30 replies to this topic

[Hoppy]

This is incredible. A search on this subforum only shows like five or six threads with AR1900 in them. I've been playing MP with a buddy on a large install (probably 1/5 to 1/4 the size of the BiG World list) and just a few minutes ago she informed me that in singleplayer she crashes while trying to load that area. What timing!

Game On!! Don't we all wish it was always that easy?
I am just glad it wasn't super complex

[Leonardo Watson]

Since com_encounters brings his own cre files (instead of patching them), I wouldn't recommend installing it on a megamod.

What's about installing this mod before all the others as it was already suggested earlier?

[Taimon]

What's about installing this mod before all the others as it was already suggested earlier?

This would probably make matters worse here, if you don't modify the CREs installed by this mod.
I'll explain later, when I get home.

[Hoppy]

Since com_encounters brings his own cre files (instead of patching them), I wouldn't recommend installing it on a megamod.

What's about installing this mod before all the others as it was already suggested earlier?

CoM was before a lot of mods in the installation process already, in this case when SCSII came after, the two mods didn't like each other. It sounds like a TP2 edit may create a better compatibility.

[Taimon]

How would that look in the TP2 change for CoM? Just so that I have a better idea of what you mean.

It's easier to "fix" the CRE's directly, but let me first describe the problem in more detail.

You need to know some basic things about the file formats used by the Infinity Engine.
For example, lets take a CRE file. Among many other things, it stores some lists, like the list of items the creature is using or what spells it has memorized. These lists are stored by specifying the start of the list (relative to the start of the file) and also how many entries that list has. (Thanks to the IESDP, the modder knows how long each entry of the list is.)
So when I talk about the effects offset, I'm just referring to the start of the effects list. These list offsets and lengths are stored at a know position in the beginning of the file (in the header).

When a mod wants to add an entry to the list, it locates the start of the list, inserts the new entry and increments the number of entries in the list. (It actually does some other stuff as well, but I'll skip that here.)

Now imagine the following: the list of effects is empty (number of entries = 0, so it uses 0 bytes in the file). It doesn't really matter, where in the file the list starts, since it's empty, right? So lets just start it at the beginning of the file. (This is what I mean, when I say the effects offset is zeroed.)
Well, if thereafter some other mod decides to add an effect, it's going to do what?
It inserts the new effect at the start of the list. But the start of the list is the start of the file, so this insertion is probably going to mess up our file header, rendering the CRE unusable.

It's more of a general problem. When mods add entries to the list, they should really check if the list starts at a sane value in the file. (Sane value means after the file header and before the end of the file, and not inside some other structure in the file.)

To fix this we have multiple options:

• Edit the CRE's manually (change effects offset to some sane value)
  
• Edit the TP2, to fix those CRE's when COPYing them
  
• Completely rewrite the TP2 so that it patches the CRE's instead of copying them
  
• Get all other mods to do sanity checks before adding entries to lists

I admit that options 3 and 4 are a bit unrealistic.

[DavidWallace]

It's difficult to decide who is to blame. (CoM encounters for shipping creature files with a zeroed eff. offset or the mods patching that creature file for simply using the offset without checking whether it is zero or not.)

Call me lazy but life is a bit too short to check whether some other mod has broken a creature file (as opposed to making legit changes in it).

[erebusant]

How would that look in the TP2 change for CoM? Just so that I have a better idea of what you mean.

It's easier to "fix" the CRE's directly, but let me first describe the problem in more detail.

You need to know some basic things about the file formats used by the Infinity Engine.
For example, lets take a CRE file. Among many other things, it stores some lists, like the list of items the creature is using or what spells it has memorized. These lists are stored by specifying the start of the list (relative to the start of the file) and also how many entries that list has. (Thanks to the IESDP, the modder knows how long each entry of the list is.)
So when I talk about the effects offset, I'm just referring to the start of the effects list. These list offsets and lengths are stored at a know position in the beginning of the file (in the header).

When a mod wants to add an entry to the list, it locates the start of the list, inserts the new entry and increments the number of entries in the list. (It actually does some other stuff as well, but I'll skip that here.)

Now imagine the following: the list of effects is empty (number of entries = 0, so it uses 0 bytes in the file). It doesn't really matter, where in the file the list starts, since it's empty, right? So lets just start it at the beginning of the file. (This is what I mean, when I say the effects offset is zeroed.)
Well, if thereafter some other mod decides to add an effect, it's going to do what?
It inserts the new effect at the start of the list. But the start of the list is the start of the file, so this insertion is probably going to mess up our file header, rendering the CRE unusable.

It's more of a general problem. When mods add entries to the list, they should really check if the list starts at a sane value in the file. (Sane value means after the file header and before the end of the file, and not inside some other structure in the file.)

To fix this we have multiple options:

• Edit the CRE's manually (change effects offset to some sane value)
  
• Edit the TP2, to fix those CRE's when COPYing them
  
• Completely rewrite the TP2 so that it patches the CRE's instead of copying them
  
• Get all other mods to do sanity checks before adding entries to lists

I admit that options 3 and 4 are a bit unrealistic.

Well color me Mr. Unrealistic then, because I've already re-written the CoM .tp2 (plus a bunch of others) so it patches instead of overwrites. I guess it stems from just wanting to play a mod without completely breaking your game. Unfortunately, I haven't had any luck getting a response from the mod authors, even though they're still active, so the changes aren't really anything i'm comfortable releasing for the general public.

[Taimon]

Call me lazy but life is a bit too short to check whether some other mod has broken a creature file (as opposed to making legit changes in it).

Now how the heck did you find that thread?
Since Bioware did not use zeroed offsets when the list is empty, you are probably right, when you say the creature file is somehow broken. (Although the game engine has no problem with it.)

Well color me Mr. Unrealistic then, because I've already re-written the CoM .tp2 (plus a bunch of others) so it patches instead of overwrites. I guess it stems from just wanting to play a mod without completely breaking your game. Unfortunately, I haven't had any luck getting a response from the mod authors, even though they're still active, so the changes aren't really anything i'm comfortable releasing for the general public.

Good to know, must have been a lot of work.
It's odd that the authors don't respond, when you are actually trying to help them.

[Leomar]

[Well color me Mr. Unrealistic then, because I've already re-written the CoM .tp2 (plus a bunch of others) so it patches instead of overwrites. I guess it stems from just wanting to play a mod without completely breaking your game. Unfortunately, I haven't had any luck getting a response from the mod authors, even though they're still active, so the changes aren't really anything i'm comfortable releasing for the general public.

I've made a new topic in com forums to let the author know, that we have a problem with his mod, too.
http://forums.chosen...hp?topic=1230.0

Greetings Leomar

Edited by Leomar, 20 May 2008 - 02:53 AM.

[Leomar]

I've made a new topic in com forums to let the author know, that we have a problem with his mod, too.
http://forums.chosen...hp?topic=1230.0

There are some news of Dark Raven in the CoM forum.

Greetings Leomar