106 replies to this topic

[Quitch]

You just killed someone without asking his opinion, it's that simple, really

So you're pro-life? If you don't regard yourself as such then I think you've rather missed the point of what the abortion debate has been about for so very long.

[Littiz]

So you're pro-life? If you don't regard yourself as such then I think you've rather missed the point of what the abortion debate has been about for so very long.

Oh well lucky me, then
People remember values when it's "fashion", or when they are the victims.
I'm not an attivist, I don't go to manifestations, I'm not even "left-winged" you know.
True that people get killed everyday, I can't fight it. To the conscience of each.

Anyway I like to see things from a scientific perspective.
Abortion is a fake problem, why use redundant definitions for things that have already
a name. Just check the definition itself of life and you'll see my meaning.
Diablo laughed cause he considered evident that someone doesn't agree to get killed.
My point, simply! "but he'll be poor, he'll have a handicap". Then why don't we apply such
arguments to adults as well? I tell you why: they want to live nonetheless!

I don't want to put it longer than this, but it was yesterday news, two doctors got 20
years of prison for illegal abortions. If they made "the work" just a few months ahead,
they wouldn't have been considered killers and would have received their honest pay! Truth is,
people want it to ease life, and politicians by popular demand conform to it, so they just
decide a completely senseless deadline: before that,it's legal. Now, THIS is laughable

[El Diablo]

Then why don't we apply such
arguments to adults as well?

Indeed why not?
im promoting this for years the only problem is who do we consider weak enough that they will cause damage to our gene pool, judging that is a very difficult

[El Diablo]

mmm maybe this discussion should be moved before Quitch gets pissed for turning his mod forum in to a political debate

[Quitch]

Truth is,
people want it to ease life, and politicians by popular demand conform to it, so they just
decide a completely senseless deadline: before that,it's legal. Now, THIS is laughable

All our life is decided by deadlines of age, why do you disagree with this one but not others?

[LSWSjr]

My point, simply! "but he'll be poor, he'll have a handicap". Then why don't we apply such
arguments to adults as well? I tell you why: they want to live nonetheless!

But Littiz what do you say of the hundreds of individuals, handicapped or otherwise, who don't wish to live, those who would like nothing more than to cease to exist.

To go further with the case of abortion, you do not give a choice to the unborn child on wheather they live or die in an abortion situation, but could they comprehend it if they did.

Its the point that by the time they have the sentience to make that decision for themselves that the taking of their life is considered illegal.

It should also be noted that a unborn child should be aborted have they conditions that will limit the life in the first place, some children that will never get a real chance to grow and develop anyway, or those with mental or physical handicaps so terrible that their life would be for nought.

Not to say anything bad about you and your mannerisms, Littiz my friend, but why are you usually the cause of us all getting sidetracked??? Okay, okay, I know that I started this argument with my earlier post, but still...

LSWSjr of the New & Improved LSWSjr Publications, Australia signing off

[LSWSjr]

Strange as is may seem, good ol' Gospel has offered up an interesting idea... Simply allowing the Protagonist and Imoen to share a pet instead, as it would act as a symbolic child that they would care for.

The reason for this concept to be a choice idea is, that it would not drag the whole incest childbirth issue back into the fray. Thus negating the abortion issue as well...

And Quitch, maybe you could even name the pet if a cat, as Gospel after it's Godlike creator.

Good Job Gospel *offers large quantity of cat nip*

LSWSjr of the New & Improved LSWSjr Publications, Australia signing off

[Gospel]

Thankies, sir ^_^

But... oh, no no no's ;_; Cameo not desewve no no's not no's no's :(

[Littiz]

@Diablo:
you're ready to slaughter half of the world, and you're worried about asking
permission to Quitch to write a few lines? Funny.
The selection mechanism is no more active for humans, here you're right. Society takes
care of the weaker elements. But also "weaker elements" may help society (ex: Stephen Hawking).
Actually, soon we'll develop directly our own evolution through genetics, there's no
need to select or kill anybody.

@Quitch:
I'm not sure I see yor meaning. Are you talking about things like the 21 years needed
to drink? I've never said I agree to those, either. Here in Italy if you're under 18 years
you may kill anybody with almost no-consequences. This is also laughable, of course.
Anyway we're speaking about something a little more definitive.
Again, I pressure you to find some definitions about the "life" concept.
You'll see that apart from the fact that a life *IS* continuous evolution and mutation
through the interaction with the "external world" (so it's not a succession of discrete states),
it does have two (and *ONLY* two) discrete, recognizable ends.

@LSWSjr: I say ask them. Free choice. No problems there.
Without further information, we must assume everyone wants to live. It's called instinct.
You don't cover your face while falling 'cause you think about it.
Unborn kids want to live probably more than you do. All the struggle of the being in
that moments is towards existance.
And don't forget that after being born, a child is still totally (physically and mentally)
dependant to his mother, and cannot give his opinions. So, that logic would permit
his suppression even at this stage.

