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My Big World experience


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#21 Hoppy

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 12:56 PM

Rhinalto was easy to beat if you wait for him to wild magic himself to a squirrel. Plus I had Xan as Sorcerer and he could use the book.
?May God defend me from my friends; I can defend myself from my enemies.? - Voltaire

"If you think that a size of the mod indicates an amount of bugs that it introduces and their severity you're totally wrong...
Try not to use next time a load of shitty "super-mega-improving-tweaking-revising" small mods that you have installed and try to meet Wulfgar once again."
- King Diamond


Posted Image The Definitive Guide to Trolls

"Finding food and a place to sleep is your own business. I imagine Paul the Cat should have some fun with you, too" - Potencius in The Darkest Day
"You have been warned, little bastard!" -Khelben to a young <CHARNAME>in Check the Bodies
There are those who will snivel, and offer nothing in return except criticism, meanwhile never lifting a finger to do other than to cut other peoples labor down simply for the fact that they lack the capability to put anything of their own together. -erebusant

#22 Leomar

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 02:15 PM

I think we forget, and a Mega/BiG install reminds us, that low-level parties have to run away from some fights -- and some fights are won by not fighting, so to speak. Rhialto is just one example.


Rhinalto was easy to beat if you wait for him to wild magic himself to a squirrel.

I like this situation and was positive surprised of the solution. This is a situation which I wanted for a real roleplaying.

But there is a small problem. Not everybody like such solutions. I've seen, that the most BG players want to fight the enemies down and don't run away. This gamers reload and try it again and again to defeat their opponents. This does not go and that will frustrate them. (smeagolheart please don't care about this sentence. I think you are not such a gamer, because you don't come across with this early situation.)

In my opinion it is the best to make the fix of Elve to move this encounter to a later point in the game. So we get no many posts about this problem (which is not really a problem) from other gamers. The important thing in a game is, that a new gamer can play wide enough before the real problems comes. But not directly at the beginning.

But I'm not really agree that we moved the WildMage in the BG2 part of the game. Have someone an idea and fix for a better place for him in BG1?

Greetings Leomar
A Megamod does not mean that you can play all of the mods or all of their content,
but you have more choices or paths through the game.
- Chevalier

BiG World Project - Big Baldur's Gate World

#23 Azazello

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 02:55 PM

But there is a small problem. Not everybody like such solutions. I've seen, that the most BG players want to fight the enemies down and don't run away. This gamers reload and try it again and again to defeat their opponents. This does not go and that will frustrate them.

In my opinion it is the best to make the fix of Elve to move this encounter to a later point in the game. So we get no many posts about this problem (which is not really a problem) from other gamers. The important thing in a game is, that a new gamer can play wide enough before the real problems comes. But not directly at the beginning.

But I'm not really agree that we moved the WildMage in the BG2 part of the game. Have someone an idea and fix for a better place for him in BG1?

It's doesn't take lots of reloads to win the battle, although it might take more than one! And no player of BiG World is going to complain about reloading...

Still, wherever Rhialto is moved, it's important to remember that the spellbook contains even Level 1 spells, so you want the party to have access early in the game. Perhaps one of the wilderness areas? One were there is almost no real action, so it'll be interesting to have a new encounter, and surges won't affect innocents or encounter-important NPCs.

The fix is easy -- change this
//------------------------------------------------------
//		Mod-start in Baldur.BCS
//------------------------------------------------------
EXTEND_TOP ~baldur.bcs~ ~WildMage/0/baf/BALDUR_ADD.BAF~
EXTEND_TOP ~baldur25.bcs~ ~WildMage/0/baf/BALDUR_ADD.BAF~
to this
//------------------------------------------------------
//		Mod-start in AR????.BCS
//------------------------------------------------------
EXTEND_TOP ~AR????.bcs~ ~WildMage/0/baf/BALDUR_ADD.BAF~

Better: this new code won't sit in Baldur.bcs wasting precious CPU cycles.

#24 Leomar

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 03:20 PM

Still, wherever Rhialto is moved, it's important to remember that the spellbook contains even Level 1 spells, so you want the party to have access early in the game. Perhaps one of the wilderness areas? One were there is almost no real action, so it'll be interesting to have a new encounter, and surges won't affect innocents or encounter-important NPCs.

