11 replies to this topic

[Yakkuz]

Some times ago, reading the Dan Simmons 1.81 walkthrougt i noticed that this NPC could give you a bonus of +5 at pickpocketing if you try to pickpocket it and fail...but i was NEVER able to get it working...i try hundreds of time, try also the game without any fix, without translation in a new game..it keeps attacking me if i fail.

Is it simply bugged or am i missing something? Which are the condition that trigger the event? I must have pickpocket under a certain level? Or i must have not learned the trick from Annah?

Thanks for your patience.

[Qwinn]

Okay, I've duplicated your problem. He -is- supposed to start dialogue and potentially teach you if you fail to pickpocket him, but it doesn't appear to be working. Let me play around and see if I can fix it.

Qwinn

[Yakkuz]

No, i try to pickpocket him before i persuade him to move to the Festhall, and he's always turning hostile to me. I have to try in Festhall, however i did never try there because i found some info on net telling that you could get the bonus ONLY if you pickpocket him before he return to the Festhall. I Read it on some forums time ago and on a document by Per Jorner. I'll attach it to the post, i think the part related to PST could be of some use, maybe. The line regarding Eli Havelock is 1041

Attached Files

•  infinity.txt   145.26K   1629 downloads

Edited by Yakkuz, 04 August 2008 - 08:38 AM.

[Qwinn]

Wow, that's some -awesome- material, thank you! I never saw that file before. I'll go over it and see if there's any additional bugs I can find and fix quickly for this release.

That said, I just tested the snot out of the Eli Havelock thing, and I can report the following:

1. The Eli pickpocket thing relies on a trigger called "PickPocketFailed", which is completely, utterly broken. I beat the hell out of it, tried all sorts of different parameters, and it simply does nothing. The IESDP confirms that that trigger "seems to be broken".

2. IF the trigger actually worked, then Per would be correct in that Eli would only respond to a pickpocket attempt outside of the Festhall, as the scripts in the Festhall lack that trigger that attempts to do respond to a failed pickpocket attempt. His script in the Clerk's Ward contains such a trigger block, but as I said, it's broken and does nothing. That said, IF it worked in the Clerk's Ward, you still wouldn't get the pickpocket bonus - he would just catch you and warn you off. It was only meant to give you the skill increase once he'd agreed to train you and moved to the Festhall. Per probably looked at the script, noticed that only his scripts outside have that block, and assumed that it would actually work, and that's why he said what he did.

3. Since it's clear that the designers -intended- you to be able to get such a bonus from Eli, I may add a dialogue version, where if you are a thief when you talk to him you get the option to pickpocket him in dialogue (just as you can do with Able Ponderthought). I'm inclined to do this since I fixed/removed the major bonuses you could erroneously get from Lenny, and since it shouldn't require actually adding any new strings to the dialogue file.

Qwinn

[Yakkuz]

The Strange thing is thato also in Dan Simpson guide it's reported...

Convince Eli to return to the Festhall to train once more for 12,000
experience. If you pickpocket him and fail, he might train you for +5
pickpocket (or he might get mad at you and threaten to attack, I've seen
both). Of course, if your pickpocketing succeeds, you don't have to worry
about it.

It's very strange that Dan uses "might" and that he has seen the two reaction himself...

I am also pretty sure i have read of it on some forums (yes, some years ago i WAS REALLY OBSESSED by this thing ...well...it seems i AM obesessed )..so..there are several people that have SEEN this dialogue/bonus...i wonder why..cause i try it hundreds of time (an entire day of re-loading -.-) and he NEVER react as it should...


OT: What is the exploit of Lenny? I can't remember...

Thanks a lot

[Qwinn]

That -is- weird. I can't make him do it either. And as I said, even if the PickLockFailed trigger worked, it's not in his Festhall scripts, and if he's outside the Festhall, the dialogue takes you to the state where he simply says "The man thrusts his finger at you. "Watch yourself, berk... most bloods would kill you or call the hardheads for that. Now pike off before I reconsider and draw steel." I don't see any possible way that someone could have gotten that bonus with the game as it exists in unmodded version 1.1.