Anyway, forgive me for my "mannerism", but, really, last time I was accused of racism,
this time I've done nothing more than giving my point, as much as you did.<_<
Anyway I'm not imposing any moral, only stating the correct name for things.

[El Diablo]

Actually, soon we'll develop directly our own evolution through genetics, there's no
need to select or kill anybody.

on this i tottaly agree genetics are a wonderfull thing
though even this folk wanna tottaly prevent
of course i think that adapting unborn kids the way the parents want them to be is a bad thing but too use it to make sure our race doesn't fade away (due to a ice age or something) is great
i say its just the new way of life to make up for lack of evolution

[Raistlin]

Just the fact that its arousing such debates is enough to leave the morality of it as a case-by-case basis. Don't agree with abortions? Fine, don't get one and keep your opinion to yourself. Agree with them, get one. You have no right to let your morality affect the lives of other people who think differently and have different opinions.

Now, of course, you'll argue the same towards the unborn fetus. Perhaps we can argue about the killing of bacteria using household cleaning products next?

[Quitch]

Don't agree with abortions? Fine, don't get one and keep your opinion to yourself. Agree with them, get one. You have no right to let your morality affect the lives of other people who think differently and have different opinions.

A view which would make murder acceptable.

[FlatulentOne]

Okay...As most of you likely know, I am a father. As to Pro-life/Choice, I really haven't been able to come to a clear stance on this, being a man. But my wife and I did NOT plan her pregnancy. Abortion never came up. What she carried was a part of me from the moment we knew he was there, and it doesn't even bear stating that he was a part of her, that being completely obvious. The very thought of killing my own unborn child, and in my heart I know the blood would be on my hands, no matter what, tears me apart. I would much prefer a dialouge option that PREVENTED a pregnancy from occurring, regardless of how game-breaking it may seem, than the outright slaughter of the unborn. I apologize if the manner of stating this is offensive, but I cannot see it any other way.
And to answer any questions, I do not believe that I have any right to decide wether or not abortion should be an option, as I am incapable of bearing children. Thus I am neither Pro life or Pro choice politically. In my heart, however, I am Pro-Life.
I am aware that this is only a game, and an optional component as well, but I beg that you consider the sensitivity of this issue.

[Quitch]

As I have said before, I aim to offer options which have bearing on the situation. I do not plan to judge those options, nor offer only ones I consider "acceptable".

[Littiz]

@Raistlin:
You missed the point of my posts (not that you have to care, of course ).
It's not my concern if you hold bacteria as the most valuable beings in the universe.
And why not, after all. I've embraced mechanicism MANY years ago, living beings are for me
no more than "complicated things". There's no scientific argument to value a living being
more than, say, a rock. No one, really, you can search as much as you want.
So it's a personal thing, let's say "personal taste", if now I decide that
I *like* the concept of human life. Or life alone. Personal taste.

I only explained that abortion is, by any possible definition, a homicide.
Give to this fact whatever moral implications you prefer, my work is done.
I simply notice that many nations consider homicide (while not "bactericide")
an illegal act, so allowing abortion is contradictory.

In truth, I've not yet given my complete and personal opinion on the matter, this
is not the place, but I had to rectify facts

[LSWSjr]

Unborn kids want to live probably more than you do.
Anyway, forgive me for my "mannerism", but, really, last time I was accused of racism,
this time I've done nothing more than giving my point, as much as you did.

Littiz my dear friend, I have but a few more words to add.

Firstly I agree that newborn children may want to live even more than I do...

Secondly I agree with your theory of a survival instinct but still only on the basis of Tabula Rasa. The theory in which children are born without memories, only insticts, survival being #1. In total they are born with a Tabula Rasa, a "Black Slate", yet this would mean that the child would not be able to consider such choices of life and death, as I said earlier. This theory also suprisingly comes from your country of origin.

And last what I stated after my initial post was in jest, and it should be reminded that it was not I who called you racist, but an employee of my organisation who managed to gain access to my forum id and make posts.

I also noted that I was the one who started this abortion debate, only shortly after Gospel's initial postings.

LSWSjr of the New & Improved LSWSjr Publications, Australia signing off

[Littiz]

@LSWSjr:
I know, don't worry, no problems for me
Anyway, I know grown adults whose mind is still a Tabula Rasa, yet they're granted
full rights to live...

[chevalier des Trois-Tours]

I'm sure Immie kitty *likes* kiddies!
Why on earth should she love that egoistic swashy of yours??

Right. Abortion? She's NG!

[alustriel]

I'm afraid that being NG has very little bearing on it Chev. That's quite the generalization based on some arbitrary gaming rules.