Thanks for your help Azazello.
I think I try to contact the mod-author to explain him our situation and ask for a solution.

Greetings Leomar
A Megamod does not mean that you can play all of the mods or all of their content,
but you have more choices or paths through the game.
- Chevalier

BiG World Project - Big Baldur's Gate World

#25 smeagolheart

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 09:07 PM

Yeah I don't mind that he's there in BG1 in general, I just don't want him forced on me when I rest the first time, if there is a way to make him appear in Nashkel and you go up and talk to him or whatever that would be better.

When you rest the first time, you likely need to heal and are out of spells you shouldn't be ambushed with no dialogue options other than "hey I'm going to attack cause I'm crazy!"

#26 -JOG-

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Posted 01 May 2008 - 11:22 PM

The mod creator himself writes -- in the ReadMe -- that Rhialto can be beaten, quite easily, with a L1 player. I've done it, and it works. Easy, and kind of funny too!


!Just cause the mod maker says he can be beaten easily is no reason for him to be there ambushing you on your first rest.

Actually it's your first rest in the wilderness after leaving Candlekeep. And well, Rhialto really really really needs that spleen for his spell... :D


Imagine this: gorion has just been killed, imoen walked up and said hello and you want to rest to get the damage from sarevok's goons flame arrow spell healed and this modmaker's "brilliant idea" shows up with a L15 (or whateveR) wildmage ambush on your first rest.

Your father just died to give you a chance to escape, you meet your foster-sister and tell her the horrible news, and the first thing that comes to your mind now is how nice it'd be to take a nap? Well, most of my chars would try to get outa here, probably first trying to get back to Candlekeep then hit the road in the direction Gorion suggested, and stumble upon a somewhat curious couple of travellers... It's just my bad influence as a player that makes my chars search the area for loot and experience first...


You don't even have to rest then, anytime you rest in the beginning you are pretty much helpless weakling for a while and likely resting because you are hurt or out of spells. I shouldn't rest at all until I am mentally/spatially prepared to get ambushed? Bah

Well, actually no, you shouldn't be prepared for ambush by an overpowering mad mage, but a char that won't run away in such a situation isn't very likely to have much use for the spellbook anyway. Alas such chars are very unlikely to rest outside in the first place. The mod wasn't intended to be part of a package for everyone, if you installed it separately with the intention to play a wild mage/spellshaper (and read the readme) you'd know what to expect.

Actually Rhialto gets even harder on higher levels, because it takes longer until he has his little accident.


To me it's not fun to kill him the only way possible at this point which is running away from him until he kills himself probably by polymorphing into a squirrel.

Fair enough. I thought it a fun way to give you the spellbook but there are always other means.
Simply edit the part added to Baldur.baf to suit your taste better:

//-------------------------------
// After Resting: Rhialto appears
//-------------------------------

IF
	Global("wm_start","GLOBAL",0)
	GlobalGT("Chapter","GLOBAL",0)
	Partyrested()
	AreaType(OUTDOOR)
THEN
	RESPONSE #100
		ActionOverride(Player1,Createcreature("wm_rhia1",[-1.-1],0)) 
		SetGlobal("wm_start","GLOBAL",1)
END

So change the chapter, make him appear in a specific location, or just drop the spellbook (wm_sbook) instead of creating the creature, it's all up to you...

#27 -JOG-

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 12:43 AM

Of course when someone wants to make a nice quest mod with a (somewhat) reasonable Rhialto insisting on you being his new apprentice (or even better: his familiar....) Go ahead! :rolleyes:

For the time being I think waiting until you enter Nashkel (Chapter > 1) should be fine enough. But remember that Rhialto gets ever harder the higher your level: his accident hapens after 4 rounds at first level, after 7 rounds at level 2-4 and after 11 rounds at level 5-9. At the start of BG2 it's actually very unlikely that he turns into a squirrel before the fight is over.

Also some of Rhialto's spells are much more effective when you have a full party, I have my doubts that a full level 5 party can survive the encounter without heavy casualties.

You could also follow my original intention, and don't make Rhialto show up unless there is a wild mage in the party. If the PC himself is a mage he should be either smart enough to run away or too arrogant/nobbish to sleep outside a comfy bed.

#28 Leomar

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 12:55 AM

So change the chapter, make him appear in a specific location, or just drop the spellbook (wm_sbook) instead of creating the creature, it's all up to you...

