22 replies to this topic

[Zyraen]

Hidden Kits for BG2 v0.95 Beta
by Zyraen

This mod introduces a variety of Hidden Kits that are obtainable by Dual-Classing at level 12, from either a Fighter, Mage, or Cleric. The amount of XP required to achieve the Hidden Kit is considerable, but so are the advantages gained.

Apart from a few standard advantages and disadvantages within the Kit itself, most notably present in ALL the Hidden Kits is the ability to Increase your INACTIVE Class by one level every time you level up. This advantage grants players the enjoyment of being able to level up what is effectively a Mult-Class Character at about the rate of a Single-Class Character.

The concept was first applied in the Reaver and brought "live" in this mod. The full breakdown of Hidden Kits is as follows.

Spell Steel - Fighter -> Mage
Sylvan Warden - Fighter -> Druid
Shadow Blade - Fighter -> Thief
Eldritch Phantom - Mage -> Thief
Prelate - Fighter -> Cleric
Archmage - Cleric -> Mage
Sylvan Justicar - Cleric -> Ranger

Hidden Kits for Bioware NPCs

One drawback of almost all Kit mods is that they generally affect ONLY the custom made Character, typically, the PC. To this end, Components have been included that modify up to TWELVE Bioware Characters and make them Eligible for the Hidden Kits made available, 1 component for EACH Character. To have them take effect you have to start a NEW GAME after installing the components you wish to install.

Jaheira the Sylvan Warden
Yoshimo the Shadow Blade
Korgan the Shadow Blade
Jan the Eldritch Phantom
Imoen the Eldritch Phantom (after Spellhold)
Anomen the Prelate
Viconia the Prelate
Mazzy the Prelate, w/ Modified Items
Aerie the Archmage
Minsc the Sylvan Justicar
Valygar the Sylvan Justicar, w/ Modified Items
Sarevok the Spell Steel

Note however - they have been made ELIGIBLE but they do NOT start with the Kits. In some sense, compared to the Player it is much easier for them to obtain the Kit if the only requirement is to hit a certain Level or XP, so to that end, for EACH and EVERY NPC there are TWO requirements for them to receive the Hidden Kit.
1) have more than 1 Million XP in their Active Class
2) Complete a Particular Portion of a Particular (Default Bioware) Quest
If you complete the Quest BEFORE the NPC has the 1 Million XP, the NPC will make a Remark just as if the NPC gained it, but NPC will henceforth NEVER be able to obtain the Kit.

Links

Complete Readme - http://www.geocities...readmehidek.txt
Download - http://www.shsforums...mp;showfile=623

If the Bandwidth is maxed out, feel free to PM me to request for the File if you are interested in being a Beta Tester
With enough Beta Testers and few serious Bugs, I should be doing a v1.00 Release proper in about 1 month's time.

Edited by Zyraen, 15 April 2008 - 08:53 PM.

[Zyraen]

BTW, can also comment if the Dual Class requirement is too high ^^;; as well as the XP Penalties etc

[Jarno Mikkola]

I am hardly the best one to judge these things but...

...

Wow. OK, so I didn't try all of them, but the one I did(Archmage), felt a little overpowered, and that's not a small task for me to admit... I cheated around to see everything the kit had, and the mechanics seemed fine and working like a clock work, but you might want to extend the experience penalty on the leveling a little more, at least for the Archmage cause he gains a whole cleric level(225,000 XP, at the end of the table) on the cost of just 67,500 XP and the Cleric's HLA + the over night costs(sleeping). Not to say that it's a bad trade but a little too, lucrative shall we say, but then again I don't know how much the sleeping penalties will amount to, so...

But thank you for making these kits, I'll certainly will use some of them.

BTW, can also comment if the Dual Class requirement is too high ^^;; as well as the XP Penalties etc

Well, the level 12 is ok in my book, don't go any higher, and if you lower it much, you might have adjust the XP penalty a bit too, at least for the low levels. But if you make it more adjustive to the level, it might be better. Like say for levels 10-15 it's 50,000 XP per level, level 15-20 75,000 XP per level, and then 20-50 100,000 XP per level. This is just a ruff estimate... and I'll hate them in the end...

