106 replies to this topic

[LSWSjr]

Can we just stop this already and get back to talking about the mod, I mean that's the point of this forum. It's called the "Imoen Relationship" forum not the "Debate Right To Life" forum, if you would wish to continue this move over to The Fridge.

I mean if we are going to continue this debate here, at least we should relate it to the Protagonist and Imoen's relationship.

LSWSjr of LSWSjr Publications OZ Mark 2, in Australia signing off

[Unvoiced Anarchy]

You witness a car accident, the guilty one flees. Nobody else's around, the victim lays
on the street.
Sure, the accident wasn't caused by you, but still you're supposed to help the victim,
call for medics, wait there and do what you can to help the injured.
It is stated, to be clearer, that the value of a life weighs higher than your time, your work
and all the duties you have to lose standing there, even if you are not guilty.
Extending the concept (which doesn't come from me in the first place), pregnant girls, even
if unwilling, should be considered like the keepers of the new life, the only persons who
can help the being 'till the time comes when somebody else can take care of it.
Of course, they should even be supported in all the possible ways by the rest of the society.

1. A car accident is on a completely different page then rape find a better example. The woman is the primary victim not an unwilling spectator to a hit and run and a mother looses alot more than a passerby even if they do give up the child.

2. Some women are so tramatized by the rape that they would see the pregnancy a more of an STD than a new life.

3. A rape victim may be ashamed and not wish to come forward and a confidential abortion is a good way to pretend nothing has happend and try and continue her life.

4. Society is cruel. You can't expect society to provide for everyone. It does enough to make it's constituents feel better about themselfs and forgets the rest. (Don't take this as a cue for a nother topic of debate )

[Unvoiced Anarchy]

I'm going to be honest here. I would have far MORE guilt on my soul about that than I would about aborting a 2 week old ball of cells. And at 2 weeks, it is little more than that.

Who is qualified to make that ussumption?

[LSWSjr]

Littiz, could you please disable this Unvoiced Anarchy with a quick cut from your wit and wisdom, he is starting to prove a greater problem than we may have originally thought.

I would love for you to bury this young one with words learned from the experience of an older life such as yourself.

I ask this only because Quitch seems not to attack when you combat others, while in my case I feel he expects more from me?!? Although don't quote me on it.

LSWSjr of LSWSjr Productions Australia, wishing Littiz on future victories and signing off

[Unvoiced Anarchy]

Ha Ha Ha
You make it all worth while

[Gospel]

I'm going to be honest here.  I would have far MORE guilt on my soul about that than I would about aborting a 2 week old ball of cells.  And at 2 weeks, it is little more than that.

Who is qualified to make that ussumption?

Anyone with the ability to express their opinion, rrrr

[Unvoiced Anarchy]

Anyone with the ability to express their opinion, rrrr

Yeah that is an opinion but how can you be sure.
I was not trying to make anyone (other than littiz ) look stupid.
I was just trying to express a point.
When does a fetus become a human being?
To assume that point in developement is to play god.

[Gospel]

To assume that point in developement is to play god.

No, it's to assume a point in development

I don't believe in God, not everyone does

[LSWSjr]

Littiz, could you please disable this Unvoiced Anarchy with a quick cut from your wit and wisdom, he is starting to prove a greater problem than we may have originally thought.

I would love for you to bury this young one with words learned from the experience of an older life such as yourself.

You must be joking.

Now Cybersquirt...

While it is true that I usually say much in jest, I don't mind motivating others with ego massage, so that they might carry out a task I cannot. Especially if it is a friend such as Littiz... B)

Furthermore when given the choice to side either with a debating opponent I consider a friend, or one I don't consider as such, I choose the friend/rival rather than the rival.

LSWSjr of LSWSjr Productions Australia, signing off

[Unvoiced Anarchy]

To assume that point in developement is to play god.

No, it's to assume a point in development

I don't believe in God, not everyone does

Yet to have the power over the life or death of a being, no matter how minute or unclasified in terms of humanity that life is, you play god . Whether you beleive in god or not isn't a requiremet.

Human life is there.
You might say it only has potential for human life yet it does live and can be calssified as human as it does grow into a child.
Haveing the choice to decide whether a human life lives or dies is playing god.

[Gospel]

It is a requirement

Otherwise, what am I playing? A... G-o-d? What is that?

You assume that a fetus is already human, are you playing a G-o-d?

[Kish]

Yet to have the power over the life or death of a being, no matter how minute or unclasified in terms of humanity that life is, you play god .

By that logic, stepping on ants is playing god. You are having power over the life or death of a minute being not classified as human...though with an intellectual capacity certainly greater than that of a two-week old fetus.

[Littiz]

@Unvoiced Anarchy:
The simple existance of this debate proves that life has a relative value.
Everyone has different opinions.
My point was simply: given the fact that (mostly) people state that life is the absolute value,
then they should have the guts to remain coherent with their words.
As I am capable to do.
*If* human life is the most precious thing, everything else is secondary by definition.
With the exception of another human life.
Either that, or they should be clear from the start:
"Life is expendable relatively to the context".
No need for me to use cool words about values, and then find all the necessary exceptions when need arises.
About defining when a human life starts, really, people try for their convenience to complicate the easiest of the matters.
Human life starts from its beginning.

About my ego.. I was out to play with my band these days, had fun, signed a couple of autographs,
and answered to people who wanted to know "where the hell did you learn to play that way?!?".
This to immodestly say that I don't need to satisfy my ego "beating" someone in this forum.
About proving my stupidity, I suggest you wait at least for my intelligence to fade away...B)

@LSWSjr:
I (think I) appreciate your words, BTW, I don't feel like anyone's rival.
I'm ready to peace as much as I am to war, you can testify, and my last message to Cybersquirt,
which got no replies, can testify as well.

Oh, I'm 26 and a half, anyway
End.
I won't post anymore about things unrelated to BG2.

[LSWSjr]

As always Littiz, you are friend to me, with whom I like to spar with occasionaly, for you have the talent to offer a passionate debate at all times.

Please note that as long as you know what big words mean, it is alright to use them and let that be a message to all.

On an Imoen Relationship Module note: I think the choice should be left open to the Protagonist and Imoen, rather than taking on side or the other, or merely have them use some form of magical contraception in the first place.

LSWSjr of LSWSjr Productions Australia, signing off

[Quitch]

On an Imoen Relationship Module note: I think the choice should be left open to the Protagonist and Imoen

Since I intend to allow the player to do pretty much as they wish, any debate on the point should focus on whether Imoen would ever consider a proposal/advance from her sibling.

There won't be any glass ceiling marked "Moral limit". Tear out her throat for all I care.

[ak404]

I'm inclined to agree. Let's put it this way: Imoen didn't find out that she and the PC were related until fairly late in the game. There're already bonds of friendship, but not of family.

I'm more or less of the opinion that the PC and Imoen can do whatever they want.

[LSWSjr]

Two Suggestions for a Protagonist's proposal towards having a child, for later in a Romance-inclined path for the Module:

Male Protagonist:

"Imoen, have you ever considered maybe starting a family one day?"

w/, w/o Imoen interaction at this point.

"It is a thought that has crossed my mind for some time and has arisen once more, due to the current circumstances of our relationship with each other."


Female Protagonist:

"Imoen, would you have it, if we would be able to share a child (by magic or adoption) with each other and in turn build on our family in that sense?"


LSWSjr of LSWSjr Productions Australia, signing off.