Hello JOG,

thanks that you come in to give us your opinion.

You have created this encounter and this is your idea of roleplaying. I and some others love this idea, but others will hate this. That's why we want to find a solution, that fits for both groups of gamers. It is your mod and my first reason is, that you and we find a solution for your mod. If you find this arguments important and want to change something, it is better as we made a fix and much of the gamers don't get it. If you have planned a new mod-version for the future, it could be better, if you implement this new option. But if you don't want to change your mod about this, all is fine and we try to find a good solution for your mod in the BiG World Project.
How do you think about that?

Greetings Leomar
A Megamod does not mean that you can play all of the mods or all of their content,
but you have more choices or paths through the game.
- Chevalier

BiG World Project - Big Baldur's Gate World

#29 Leomar

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 01:02 AM

smeagolheart and Hoppy

For "Unique Artifacts" have you used the fix like mentioned in the guide:

23.7.1. Copy the folder UniqueArtifacts and the files Setup-UniqueArtifacts.exe and Setup-UniqueArtifacts.
tp2 into your ... \BGII - SoA\ directory.
23.7.2. Replace immediately before the installation of the mod the file kit.ids in the direcctory ...\override
with this one of the same name from the folder BiG World Fixpack\expanded ids files.
Because this patch cannot be installed before, this will not be done by the BiG World Fixpack.bat,
but by the BiG World Install.bat.


Have you had errors during the installation of "Unique Artifacts"?

Greetings Leomar
A Megamod does not mean that you can play all of the mods or all of their content,
but you have more choices or paths through the game.
- Chevalier

BiG World Project - Big Baldur's Gate World

#30 smeagolheart

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 01:50 AM

I ran the big world fixpack before install, would that have done it? I didn't manually do it.

#31 -JOG-

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 05:29 AM

So change the chapter, make him appear in a specific location, or just drop the spellbook (wm_sbook) instead of creating the creature, it's all up to you...

You have created this encounter and this is your idea of roleplaying. I and some others love this idea, but others will hate this.


The whole purpose of this encounter is to give you the spellbook, other mods simply add the item to your inventory. I guess the scene could be completely scripted but then there would be those whose chars would charge and those whose chars would run away and finally those who would offer Rhialto Imoen's spleen if he takes them as apprentice (and then kill him at night and take his stuff.)

That's why we want to find a solution, that fits for both groups of gamers.

You can't be everybody's darling.

It wouldn't make much sense if Rhialto were an appropriate-level encounter, he designed his own custom 11th level spell after all.

If you just present the player with the spellbook and the teddy bear, (free loot, scripted encounter etc.) some players may be annoyed.

Of course you could add the book automatically to a wild mage, but then the comments about Rhialto's mental state within the book would be a bit confusing.


If you have planned a new mod-version for the future, it could be better, if you implement this new option.

There may be other updates (last one was about 5 weeks ago) but I doubt that I change the Rhialto encounter. For my mod a warning that it's a bad idea to sleep in the Wilderness early on should be enough.

As for your mod, I don't know, many solutions are possible:

Just place the book somewhere?
Test for Chapter 2 instead of 1?
Disable Rhialto's auto-greeting and just make him stand around and attack when you talk to him?
Generate him in a fixed area (with or without testing on rest)?
Make him a merchant who sells those books to earn enough money to buy one of those famous tarrasque-spleens?

#32 Hoppy

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 05:30 AM

I manually installed BWP except I did not install every mod. So I do not know if my installation can be used for a good comparison for other BWP.

The IDS was used but in both of the areas that got corrupted (AR9200 and AR8100) there was a backup file for AR9200 in the UA folder that was fine. Unfortunately there was not a backup for AR8100 in the UA folder. What happened to both areas was that all ambient sounds were cleaned out and would have only one ambient sound. Instead of Ocean1-Ocean25 for ambient sounds, it would say just ring23 in one ambient slot (AR9200). For AR8100 the problem was nearly identical so I used a backup from my BGT backup spot in the installation.