[Zyraen]

Actuall, regardless of whether you are level 14 going to 15 OR level 37 going to 38, the BG2 XPLEVEL.2DA indicates that the SAME amt of XP is required to advance your level.

That's why its constant throughout. That being said, if everyone is cool with this perhaps I could have it this way -
Lvl 13 - 22 : 15% XP Penalty
Lvl 23 - 32 : 30% XP Penalty
Lvl 33 - 40 : 45% XP Penalty

What do you guys think ? This makes advancement faster in SoA but slower in ToB

[Jarno Mikkola]

Actually, regardless of whether you are level 14 going to 15 OR level 37 going to 38, the BG2 XPLEVEL.2DA indicates that the SAME amt of XP is required to advance your level.

Yes I know that, as it starts from the level 9 to 10 the stable growth for (fighter, rangers, paladins, clerics, barbarians), and for (mages, bards, rogues) it's from the level 11 to 12.

And well, the 30% and 45% is quite steep, so I would suggest 25% and 35% instead, but the levels are ok, if it's done like this.
So this would give -
Lvl 13 - 22 : 15% XP Penalty
Lvl 23 - 32 : 25% XP Penalty
Lvl 33 - 40 : 35% XP Penalty

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 09 April 2008 - 08:29 AM.

[Zyraen]

Off the Side Note, in terms of Eventual Power level, it seems the Hidden Kits are not too even. Here's the approximate Ranking I estimate based on my own Gameplay - yes I started a game just to test these classes. Honestly, I'm loving it

1) Archmage - the most powerful of all, with Perm Improved Alacrity and with right gear (Robe of Vecna, Amulet of Power, etc). However prone to requiring Rest to optimise usage, leading to XP Losses.
2) Spell Steel - so far the showing has not been fantastic with this class. the Penalties are irritating without Arcane Armor. Pretty strong though, with Arcane Armor, being able to tank like over 12 Amnish Centurions (Prot Magic Weapons FTW). Potential is there for fantastic AC while Spellcasting in late game, I need to hit really high levels to know.
3) Sylvan Justicar - getting a pair of +3 Weapons and a +3 Shooting Weapon early in the game. However power level drops the higher level you go.
4) Prelate - Pretty Good... especially if your Base Stats are not really that Fantastic. This F/C can hit hard, but the Ranged Disadvantage really makes you think twice about using Channel Holy Might unless your Prelate is a Frontliner.
5) Shadow Blade - in practice a strong combo but nothing fantastic over a F/T, until you get your HLAs which are long in coming
6) Sylvan Warden - again, nothing special without the HLA. Druid Spells are not incredible, but may be a lot more useful after taking Druidic Magic.
7) Eldritch Phantom - Hide? Seek? Down to it appears to be just some extra AC and Magical Resistance Bonuses

[Deathsangel]

Once again Zyraen, that Archmage can use Wish to act as if he has slept to regain his spells, which means no XP loss... people will use this trick. I still suggest a more regular script removing XP every in game 24 hours by a fixed number... That also isn't optimum, but I think it is better.

[Zyraen]

Anyone can use it its an in-game cheat, so to speak, and I see no reason to work around what Bioware saw fit to put in, despite it being so (in my opinion) obviously broken.

Edited by Zyraen, 10 April 2008 - 06:35 AM.

[Zyraen]

Now that I look at it coolly after I've woken up, actually it might be a way to go, moving forward. Perhaps every 12 hr interval ? But if you travel you lose the XP only when you arrive. Thoughts?

[Tassadar88]

I actually liked the per-sleep loss better. Can we have two install time options?

[Zyraen]

Sure, I doubt that would be too problematic for me to implement I guess. Here's some off the top of my head.

Possible Options
- Dual at Min Level 15
- Dual at Min Level 12
- Dual at Min Level 9 (Kit obtained ONLY at level 13)

XP Cost on Level Up
- Fixed at 30%
- Fixed at 20%
- Fixed at 10%
- Staggered - 15%,30%,45%
- Staggered - 15%,25%,35%

Continual XP Drain - 5K, 7.5K, 10K
- None
- XP Drain on Rest
- XP Drain every 12 hrs
- XP Drain every 24 hrs

Too complicated?

Edited by Zyraen, 10 April 2008 - 08:33 PM.

