being the PC). I'm pretty sure she'd get rather emotional about it were she asked to, though she may be persuaded by the fact that the road is no life for an infant. I'm almost certain she'd regret the decision though, and maybe resent the PC for talking her into it.
There is, however, one possible way she may be willing. The PC and Imoen are both Bhaalspawn. I imagine the taint would be transferred to the child from each of them, especially given that the PC alone has gained the ability to turn into the Slayer, and who knows what Imoen has become. If some sort of seer or something were to reveal the consequences of this child being born (the consequences being very bad, of course) it could certainly raise some issues regarding abortion as an option to prevent the later badness.
As for the perceptions of Faerun towards abortion, I suspect it would be something that is well known, but not talked about openly. Given the probable availability of magical preventions and abortion agents, I expect the individual's perceptions in Faerun towards it would be more or less the same as anyone elses - very varied.
I doubt there would be any laws concerning this, due to the secretive and rather embarrassing nature of the issue, so even for the Good aligned characters, it will be more of a balance of morals, rather than a legal related issue, and evil characters will probably want it aborted, unless of course the child is some sort of devil-child.
Well, to be honest, I simply cannot see Imoen being willing to give up a child that she conceived with someone she loves (that being the PC). I'm pretty sure she'd get rather emotional about it were she asked to, though she may be persuaded by the fact that the road is no life for an infant. I'm almost certain she'd regret the decision though, and maybe resent the PC for talking her into it.
There is, however, one possible way she may be willing. The PC and Imoen are both Bhaalspawn. I imagine the taint would be transferred to the child from each of them, especially given that the PC alone has gained the ability to turn into the Slayer, and who knows what Imoen has become. If some sort of seer or something were to reveal the consequences of this child being born (the consequences being very bad, of course) it could certainly raise some issues regarding abortion as an option to prevent the later badness.
As for the perceptions of Faerun towards abortion, I suspect it would be something that is well known, but not talked about openly. Given the probable availability of magical preventions and abortion agents, I expect the individual's perceptions in Faerun towards it would be more or less the same as anyone elses - very varied.
I doubt there would be any laws concerning this, due to the secretive and rather embarrassing nature of the issue, so even for the Good aligned characters, it will be more of a balance of morals, rather than a legal related issue, and evil characters will probably want it aborted, unless of course the child is some sort of devil-child.
#105
fallen_demon
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barely untraind assasian
Posted 06 June 2004 - 11:03 PM
Or if the baby is born ingame. PC and Imoen aren't capable of seteling down quite yet (and they don't know if they'll ever have a chance), so whether or not the child is born it would have to be given up, and considering the lack of orphanages you run into that would mean ditching the said child on the street, where it could very likely die of hunger anyway.
And if killing the child before it is self concious is preventing a life, wouldn't everymoment you don't (impregnate a woman/get pregnant) be the same thing.
And if killing the child before it is self concious is preventing a life, wouldn't everymoment you don't (impregnate a woman/get pregnant) be the same thing.
"I choose to believe what I was programed to believe."
Futurama quotes rock
Futurama quotes rock
#106
Dalis'ilhea
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so, if I was to eat this I'd see the ghosts that haunted me?
Posted 07 June 2004 - 06:13 AM
Thinking about it we're all geneticly modified because we're the next generation from our parents if you were to speed up the growth and life of people to say five years you're likely to see changes in each consective generation if you looked hard enough and as for abortion, I say before it develops the ability to think and learn, I was born early but the stage I was born at was at a stage where I was able to start learning because I believe that being able to learn is one of the most primitive forms of concsciensnes there is
I apparently have a high level of empathy, combined with a low level of sympathy... weird
In the wake of destruction progress is made
I am who I am, and none shall change me
In the wake of destruction progress is made
I am who I am, and none shall change me
#107
-Drasius-
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Posted 13 June 2004 - 05:35 AM
Isn't it simple enough to have Imoen using whatever method of magical contraception is available for adventuring types on the road? This would avoid the whole would/wouldn't abortion topic.Anyway, keep this debate to Imoen's (and the Faerun's) perceptions of abortion, I don't want to hear anything about them outside this context.
It would then simply be a matter of deciding to include a conversation about children or not. If you think Imoen would be of a view that having a child with their lifestyle would be appropriate, then have a dialouge, if not, either don't include it, or make it clear that it's not going to happen.
If she does want children, then it becomes a matter of what PC thinks. Should PC desire children, the simply state as much, then it comes down to timing. Have something like:
Dialouge 1
1)Yes Imoen, I want children someday=>Dialouge 2
2)I don't think that our lifestyle is very conductive to that sort of thing right now Imoen=>go to dialouge after everything is said and done perhaps, ie sometime in ToB
3)No Imoen, I can't see children in my/our future=>Whatever reply you want
4)Evil option/s for manipulation/dominance which I am not clever enough to think of at the moment
Dialouge 2
give options on when, ie:
1)Why, are you trying to tell me something?(cliche, I know, but you're the writing genius, not me)
2)Sometime, once all of this is finished, yes, I imagine us to have x amount of children
3)Pervy option, "getting started right on that right now" or variant of.
If you do want kids, either she stops taking whatever contraception she is currently taking, or she falls pregnant despite it, a sure sign of the gods that it is meant to be(take your pick, cliche or reasoning, your choice) or if you decide to wait until this is over, you have more conversations about what will happen once this is finished, what you will do, where you will go, what it's name is going to be etc.
If you want to delay your decision, the option is there.
If you don't want kids/don't like the idea, she keeps taking whatever she is taking, and nothing comes of the discussion.
This all comes back to if Imoen would want kids or not. Personally, I think she would, though I'm not sure if she would actively encourage it while on the whole destiny quest thing. If it happened however, I don't think there would be a force powerful enough to stop her making whatever adjustments needed to suit that change in her life.
If we really must come back to the abortion thing, then I'll put my 2 cantrips worth in and say that I would find it very out of character for her to consider an abortion for even a second.
Far to much bloody moralising in this thread, just argue about if Imoen would or wouldn't and keep it to that like Quitch said.