Hmmmm... wait. It occurs to me that if someone miraculously got the trigger to fire outside, this would set the "I've been pickpocketed" variable... -and if you then talked to him again and sent him into the Festhall-, and talked to him again there, he might "remember" that pickpocket attempt and give you the bonus then. That's... possible. It would seem rather strange, though, as his reaction to you pickpocket attempt would occur a while after the actual attempt. Only way I can imagine it though.

EDIT: Nope, actually, I don't think that would work either. Once you pickpocket him outside, he should never say anything else to you except the line I quoted in the first paragraph. So no, I still can't see how anybody ever did it, unless maybe it was doable before the version 1.1 patch.

Qwinn

P.S. Lenny would train you and give you the same bonuses that every -other- trainer gives you when you first become a thief, even if you'd already been one before. The exact same boosts (something like 16 pickpocket, 21 stealth, 18 traps, etc.) The fact that they are exactly the same as the "You have just acquired the thief class, here's your starting thief stats" boosts that you get from every other trainer convinced me that it was a bug.

Edited by Qwinn, 04 August 2008 - 10:50 AM.

[Qwinn]

That list you posted was great. Here's an abridged version containing just the PS:T stuff, and I went through it and added a note to each one. There are indeed a few issues mentioned there that I was unaware of. Something to do for version 3.0.

I think the guy who wrote it, Per, still hangs out on the Fallout boards, I'll leave him a note there and point him to this post.

Qwinn

Attached Files

•  PerBuglist.doc   70K   594 downloads

Edited by Qwinn, 04 August 2008 - 10:56 AM.

[Yakkuz]

I'm really happy it could be useful , however, here his website: http://user.tninet.se/~wcw454p/ , reading the first part of the document i think He may be very happy knowing someone consider his list, finally.

For the Thief trainer thing...i never noticed that the boost was the same...till now I think that it's working as intended...'cause just every Other -Master Thief- the firt time you train with them, will teach you their -tricks- .

However when i have some spare time i'll try the pickpocket thing with Ps:T 1.0, without any official or unofficial patches (hoping that using tome O' cheat to teleport to the Clerk Ward don't mess up everything).

[Qwinn]

'cause just every Other -Master Thief- the firt time you train with them, will teach you their -tricks- .

No, this isn't the case. All the other thief trainers will only give you those boosts if they are the very first master thief to initially train you to be a thief. Those boosts are your "starting thief stats". Other thief trainers can still do things for you - Annah can teach you some tricks, and Lenny will give you something nice if you have him make you a thief even after my fix, but the set of starting stat boosts only happen if they're the first master thief to -ever- train you, not just the first time they themselves train you. Lenny is the only one who gives you those exact same boosts whether you've trained previously or not, and as such I believe it is a bug.

Qwinn

[Yakkuz]

Oh, ok then, i misunderstand, I was thinking every trainer will do the same , 'cause , as i say, i really never focused on the matter and don't remember that clearly (probably because i was TOO obsessed with eli, damn little bastard that eated one third of my life existance ).

Edited by Yakkuz, 04 August 2008 - 12:48 PM.

[Qwinn]

Have already implemented fixes to a few of the more serious bugs I learned about from Per's list, and they will be in the upcoming 2.0 release:

1) Diligence calling for guards will now actually call for the guards (as opposed to Matter-Of-Course, her bodyguard, just standing there as she goes hostile).

2) Angering one of the Smoldering Corpse Bar Mercykillers in dialogue will now get all the Mercykillers on you, not just one at a time.

3) Telling TO that you will use his true name to unmake him will no longer set off a long pre-fight cutscene before rolling the ending movies.

4) Bestiary entry for Midwife restored.

5) The Remove Curse spell - both priest and mage - will now ignore magic resistance (Vhailor would always resist this spell previously)

6) You must actually use the Dreambuilder before you can tell Kesai-Serrai about it now. Prior to this fix, you could tell her details about the dream as soon as you were given the quest to build the Dreambuilder.

7) The spell Mechanus Cannon will no longer have a saving throw (the description said that it both did and didn't).

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 04 August 2008 - 09:02 PM.

[Qwinn]

Another fix to a bug mentioned in Per's buglist will go into 2.0:

8 ) When encountering Wizard Rubikon, the variables tracking whether Nordom was present to hear the fate of the Director were reversed. If he wasn't there, in later conversations Nordom would discuss it as if he had been present to hear the wizard admit it, and vice versa.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 09 August 2008 - 01:55 PM.