[Tassadar88]

It is easy to understand and will give a nice flexibility of choice, thanks

[Zyraen]

Kindly move this topic to the Hidden Kits forum and can make it go live This topic is basically all that is needed for now I guess.

[Zyraen]

Modifications made to the introduction to provide more details Download Link also included.

Off the side note, any feedback from Beta Testers?

Edited by Zyraen, 15 April 2008 - 08:59 PM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Too complicated?

NEVER!

[Zyraen]

Lol Preferences aside, no bugs, nothing?

[Tassadar88]

I tested for just some half an hour with the spell steel and it behaved as expected. (it was just the mechanics - level up, sleep, fight)

[Zyraen]

How about instead of 10-20-30-40% Magic Resistance, how about Eldritch Phantom gets a 10-20-30-40% chance to become Invisible when struck ? (while Obfuscation is on)

Or you prefer just Magic Resistance?
Or retain the Magic Resistance, and add a blanket 30% chance to disappear when struck? (obtainable say, at level 21? same time as Non-Detection occurs)

[Zyraen]

With RL and other Pursuits (namely of the opposite gender, lol) going on, I think I will have to treat this Hidden Kits release, v0.95, as more or less the Final Release version.

It is not noticeably Buggy, as far as I know from my own testing, and the XP Loss is reasonable, although IMO, almost negligible in slowing the advance and power of my Characters.

I'll probably let it remain as it is. Meantime, those who want to prevent XP lost on Resting, please feel free to PM me

[Devlinor]

OK, popping in a bit late here due to the fact that I lost my cable modem got fried and it took my ISP several months to get another one to me. And look what I missed, OY . I have not had a chance to try any of the stuff here yet. I have to do a complete reinstall of the mega mod since the surge that fried my modem also scragged my whole HD. I think that some of the hidden kits are great, but some of the restrictions seem to be severe. (case in point) ArchMage

Conduit HLA, gives -1 Casting Time, requires Extra Level 8 Spell. If Improved Alacrity HLA is memorised, Archmage gains permanent Improved Alacrity, but will have Physical attacks set permanently to 0, and takes an extra 40% damage on being hit by Melee or Missile attacks

Even a pure mage has at least one weapon that they can use proficiently if they are ambushed. And the extra 40% damage?! Is there a way to scale it a bit? Perhaps to 15 to 20% extra? And is there a way that they can have at least one Melee attack that they can use as a last ditch effort to avoid being compost? A staff perhaps, as their only weapon, since it can also function as a channel for some of their magics and is a bludgeoning weapon?


Spell Steel:

Arcane Armor :
- 1 use per day. gain 1 use at level 19, 25, 31
- lasts 12 hrs, undispellable
- sets AC to 1, with additional +1 AC bonus at level 16, 20, 25, 31
- whenever the caster is struck, it drains 1d4 Life unless a successful Save vs Spells is made
- at level 20, provides -1 to casting Speed while active

The only thing I would change here is to change the 1d4 to 1d2. Even at AC 1 (minus dex, Rings etc... ) when an ambush occurs it can spell death to a char if they have no armor on. Especially with archers and slinger going full tilt.

Sylvan Warder:

Advantages
- Fighter level progresses at one less than Druid level
- can choose 1 of the following 2 HLAs Melee Specialisation or Druidic Magic.
- Melee Specialisation gains +2 Thac0 and +7 Damage in Melee, but also receives penalties of -10 Thac0 in Missile
- Druidic Magic Specialisation gains -3 Casting Speed and permanent Improved Alacrity, but gains a permanent -7 Thac0

Is there a way to limit the hidden Kit to a single weapon that they can use proficiently? And then apply the -10 or a -7 to the Thac0 for all other weapons? I know about balance, and the need to keep it. I was a Dungeon Master for 9 years in the PnP game. However the AI in this game is anything but controlled. But the method of balance here is crippling. I can understand the missile reduction, but any character should be able to use a staff, or club with some proficiency. I have not tried any of them yet and maybe I will be surprized as to how they work. I now only play in BGT/BP mega installs so I may hit the hidden kit while in the early part of SoA, depending on the Mods that I install this time. I want to say thank you for this mod. I will give it a try. Could you PM me the Globals needed to remove the HP drain and anything else so I can test this out fully, before I go for a game from the beginning?

Devlinor