8 replies to this topic

[Zyraen]

I used to think that doing the proper thing - Ritual Scroll, go out, tell Odren to come in, and then using Helm Ritual Scroll, was the way to the best XP... and it suited my Good Character.

But that being said, I think when I did my last run with an Evil Party Wow this way is much better in XP...

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I think I must have killed Demogorgon a tad too fast last time I ran, I killed him before he could summon up anything other than the 2 Mariliths he started with. This time however, I had a field day

Read Ritual Scroll, then just camp and kill Glabrezus, until I got sick of getting 12K per kill. Then I killed Demogorgon for even more XP.

Now this is the best part, I guess being the Evil Party I was, I went out and then first positioned my thieves upstairs behind some of the knights, stealthed. The rest of my party went up, I agreed to let him go (+1 Rep but I didn't want that, I liked the XP more). Then after that, before they could disappear, I massacred them with backstabs, stunning effects etc more XP.

Finally, if you pause the game, you can summon in the Helm Scroll and read it to seal the now-empty-dungeon for more XP.

Evil wins! Yes I know that includes a little game exploit...

But its so shameless that I really much preferred an ending like that that's more climactic than just waving a few hands and completing Watcher's Keep. I'd much rather remember killing Demogorgon as the finale rather than the Marilith-Hive Tyrant-Hunter-Kensai-Drow-Succubus tag-team on level 5.

Edited by Zyraen, 24 April 2008 - 10:02 PM.

[Icendoan]

You could probably fix that easily, though. Nice for spotting it.

Icen

[Deathsangel]

Doesn't sound broken to me... abide from the cheating, but what ya gonna do?

[Trick]

I was wondering about that. The battle is a nice challenge, and you're rewarded with 100,000 quest XP, but in fact, the demon just goes back to the Abyss and enjoys life (he's not destroyed), instead of suffering as a prisoner.
The Watcher Keep's purpose is to hold Demogorgon in chains, and make him suffer, that was the will of Helm.
If you "kill" him, you free him, and it's been explained to you in the game. And the Keep becomes a useless building.
On the other hand, you're very powerful at this point, a Bhaal-child, and using a scroll is the coward's way.
Plus: when you fight Demogorgon, you're trying to help the Helmites who deceived you instead of sealing them in the keep along with the demon.
Proposition:
Good -> try to rescue the Helmites, and to rid the plane of the demon -> you fight
Neutral -> do as Helm says, just seal the whole keep
Evil -> go along with Demogorgon, and then seal the keep (you don't care about Helmites and you don't know if you must be Demogorgon's friend; maybe he's an enemy of Bhaal) OR fight Demogorgon just for glory

[Cal Jones]

The actual "Good" way to do it is to use the ritual scroll, persuade Demogorgon to let you out, then tell Odren the truth - that Demogorgon wanted you to lie to the fallen Helmites, but you're not going to do that. The XP rewards are lower but you get +1 rep, everyone survives and the demon remains imprisoned. I usually do this now because, after playing through ToB umpteen times, I can no longer be bothered to fight Demogorgon and his stupid summoned demons (and it's not like you really need the XP as you level so fast anyway).

Max XP way - use the scroll, persuade Demogorgon to let you leave. Don't tell the Helmites that Demogorgon's still alive, leaving them to go into the keep to check. Use the second scroll, then find the teeny tiny crack in the door that lets you back into Demogorgon's lair anyway. Kill him, then leave.

Edited by Cal Jones, 26 September 2009 - 10:37 AM.

[Trick]

The actual "Good" way to do it is to use the ritual scroll, persuade Demogorgon to let you out, then tell Odren the truth - that Demogorgon wanted you to lie to the fallen Helmites, but you're not going to do that. The XP rewards are lower but you get +1 rep, everyone survives and the demon remains imprisoned.

That's right, and I even hadn't seen it. It makes things more obvious. Thanks. And I didn't realise either you can seal Demogorgon and then fight him anyway for max XP (a little exploit, I guess).

But on second thought...
The Helmites did lie to you, and Demogorgon was fair with you, until now. You were dead, he saved you. So it's not that clear you owe more loyalty to Helmites. Of course, when they repent, it seems you did the right thing. But what about the poor Demogorgon?, he helps you and you seal him! His hatred for you must be enormous after that.
Another thing unclear: what does Demogorgon want, except revenge? The spell having been reinforced, it's clear he's not escaping soon. His "tithe" is the Helmites. Maybe if he gets that, he's OK with your sealing him again?
And if he gets his revenge, and you kill him, that is, free him, that's very good for him. In fact, he should let you kill him without fighting back, so that he goes back to the Abyss for a happy life...

Then there's another possibility I have just tried:
When you ask what other ways out there are, Demogorgon says by killing him. If you do that (without him opening a crack), the seals disappear like he predicted, and you have yet another dialogue with the Helmites (they say putting him in the Abyss was as good as freedom for him), Rep+1 and 50,000 quest XP.

Oh! And I like how Anomen says there's no evil presence in the room!

Edited by Trick, 27 September 2009 - 08:08 AM.

[Trick]

I happened to revisit the place and did it another way:
Despite Demogorgon's fair warning, you read the scroll. You hear his proposal but prefer the fighting option to his devious plan. Then when you go back to the Helmites, you refuse to forgive them, and that's another fight. You don't get final quest XP this way.
What surprised me was how tough that bunch was. Don't think, just because you sent Demogorgon back to the Abyss, that this fight against ill-equipped Helmites will be easy, it won't. But that's satisfying.

[Vherdel]

I usually attack demogorgon on sight, and after I freed him ( wich owns ) I go and kill the helmites because the fools thought they could use me.
I always takes the path that has me kill as many as possible.

[billymas2005]

The actual "Good" way to do it is to use the ritual scroll, persuade Demogorgon to let you out, then tell Odren the truth - that Demogorgon wanted you to lie to the fallen Helmites, but you're not going to do that. The XP rewards are lower but you get +1 rep, everyone survives and the demon remains imprisoned. I usually do this now because, after playing through ToB umpteen times, I can no longer be bothered to fight Demogorgon and his stupid summoned demons (and it's not like you really need the XP as you level so fast anyway).

Max XP way - use the scroll, persuade Demogorgon to let you leave. Don't tell the Helmites that Demogorgon's still alive, leaving them to go into the keep to check. Use the second scroll, then find the teeny tiny crack in the door that lets you back into Demogorgon's lair anyway. Kill him, then leave.

erm.....what do you mean by "the teeny tiny crack in the door that lets you back into Demogorgon's lair"?
I have tried to use your method to do the quest,but i don't seem to find the access at the sealed door.
Pray tell,is it the doorway outside of watchers keep,or the doorway at 4th floor?