Maybe I messed something up by leaving out mods, but it sounds like others had a similar problem along the same lines. I have not had any other crashes due to this. Also here is a link to my thread with Weidu with a copy of the error log from DLTCEP regarding AR9200.
Hoppy's New Game With Weidu



The installation did not like something here:
[action list near line 107, column 2 of ANDRIS.DLG] PARSE WARNING at line 108 column 8-8
Near Text: )
	syntax error
WARNING: cannot verify action ~ActionOverride("Beyn",SetGlobal("DMWWAndrisHostile","GLOBAL",1)
Enemy())
ActionOverride("Marcel",SetGlobal("DMWWAndrisHostile","GLOBAL",1)
Enemy())
SetGlobal("DMWWAndrisHostile","GLOBAL",1)
Enemy()
~: Parsing.Parse_error

[action list near line 118, column 2 of ANDRIS.DLG] PARSE WARNING at line 119 column 8-8
Near Text: )
	syntax error
WARNING: cannot verify action ~ActionOverride("Beyn",SetGlobal("DMWWAndrisHostile","GLOBAL",1)
Enemy())
ActionOverride("Marcel",SetGlobal("DMWWAndrisHostile","GLOBAL",1)
Enemy())
SetGlobal("DMWWAndrisHostile","GLOBAL",1)
Enemy()
~: Parsing.Parse_error

Edited by Hoppy, 02 May 2008 - 05:48 AM.

?May God defend me from my friends; I can defend myself from my enemies.? - Voltaire

"If you think that a size of the mod indicates an amount of bugs that it introduces and their severity you're totally wrong...
Try not to use next time a load of shitty "super-mega-improving-tweaking-revising" small mods that you have installed and try to meet Wulfgar once again."
- King Diamond


Posted Image The Definitive Guide to Trolls

"Finding food and a place to sleep is your own business. I imagine Paul the Cat should have some fun with you, too" - Potencius in The Darkest Day
"You have been warned, little bastard!" -Khelben to a young <CHARNAME>in Check the Bodies
There are those who will snivel, and offer nothing in return except criticism, meanwhile never lifting a finger to do other than to cut other peoples labor down simply for the fact that they lack the capability to put anything of their own together. -erebusant

#33 Leomar

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 11:52 AM

I ran the big world fixpack before install, would that have done it? I didn't manually do it.

By your installation was all fine. The kit.ids was fixed with the install.bat and you used this Batch-File.
But therefore you have had all the CTDs... :blink:
It could be, that the problem is not really fixed with the kit.ids.

Greetings Leomar
A Megamod does not mean that you can play all of the mods or all of their content,
but you have more choices or paths through the game.
- Chevalier

BiG World Project - Big Baldur's Gate World

#34 Leomar

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 12:08 PM

The whole purpose of this encounter is to give you the spellbook, other mods simply add the item to your inventory. I guess the scene could be completely scripted but then there would be those whose chars would charge and those whose chars would run away and finally those who would offer Rhialto Imoen's spleen if he takes them as apprentice (and then kill him at night and take his stuff.)
You can't be everybody's darling.

That's right. It is only for those gamers, they could be get frustrated direct in the beginning of the game.

There may be other updates (last one was about 5 weeks ago) but I doubt that I change the Rhialto encounter. For my mod a warning that it's a bad idea to sleep in the Wilderness early on should be enough.

That is what I want to know. It is your mod and your encounter. The idea is great. The warning will be the best solution for all. In addition we write a warning in our guide, too and don't change your encounter.

Greetings Leomar
A Megamod does not mean that you can play all of the mods or all of their content,
but you have more choices or paths through the game.
- Chevalier

BiG World Project - Big Baldur's Gate World

#35 Leomar

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 12:27 PM

I manually installed BWP except I did not install every mod. So I do not know if my installation can be used for a good comparison for other BWP.

It's O.k. Each opinion or advice could be very helpful.

Maybe I messed something up by leaving out mods, but it sounds like others had a similar problem along the same lines. I have not had any other crashes due to this. Also here is a link to my thread with Weidu with a copy of the error log from DLTCEP regarding AR9200.
Hoppy's New Game With Weidu

I've follow your thread since the beginning. I like such threads. So we can help us together.
Leonardo will look into it and we must decide what we do with UA.

Our opinion:
UA is a very useful mod in such a MegaMod to get the game balanced. We want to use it in a megamod. But if they cause to much CTDs and there are no fixes out there, the best is we not install it until it is fixed.
What is your opinion about UA at the moment?

Greetings Leomar
A Megamod does not mean that you can play all of the mods or all of their content,
but you have more choices or paths through the game.
- Chevalier

BiG World Project - Big Baldur's Gate World

#36 Hoppy

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 01:18 PM

Leomar,
I like the UA by Gort and this installation was a better install for that mod. When I tried the initial BWP (4.x) the UA came up with a lot of errors and I left it out. I am not sure how UA is editing and then copying the areas into the override. It does this with scripts and dialog too, so it can be a lot of work for the install in a large megamod. Unfortunately, when that area gets corrupted, the faulty area is then biffed making things hard to find what went wrong if no backups are made.
?May God defend me from my friends; I can defend myself from my enemies.? - Voltaire

"If you think that a size of the mod indicates an amount of bugs that it introduces and their severity you're totally wrong...
Try not to use next time a load of shitty "super-mega-improving-tweaking-revising" small mods that you have installed and try to meet Wulfgar once again."
- King Diamond


Posted Image The Definitive Guide to Trolls

"Finding food and a place to sleep is your own business. I imagine Paul the Cat should have some fun with you, too" - Potencius in The Darkest Day
"You have been warned, little bastard!" -Khelben to a young <CHARNAME>in Check the Bodies
There are those who will snivel, and offer nothing in return except criticism, meanwhile never lifting a finger to do other than to cut other peoples labor down simply for the fact that they lack the capability to put anything of their own together. -erebusant

#37 Leomar

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 03:54 PM

Leomar,
I like the UA by Gort and this installation was a better install for that mod. When I tried the initial BWP (4.x) the UA came up with a lot of errors and I left it out. I am not sure how UA is editing and then copying the areas into the override. It does this with scripts and dialog too, so it can be a lot of work for the install in a large megamod. Unfortunately, when that area gets corrupted, the faulty area is then biffed making things hard to find what went wrong if no backups are made.

Thanks for your response.
We will see what happens with UA.
Do you know if the modauthor is still active?

Greetings Leomar
A Megamod does not mean that you can play all of the mods or all of their content,
but you have more choices or paths through the game.
- Chevalier

BiG World Project - Big Baldur's Gate World

#38 Leonardo Watson

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Posted 02 May 2008 - 09:02 PM

I manually installed BWP except I did not install every mod. So I do not know if my installation can be used for a good comparison for other BWP.

The IDS was used but in both of the areas that got corrupted (AR9200 and AR8100) there was a backup file for AR9200 in the UA folder that was fine. Unfortunately there was not a backup for AR8100 in the UA folder. What happened to both areas was that all ambient sounds were cleaned out and would have only one ambient sound. Instead of Ocean1-Ocean25 for ambient sounds, it would say just ring23 in one ambient slot (AR9200). For AR8100 the problem was nearly identical so I used a backup from my BGT backup spot in the installation.

Maybe I messed something up by leaving out mods, but it sounds like others had a similar problem along the same lines. I have not had any other crashes due to this. Also here is a link to my thread with Weidu with a copy of the error log from DLTCEP regarding AR9200.
Hoppy's New Game With Weidu



The installation did not like something here:

[action list near line 107, column 2 of ANDRIS.DLG] PARSE WARNING at line 108 column 8-8
Near Text: )
	syntax error
WARNING: cannot verify action ~ActionOverride("Beyn",SetGlobal("DMWWAndrisHostile","GLOBAL",1)
Enemy())
ActionOverride("Marcel",SetGlobal("DMWWAndrisHostile","GLOBAL",1)
Enemy())
SetGlobal("DMWWAndrisHostile","GLOBAL",1)
Enemy()
~: Parsing.Parse_error

[action list near line 118, column 2 of ANDRIS.DLG] PARSE WARNING at line 119 column 8-8
Near Text: )
	syntax error
WARNING: cannot verify action ~ActionOverride("Beyn",SetGlobal("DMWWAndrisHostile","GLOBAL",1)
Enemy())
ActionOverride("Marcel",SetGlobal("DMWWAndrisHostile","GLOBAL",1)
Enemy())
SetGlobal("DMWWAndrisHostile","GLOBAL",1)
Enemy()
~: Parsing.Parse_error

The BiG World Install batch file copies a fixed file ANDRIS.DLG after installing SCS that prevents the "DMWWAndrisHostile" error. Unfortunately this is not mentioned in the guide. Sorry. I will add it.